Not By Works

[hardsell]

If people are calling you legalistic you probably see what’s wrong with people more than what’s right with them.

It often seems the people who feel the need to dish out the most correction and ridicule are the ones who blame others for their own actions.

If we demand personal responsibility, but can’t embrace it for ourselves we are being hypocritical.

And yes, these words are for myself as well.

I try to always be open to correction in these forums.

But if we aren’t open to being taught, what’s the point of being here?

Are we really here just to agree with those who agree with us? And attack those who don’t? I hope not and I believe better about ourselves.

No, people are called legalistic because when they issue a call of accountability to other self professed Pastor and teachers, and those self professed pastors and teachers get upset.

Who are you to call me to be the man of God I say I am.!?!?! I should still be able to swear like sailor, even in Church and everyone should be thankful I am struggling just like them! so kiss off Legalistic pharisee.

See how silly that sounds?, it is silly, but that is the way of the Church right now.

I have many flaws and struggles with sin, everyone does. Yet I know I have the power of Christ in me to help me overcome what I struggle with.

The real issue here is spiritual maturity and the Church leader.

I have been very vocal on the call to accountability of 2 certain posters, because they have disclosed on their own to many on this chat board they are a Pastor and a teacher. If this is true then we would expect that such men of God would not so easily use or justify the use of profanity. As a minister of the Gospel you have been consecrated for a higher call. Things of the world should offends they way they offended Christ, The Book of Psalms even shows us this.

I see many self professing Christians that get upset and even jealous over fellow brothers and sisters that say, hey I am not using profanity anymore, man God helped get past that, and I did it by being strong in the Lord and the power of his might and renewing my mind tot he word of God about what should come out of my mouth.

You would think the jealous upset ones would take that and ask, wow, OK show me, but no sir. They call us legalistic and all sorts of vile foolishness and the best one is that we push sinless perfection.. WHY? you said it on a post last night.

They have not been taught how to gain victory or even truly understand their position & Identity in Christ. This is also where false humility and pride enter into the dynamic.

I cannot find anywhere in the Bible it says that after we are saved we remain the same, our spirits are made perfect, and we must renew our minds to the word of God and we should always be growing, especially if you are called, approved and validated by God for ministry.

You got leaders here justifying the use of Profanity even suggesting it is OK because Christ and Paul used it,when the context cannot be supported in their justification. Some of us other ministers are going to challenge this.

Those screaming we are judging them would not last a second working for Paul or even Jesus. Calling into accountability is not legalistic or judgement.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, people are called legalistic because when they issue a call of accountability to other self professed Pastor and teachers, and those self professed pastors and teachers get upset.

lol. Who is upset? Seems (And I am not the only one here) that your the only one who is upset. Every post of yours pretty much proves this.

for the umpteenth time, That is NOT why you are called legalistic. You claim to have read many posts. if you truly read the posts you say you have, you would see what all of us deem as legalistic. Confronting people for sin or perceived sin is not one of those examples..

 

[blue_ladybug]

Do you realize that you have spent the ENTIRE DAY harping on Dcon and others using foul language? It started this morning around 6 a.m. my time, and it's still going on now, at 5:05 p.m. my time...

 

[joefizz]

Good for you, you can cut and paste scripture....still stand by my comment....10 to 1 God is not offended at someone using BS in a sentence.....especially since it was not defined.........just assumed.....

BS=Big Sock,Broken Soap,Bull Snort,Bog Snakes,Bake Sugar,Breathe Steadily,hmmm pretty sure much can be "Assumed" from a few "Letters" Also let us not forget our dear Jewish friends here that say God's name as G-D out of respect to God thereby not saying his full name and in their view doing right by him so "assumptions" are very "Bad" better to "analyze"and "ask questions"not leap on something that may not even be there.

 

[hardsell]

Jesus lost his cool.. He called people names. He brandished a whip and may even have tried to use it on the money changer's in the temple.. Which begs the question, since Jesus WAS fully human and lost His temper on many occasions, was HE God's enemy? No, He wasn't..

EVERY ONE loses their temper from time to time. You do, I do, so does Dcon and everyone else here. If we become God's enemy just because we lose our temper and swear, then we are all doomed.. Good thing we're saved and have His forgiveness.

Simple words coming from a simple mind.. lol

There is a difference between righteous anger you described and a carnal mind ranting because pride is blocking anything from the spirit. Even harsher sounding but truth, this usually indicates the spirit is not in control of the man.

Proverbs says it this way:
Like a city that is broken into and without walls Is a man who has no control over his spirit.


The is nothing simple about your words or your mind, continue to use them as the Spirit guides you.


Context continues to be misapplied to defenses and justifications.

 

[Cee]

No, people are called legalistic because when they issue a call of accountability to other self professed Pastor and teachers, and those self professed pastors and teachers get upset.

Who are you to call me to be the man of God I say I am.!?!?! I should still be able to swear like sailor, even in Church and everyone should be thankful I am struggling just like them! so kiss off Legalistic pharisee.

See how silly that sounds?, it is silly, but that is the way of the Church right now.

I have many flaws and struggles with sin, everyone does. Yet I know I have the power of Christ in me to help me overcome what I struggle with.

The real issue here is spiritual maturity and the Church leader.

I have been very vocal on the call to accountability of 2 certain posters, because they have disclosed on their own to many on this chat board they are a Pastor and a teacher. If this is true then we would expect that such men of God would not so easily use or justify the use of profanity. As a minister of the Gospel you have been consecrated for a higher call. Things of the world should offends they way they offended Christ, The Book of Psalms even shows us this.

I see many self professing Christians that get upset and even jealous over fellow brothers and sisters that say, hey I am not using profanity anymore, man God helped get past that, and I did it by being strong in the Lord and the power of his might and renewing my mind tot he word of God about what should come out of my mouth.

You would think the jealous upset ones would take that and ask, wow, OK show me, but no sir. They call us legalistic and all sorts of vile foolishness and the best one is that we push sinless perfection.. WHY? you said it on a post last night.

They have not been taught how to gain victory or even truly understand their position & Identity in Christ. This is also where false humility and pride enter into the dynamic.

I cannot find anywhere in the Bible it says that after we are saved we remain the same, our spirits are made perfect, and we must renew our minds to the word of God and we should always be growing, especially if you are called, approved and validated by God for ministry.

You got leaders here justifying the use of Profanity even suggesting it is OK because Christ and Paul used it,when the context cannot be supported in their justification. Some of us other ministers are going to challenge this.

Those screaming we are judging them would not last a second working for Paul or even Jesus. Calling into accountability is not legalistic or judgement.

From what I can see the problem is you think everyone else is the problem. You want to correct everyone, but I have yet to see you take any yourself. If you don’t seek God about this, I doubt you’ll be here long.

 

[hardsell]

Take this to a mirror. and read it back to yourself and then take your own advice.

I have many times. I did so this morning in my God time.


This is why you gnash your teeth agaisnt me and rip your cloths and act out like a true pharisee.

I speak truth and it hardens your heart, I still sin and you will still sin, but you show me in the Bible where it says we have no power over sin or the things that entangle us and keep us from running our race with joy. Also show me in the Bible where it says we should stand still in our walk, accept we can not ever change everything, and we should never grow spiritually or there is cap to our maturity level with Christ and I will let this go. This is why you get upset with some of us, because you may not to grow up and out of what ever entangles you. You then pet yourself with verses showing who you were and not what you are in Christ.

Far to many people int eh body of Christ have been programmed to believe that even after salvation, they are a sinner that must continue to sin to be worthy of the sacrifice. Serial killers that have been interviewed use this same logic. If I am capable of love and life am I also capable of hurt and death?


Stop always pointing at others for your lack of ability to grow up spiritually, it is squarely on you.

The only Lack in the Body of Christ, is the lack of true revelation of God's Word.

 

[AllenW]

Do you realize that you have spent the ENTIRE DAY harping on Dcon and others using foul language? It started this morning around 6 a.m. my time, and it's still going on now, at 5:05 p.m. my time...

Who?
Me?
Wha?

 

[UnderGrace]

Hardsell,

I am really not into this line of discussion too much and I agree with some things you write but not all, however I really cannot see that the words BS, as an expletive warrants all this rancor, do you really find it that offensive?

You make assumptions about it coming from a carnal mind, that is something we really cannot know or judge on a discussion board.

There is a difference between righteous anger you described and a carnal mind ranting because pride is blocking anything from the spirit. Even harsher sounding but truth, this usually indicates the spirit is not in control of the man.

Proverbs says it this way:
Like a city that is broken into and without walls Is a man who has no control over his spirit.


The is nothing simple about your words or your mind, continue to use them as the Spirit guides you.


Context continues to be misapplied to defenses and justifications.

 

[preacher4truth]

Jesus lost his cool.. He called people names.Jesus WAS fully human and lost His temper on many occasions, was HE God's enemy? No, He wasn't..

Hmmm. That's demeaning, as if Jesus blew it, and we have to ask "Was HE God's enemy?"

lolzzzzz...

Jesus never "lost his cool" nor had he ever "lost his temper." This would be a work of the flesh, to be out of control.

They are unfortunate terms and are inaccurate.

His display showed his immutability and righteous indignation as YHWH, as witnessed in the OT, Revelation, Jude &c. To paint him in such a light as having "lost" his temper &c is myopic at the least.

 

[joefizz]

It is a b and an s.......unto the pure are all things pure, but unto the defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure.....don't ASSUME........

BS round 2 BS=Bible study(duh duh duh),Be Still,Back Slide,Blessed Saviour,Believing Shepherds,Brought Salvation,Begotten Son(It's good to be back here seriously this is quite amusing,hahaha)

 

[blue_ladybug]

Jesus had a carnal mind. He was fully human so He had ALL the human emotions. Pride, anger, envy, etc... He may not have acted on all of them, but He DID possess them..

Just because He was nicer about it doesn't mean that He couldn't have used stronger words like s**t, instead of "dung" or excrement. Who knows, maybe He did. The bible does not tell us about every single thing He did or said..

The words "dung" and "excrement" are in the bible. Dung refers to animal poop, and excrement refers to human waste. Oh, and the word "ass" is in the bible, also. In reference to a donkey, but it's also a reference to a body part.

Now give it a rest. You've been raving on and off all day about the atrocities of using harsh language to get through to people. You think pastors don't swear? I'll bet you 9 out of 10 of them swear like a sailor at home.. lol

There is a difference between righteous anger you described and a carnal mind ranting because pride is blocking anything from the spirit. Even harsher sounding but truth, this usually indicates the spirit is not in control of the man.

Proverbs says it this way:
Like a city that is broken into and without walls Is a man who has no control over his spirit.


The is nothing simple about your words or your mind, continue to use them as the Spirit guides you.


Context continues to be misapplied to defenses and justifications.

 

[preacher4truth]

Jesus had a carnal mind.

Wow. Unbelievable. You really need to stop. You're getting way out of control.

 

[joefizz]

BS round 3 (just for fun)BS= Bright SmartyPants!(Aka me!)

 

[TruthTalk]

And your own absolute and utterly cowardly silence on this issue would force John MacArthur, Voddie Baucham and even the Late RC Sproul and other leaders you admire and receive from to shun you and your church.

Putting on airs, and in your mind killing hundreds of Christians is not being polite nor respectful. Try introducing yourself first before jumping the sheep gate and condemning people you do not even know. You sound like a wolf-in-sheep's clothing to me.

 

[blue_ladybug]

It isn't demeaning. He DID lose His temper more than once. What else would you call brandishing a whip, and turning over tables out of anger? My point is, if HE could get angry and lose His cool, than how are we any different? WE aren't God's enemy simply because we lose our tempers. And neither was Jesus.

Hmmm. That's demeaning, as if Jesus blew it, and we have to ask "Was HE God's enemy?"

lolzzzzz...

Jesus never "lost his cool" nor had he ever "lost his temper." This would be a work of the flesh, to be out of control.

They are unfortunate terms and are inaccurate.

His display showed his immutability and righteous indignation as YHWH, as witnessed in the OT, Revelation, Jude &c. To paint him in such a light as having "lost" his temper &c is myopic at the least.

 

[UnderGrace]

I do not believe that Jesus sinned in His humanness with evil emotions like jealousy, pride, greed or envy.
You may want to rethink this?

Jesus had a carnal mind. He was fully human so He had ALL the human emotions. Pride, anger, envy, etc... He may not have acted on all of them, but He DID possess them..

Just because He was nicer about it doesn't mean that He couldn't have used stronger words like s**t, instead of "dung" or excrement. Who knows, maybe He did. The bible does not tell us about every single thing He did or said..

The words "dung" and "excrement" are in the bible. Dung refers to animal poop, and excrement refers to human waste. Oh, and the word "ass" is in the bible, also. In reference to a donkey, but it's also a reference to a body part.

Now give it a rest. You've been raving on and off all day about the atrocities of using harsh language to get through to people. You think pastors don't swear? I'll bet you 9 out of 10 of them swear like a sailor at home.. lol

 

[hardsell]

You seem pretty angry to me in your posts.

Yet other can justify theirs by saying silly things like Jesus got mad, so it works for them and not others.

No anger here, just calling certain people into accountability that are coddled little spiritual babies that need to grow up spiritually , be who they claim God says they are and stop the crying.

Paul did the same thing I am doing. I find it ironic that they use him to justify perversion and filth, but cannot see that he called for righteousness and imitating Christ more than he for called for perversion and filth.

Growing up spiritually is hard for many. It involves active participation, crucifying the flesh and its passions and it is hard, very hard. You also have to renew your mind to God's word and that means mediating and eating the word on the issue you are overcoming.

 

[johnthebaptist]

Not sure what you are trying to say.

Strive for full restoration, encourage one another, be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.
2 cor 13:11

Encourage, live in peace. Now Jesus tells me to do this.
Is it possible to disagree but in peaceful loving way?

Oh, by the way, are you trying to rebuke and silence me or encourage me to follow Jesus?
I just love Him so much, because no matter what people say or do, His will will prevail, and
His ways will rule over all the earth, through His Kingdom and His people, Amen.

Excuse me but you have been here one day and now are the arbitrator of what can and cannot be said on this forum. Why not enter the sheep gate through the front and introduce yourself first before you start criticizing folks you do not even know, no forum rules have been broken here. There are many topics on this forum that you may find more important to discuss than, "Not By Works" ​Try reading "Forum Rules, again,

When you have concerns about vibrant and heated discussions, please read this.

"We understand some users are concerned about the vibrant and passionate debates and discussions that happen in this part of the forum. We understand that to some this may not look very Christian. There is nothing wrong with discussion that is vibrant or passionate. So please don't be turned off by that."​

Re: When you have concerns about vibrant and heated discussions, please read this.
I guess I assumed everyone knew what the essentials are...
Here are examples of the essentials...

(These are here to give a general idea of what is essential to the faith, it's not a comprehensive doctrinal statement from this site.)
1. The deity of Jesus.
2. The inspiration and authority of the Bible as found in the 66 books of the Bible.
3. Faith in the crucixition, death and resurrection of Jesus is the only way to reconcile you to relationship with God.
4. Jesus is coming back again!
5. Believers should seek to live for God and not the world.

I may have missed some, but that should give you an idea.
Timing of end times events isn't an essential. Calvinism vs non calvinism isn't an essential. Which version of the Bible to read isn't generally an essential, unless it's a version made by a sect that teaches against the esssentials of the faith.
Those should give you an idea. That list isn't comphrensive. If you have a question about something, send me a CC mail and I'll get back to you on it.

• Last edited by 1still_waters; September 2nd, 2009 at 06:46 PM.​
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• August 30th, 2009
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  1still_waters
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  When you have concerns about vibrant and heated discussions, please read this.
  We understand some users are concerned about the vibrant and passionate debates and discussions that happen in this part of the forum. We understand that to some this may not look very Christian.
  ​
  There is nothing wrong with discussion that is vibrant or passionate. So please don't be turned off by that.
  On the other hand, we will step in if we see any of these.....
  
  1. Blatant personal attacks. (This means actually attacking someone. It doesn't mean when someone fails to believe something you believe.)
  2. Blatant false teachings against the essentials of our faith. (We'll allow some users for a time to discuss issues that are against the faith, but if time passes and they keep it up, they will be dealt with.)
  3.Perverse talk and swearing.
  
  If you see any of the things listed above, please report them, using the report thread link. But please don't report something if it's just an opinion you don't agree with. That kind of takes up time some of us could be giving to other areas of concern on the site.
  
  Also, if you're going to report something to a moderator, please be sure you can specifically show where the offense is located and please make sure it fits within the list of things we step in for. It's very helpful for us if you just click the report post link.
  
  When you contact us in the room about a post, we usually have no idea where to look to begin with and we don't have the time to read an entire thread to find the post that is offensive. The best thing you can do is just use the report thread link.
  
  So please don't report things to us just because someone said something you disagree with and it makes you mad. Yet don't be hesitant to report something that fits the list of blatant offenses we should step in and address.
  
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[blue_ladybug]

What's wrong? You don't like hearing that our Lord had the same carnal mind that we have? He absolutely did, but being fully God, as well as fully human, He did not act on that carnality..

Wow. Unbelievable. You really need to stop. You're getting way out of control.