Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The funny thing is that it is just as easy not to use these words. Your defense is silly, the Bible speaks more about speaking a word of life and wholesome things coming from our mouths than your justifications. What you are getting stung by is what Jesus said, out of the heart the mouth speaks. If your heart is full of profanity your mouth will speak it.
The whole point seems to elude you, so one last time.
You are a self professed Bible teacher at a church or some other ministry, you claim to teach others the Bible,. Because of this you should have enough love and self control to abstain from any appearance of evil, including using cuss words and profanity to make a point when there is no other nice word to use.
Scientifically speaking the constant use of profanity and cuss words has also been found to he the sign of an untrained/undisciplined mind and someone with poor to average vocabulary and communication skills.
The mind is looking for the right word to process, but the mind has not been feed so the mind makes up for the lack of knowledge. This is why someone like you can excuse teaching Bible to people while swearing to them to make your point. If your spirit was leading you and full of knowledge, you would not ever need to use a bad word to make a point because there are not nice words to be found. This is becuase the Holy Spirit will tell you what to say and provide the nice words for you to use.
The Holy Spirit is not the one saying profanity or cuss words through you, this is all flesh. I have heard Bible pastors and teachers use profanity and they should not be teaching.
They are carnal minded and a carnal mind is an enemy of God.
In conclusion,
Self professed Bible teacher sand Preachers and Pastors should not be using any form of foul language. We are held to a higher judgement and we should have the fruit of love and self control enough to abstain from any appearance of evil.
The whole point seems to elude you, so one last time.
You are a self professed Bible teacher at a church or some other ministry, you claim to teach others the Bible,. Because of this you should have enough love and self control to abstain from any appearance of evil, including using cuss words and profanity to make a point when there is no other nice word to use.
Scientifically speaking the constant use of profanity and cuss words has also been found to he the sign of an untrained/undisciplined mind and someone with poor to average vocabulary and communication skills.
The mind is looking for the right word to process, but the mind has not been feed so the mind makes up for the lack of knowledge. This is why someone like you can excuse teaching Bible to people while swearing to them to make your point. If your spirit was leading you and full of knowledge, you would not ever need to use a bad word to make a point because there are not nice words to be found. This is becuase the Holy Spirit will tell you what to say and provide the nice words for you to use.
The Holy Spirit is not the one saying profanity or cuss words through you, this is all flesh. I have heard Bible pastors and teachers use profanity and they should not be teaching.
They are carnal minded and a carnal mind is an enemy of God.
In conclusion,
Self professed Bible teacher sand Preachers and Pastors should not be using any form of foul language. We are held to a higher judgement and we should have the fruit of love and self control enough to abstain from any appearance of evil.
Last edited:
N
thank you so much brother
sorry if ive been a little hard headed before
im sure if we went over a lot of the things we may have disagreed on in the past id have a better chance at understanding your perspective now than i did before
you guys are making a grown man blush
i really do appreciate the kind words
but any growth i have had is of God and i ought to be thankful and not let it go to my head
sorry if ive been a little hard headed before
im sure if we went over a lot of the things we may have disagreed on in the past id have a better chance at understanding your perspective now than i did before
you guys are making a grown man blush
i really do appreciate the kind words
but any growth i have had is of God and i ought to be thankful and not let it go to my head
E
Do me a favor my friend, Take your self righteous crap someplace else.
1. You are not God
2. You do not know the situation in all churches
3. Jesus himself used those words (a fact you seem to be hiding) because he knew they were needed
God is not going to strike a pastor who uses what people consider to be a cuss word anymore than he is going to strike a believer who is supposed to be representing God who is out drinking with some friend, and happens to have 1 to many.
I am done with this, If you want to condemn DC. Go ahead. I tried to help you/. But you can not help a person who does not think they need help
I grew up is self righteous churches who condemned and judged others because they drank, smoked, would cuss, women who wore jeans, men who had long hair etc etc etc. And those churches were dead churches. And people were so af5raid (myself included) to do anything, we would go into secret and hide our sins we struggled with and could not get help out of fear of being judged.
to me, it is refreshing to see a pastor who is on fire and wants to make a point (especially if his church needs to hear it because they are struggling with it) and yells out a 4 letter word to wake people up. It wakes people up. I have seen nothing but positive reaction from the audience when this happens in context (not saying we should do it all the time. And guess what. After church what do you think the discussion is? That the pastor said a 4 letter word? No. The point he was trying to make.
1. You are not God
2. You do not know the situation in all churches
3. Jesus himself used those words (a fact you seem to be hiding) because he knew they were needed
God is not going to strike a pastor who uses what people consider to be a cuss word anymore than he is going to strike a believer who is supposed to be representing God who is out drinking with some friend, and happens to have 1 to many.
I am done with this, If you want to condemn DC. Go ahead. I tried to help you/. But you can not help a person who does not think they need help
I grew up is self righteous churches who condemned and judged others because they drank, smoked, would cuss, women who wore jeans, men who had long hair etc etc etc. And those churches were dead churches. And people were so af5raid (myself included) to do anything, we would go into secret and hide our sins we struggled with and could not get help out of fear of being judged.
to me, it is refreshing to see a pastor who is on fire and wants to make a point (especially if his church needs to hear it because they are struggling with it) and yells out a 4 letter word to wake people up. It wakes people up. I have seen nothing but positive reaction from the audience when this happens in context (not saying we should do it all the time. And guess what. After church what do you think the discussion is? That the pastor said a 4 letter word? No. The point he was trying to make.
E
thank you so much brother
sorry if ive been a little hard headed before
im sure if we went over a lot of the things we may have disagreed on in the past id have a better chance at understanding your perspective now than i did before
you guys are making a grown man blush
i really do appreciate the kind words
but any growth i have had is of God and i ought to be thankful and not let it go to my head
sorry if ive been a little hard headed before
im sure if we went over a lot of the things we may have disagreed on in the past id have a better chance at understanding your perspective now than i did before
you guys are making a grown man blush
i really do appreciate the kind words
but any growth i have had is of God and i ought to be thankful and not let it go to my head
And amen and amen, It was God,, God gets all the glory!!
So are you preaching to save those who believe?
Don't you know that preaching the Gospel is a work of service to God and without those preaching it no one will be saved? So can you still say that works are not required for salvation?
I bet you would unless you really were SENT BY GOD otherwise you're just another false teacher claiming to know God but denying Him with your actions.
Preachers are part of the body of Christ which is the church, doing what they see their Father doing and tells them to do.
1 Thessalonians 3:2 We sent Timothy, who is our brother and God’s fellow worker in spreading the gospel of Christ, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith,
Philippians 2:22 But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has served with me in the work of the gospel.
Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.(ref: romans 12:4-8, 1 corinthians chapter 12)
Romans 10:8-17 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
Don't you know that preaching the Gospel is a work of service to God and without those preaching it no one will be saved? So can you still say that works are not required for salvation?
I bet you would unless you really were SENT BY GOD otherwise you're just another false teacher claiming to know God but denying Him with your actions.
Preachers are part of the body of Christ which is the church, doing what they see their Father doing and tells them to do.
1 Thessalonians 3:2 We sent Timothy, who is our brother and God’s fellow worker in spreading the gospel of Christ, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith,
Philippians 2:22 But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has served with me in the work of the gospel.
Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.(ref: romans 12:4-8, 1 corinthians chapter 12)
Romans 10:8-17 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
WERE YOU SENT BY GOD?
Luke 6:43-45 A Tree and Its Fruit “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. FOR OUT OF THE OVERFLOW OF HIS HEART , HIS MOUTH SPEAKS..
WHO ARE CLAIMING TO BE “STILL SINNERS” OUT OF THE OVERFLOW OF THEIR HEART???
John 3:34 For the one whom GOD HAS SENT speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.
This thread and it’s author implies that there’s no need for works to a FAITH ALONE that SAVES(faith void of works).
SALVATION IS NOT BY WORKS IF IT’S APART FROM FAITH (eph 2:8-9) JUST AS FAITH ALONE APART FROM WORKS OF LOVE,OBEDIENCE AND FAITH IS DEAD (james 2:14-26)
IF WE ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE (eph 5:23) AREN’T WE EXPECTED TO OBEY HIS COMMANDS (john 14:12-15)AND DO HIS WORKS OF SALVATION (1cor 3:9, 12:28 mat 25:21-30, 9:37-38 eph 4:12-13, rom 12: 3-8, 1 tim 4:16) AS WE ARE TO DO HIS WILL HERE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN (mat 6:10)
John 4:34-38 “My food,” said Jesus, “is TO DO THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME AND TO FINISH HIS WORK. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be GLAD TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I SENT YOU to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and YOU HAVE REAPED THE BENEFITS OF THEIR LABOR.”
John 5:36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and WHICH I AM DOING, TESTIFIES that the Father has SENT me.
John 6:39-40 And this is the will of him who SENT me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and BELIEVES IN HIM, SHALL HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, and I will raise him up at the last day.”
John 7:18 HE WHO SPEAKS ON HIS OWN does so to gain honor for himself, but HE WHO WORKS FOR THE HONOR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM IS A MAN OF TRUTH; there is nothing false about him.
John 9:4-5 As long as it is day, WE MUST DO THE WORK OF HIM WHO SENT ME. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
John 17:18 As you sent me into the world, I have SENT THEM into the world.
John 20:21-22 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I AM SENDING YOU.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
ONE SURE WAY TO RECOGNIZE THOSE WHO WERE NOT SENT ACCORDING TO THE VERSES ABOVE IS TO KNOW WHAT THEY DO.
DO THEY PREACH AGAINST THE WORKS THAT GOD HAS PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO BY SAYING THAT: “FAITH ALONE SAVES AND IT IS VOID OF WORKS.”?
DO THEY PREACH THAT; “WORKS ARE WORKS ARE WORKS.”?
THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S COMMANDMENTS CANNOT SAVE EVEN THOSE BELIEVERS WHO CONFESS WITH THEIR MOUTHS THAT JESUS IS LORD AND BELIEVE IN THEIR HEARTS THAT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.
DO THEY PREACH THAT SINCE THEY WERE ALREADY SAVED, THEY WILL ALWAYS BE SAVED REGARDLESS OF THEIR WILLFUL AND CONTINUOUS SINNING(manifested by their arguments against those who push for continuous faith and are against willful sinning).
DO THEY PROMOTE SIN BY SAYING THAT THOSE WHO ARE CLAIMING THAT THOSE BORN AGAIN IN THE SPIRIT IS A NEW CREATION AND THEREFORE MUST NOT SIN OR CEASE FROM SINNING, ARE LIARS ACCDG. TO 1JOHN 1:8 WHICH THEY LOVE TO QUOTE BUT REJECTING THE WHOLE TRUTH EXPRESSED IN THE BIBLE? WHICH ONLY PROVES THIS VERSES BELOW TO BE TRUE:
Romans 8:5-9 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds SET ON WHAT THE SPIRIT DESIRES. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD’S LAW, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, HE DOES NOT BELONG TO CHRIST.
WOULD THE SPIRIT OF GOD DESIRE SIN?
Galatians 2:17-18 “If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes EVIDENT that we ourselves are SINNERS, does that mean that Christ PROMOTES SIN? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker.
Romans 6:15 What then? SHALL WE SIN because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
1 Corinthians 6:17 But he who unites himself with the Lord is ONE WITH HIM IN SPIRIT.
John 16:13 But when he, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11,15-20 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. AND THAT IS WHAT SOME OF YOU WERE. But you were WASHED, you were SANCTIFIED, you were JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
Galatians 6:7-8 DO NOT BE DECEIVED, GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I DO EXACTLY WHAT .MY FATHER HAS COMMANDED ME. “Come now; let us leave.
Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were STILL SINNERS, Christ died for us.
Romans 6:21-23 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ASHAMED OF? Those things result in death! But NOW that you have been SET FREE FROM SIN and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to HOLINESS, and the result is ETERNAL LIFE. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD.
Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only CONTINUE TO DO these very things but also APPROVE of those who practice them.
John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.
Psalm 49:13-14 This is the fate of those who trust in themselves, and of THEIR FOLLOWERS, who APPROVE their sayings. Selah Like sheep they are destined for the grave, and death will feed on them. The upright will rule over them in the morning; their forms will decay in the grave, far from their princely mansions.
THEREFORE:
Romans 10:14-15 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? AND HOW CAN THEY PREACH UNLESS THEY ARE SENT? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
I am not judging or condemning you or DC Sir, I am calling you both to be accountable as fellow ministers of the Gospel. If that is to hard for you two to do, take it up with God, not me. I am fearful for you and why you continue making the excuses for bad character you have been making. Jesus did not use that word in the context you are using it for your defense.
A pastor using a 4 letter word to wake up his audience is solely in his flesh. He needs prayer, removed from the pulpit and given swift and immediate ministerial intervention. He needs to be taught how to rely on the Holy Spirit and not his flesh and gotchas and gimmicks to get people moving. The Holy Spirit would not give one unction to use profanity while teaching, preaching or ministering, and I do not care what you say to justify it, you are wrong and dead wrong. This is not of the Holy Spirit it is of a spirit of antichrist. Seems to me you tickle the ears of the man on fire because he uses bad words and you use bad words.
I have helped people in congregations overcome using profanity and never had to use a 4 letter word to wake them up to do it.
Last edited:
=Cee;3405565]Hi Studyman,
Remember, the Pharisees claimed to be God's Children, they claimed to be Abrahams Children. Yet, the Scriptures they claimed to follow condemned their preaching. The Scriptures did contain "life" as they are where the Gospel of Christ comes from, but the Pharisees rejected those scriptures as Jesus points out later .
John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
So this adds to the truth that the Pharisees weren't trying to obey God, they looked at His Word, read His Word, and rejected it. According to the Bible anyway.
Well since it is a Christian tradition to reject God's Sabbath, I understand where this definition comes from. But what did the Pharisees do here?
Matt. 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
This is another example of them creating their own Laws and rejecting Gods. It was never against God to walk and eat a blackberry or ear of corn on His Sabbath. You can not find anything other than conjecture, that says God considered it a sin to take a walk in fellowship and eat a strawberry you might find on that walk. Just as it wasn't against God to help a brother in need on the Sabbath, or leave an animal trapped in suffering until the Sabbath is over. All these were Laws created by Jews and placed on the necks of the people.
Matt. 23:4 For they (Not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
But they were not "On God's Laws", that is the whole point. Jesus was, Zacharias was, Abraham was, but the Pharisees were not. There is no place in the Bible that tells us the Pharisees were trying to obey God. They had created their own religion, their own laws for centuries.
Yet, Jesus said the Pharisees were not obedient. What Laws of God did Paul follow that condemned the true believers, or the Gentiles. Can you find any law of God that justified the stoning of Stephen? No my friend, not one time does Jesus or Paul tell us the Pharisees were following God Laws. They had their own laws and Paul followed them perfectly.
John 19:robe. And Pilate saith unto them, Behold the man!
6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
Can you find a Law of God that condemned Jesus? No! They had their own Law they preached as Gods and God had been sending them Prophets which they killed, then He sent them His own Son who they killed as well.
Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
So I know it is popular to preach that the Pharisees were trying to please God by obeying Him, but the Bible teaches just the opposite.
Not God's Law, but the centuries old Jewish Traditions.
Gal. 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
He just told us he was a Pharisee, the Bible teaches the Pharisees had created their own "righteousness" their own images of God after the likeness of man, their own version of God's Holy Sabbath, His Priesthood.
Jesus said of them;
Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not God)
John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Yet, you are preaching that Paul and the Pharisees followed God's Laws "Blameless". Paul followed the Mainstream Teaching of the day perfectly which was a false teaching and from satan as Jesus teaches. Can you see what you are doing here? You are rejecting volumes of Scriptures that teach one thing, because you teach another. I know you mean well, and I know how difficult this stuff is to hear sometimes, but how can you preach that the Pharisees were obeying God's Laws and not their own given the volumes of scriptures which preach just that.
Jer. 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
Yes, he did toss his own righteousness away, which was by the Law created by the only God of Abraham preaching people on the planet, and submitted himself to the righteousness of God which Jesus said to "Seek Ye First".
You see how this lie affects everything we believe. From this lie comes another one that preaches God's Laws are a burden, when Jesus says it was the Pharisees who created and laid the heavy burden on the people. I could go on and on.
I agree, but preaching lies about God and His Word is not going to get you there. The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time preached lies about God and it cost them their salvation.
Absolutely,
But what "Christ" are you preaching? The one who rejected the Mainstream Preachers of His time because they were trying to please God by obeying Him? That Jesus doesn't exist.
I am speaking about the Jesus of the Bible, who rejected the Mainstream Preachers of His time because they rejected His Fathers Words and created their own. They taught for doctrines the Commandments of man, and not from God.
John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
This is the truth about the Pharisees. Not, as "Many" who come in Christ's Name preach, which is the Pharisees were rejected by Jesus because they were trying to follow God's Laws.
It is a good conversation to have and I am open to more evidence that the Pharisees were trying to obey God and their own traditions. But I have to be honest, I don't think you will find any in the Bible.
Remember, the Pharisees claimed to be God's Children, they claimed to be Abrahams Children. Yet, the Scriptures they claimed to follow condemned their preaching. The Scriptures did contain "life" as they are where the Gospel of Christ comes from, but the Pharisees rejected those scriptures as Jesus points out later .
John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
So this adds to the truth that the Pharisees weren't trying to obey God, they looked at His Word, read His Word, and rejected it. According to the Bible anyway.
Well since it is a Christian tradition to reject God's Sabbath, I understand where this definition comes from. But what did the Pharisees do here?
Matt. 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
This is another example of them creating their own Laws and rejecting Gods. It was never against God to walk and eat a blackberry or ear of corn on His Sabbath. You can not find anything other than conjecture, that says God considered it a sin to take a walk in fellowship and eat a strawberry you might find on that walk. Just as it wasn't against God to help a brother in need on the Sabbath, or leave an animal trapped in suffering until the Sabbath is over. All these were Laws created by Jews and placed on the necks of the people.
Matt. 23:4 For they (Not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
But they were not "On God's Laws", that is the whole point. Jesus was, Zacharias was, Abraham was, but the Pharisees were not. There is no place in the Bible that tells us the Pharisees were trying to obey God. They had created their own religion, their own laws for centuries.
Yet, Jesus said the Pharisees were not obedient. What Laws of God did Paul follow that condemned the true believers, or the Gentiles. Can you find any law of God that justified the stoning of Stephen? No my friend, not one time does Jesus or Paul tell us the Pharisees were following God Laws. They had their own laws and Paul followed them perfectly.
John 19:robe. And Pilate saith unto them, Behold the man!
6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
Can you find a Law of God that condemned Jesus? No! They had their own Law they preached as Gods and God had been sending them Prophets which they killed, then He sent them His own Son who they killed as well.
Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
So I know it is popular to preach that the Pharisees were trying to please God by obeying Him, but the Bible teaches just the opposite.
Not God's Law, but the centuries old Jewish Traditions.
Gal. 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
He just told us he was a Pharisee, the Bible teaches the Pharisees had created their own "righteousness" their own images of God after the likeness of man, their own version of God's Holy Sabbath, His Priesthood.
Jesus said of them;
Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not God)
John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Yet, you are preaching that Paul and the Pharisees followed God's Laws "Blameless". Paul followed the Mainstream Teaching of the day perfectly which was a false teaching and from satan as Jesus teaches. Can you see what you are doing here? You are rejecting volumes of Scriptures that teach one thing, because you teach another. I know you mean well, and I know how difficult this stuff is to hear sometimes, but how can you preach that the Pharisees were obeying God's Laws and not their own given the volumes of scriptures which preach just that.
Jer. 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
Yes, he did toss his own righteousness away, which was by the Law created by the only God of Abraham preaching people on the planet, and submitted himself to the righteousness of God which Jesus said to "Seek Ye First".
You see how this lie affects everything we believe. From this lie comes another one that preaches God's Laws are a burden, when Jesus says it was the Pharisees who created and laid the heavy burden on the people. I could go on and on.
I agree, but preaching lies about God and His Word is not going to get you there. The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time preached lies about God and it cost them their salvation.
Absolutely,
But what "Christ" are you preaching? The one who rejected the Mainstream Preachers of His time because they were trying to please God by obeying Him? That Jesus doesn't exist.
I am speaking about the Jesus of the Bible, who rejected the Mainstream Preachers of His time because they rejected His Fathers Words and created their own. They taught for doctrines the Commandments of man, and not from God.
John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
This is the truth about the Pharisees. Not, as "Many" who come in Christ's Name preach, which is the Pharisees were rejected by Jesus because they were trying to follow God's Laws.
It is a good conversation to have and I am open to more evidence that the Pharisees were trying to obey God and their own traditions. But I have to be honest, I don't think you will find any in the Bible.
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another
John 13:34
We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers, as is right, because your faith is growing abundantly, and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing.
1 Peter 1:22
Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.
1 Peter 4:8
And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
Heb 10:24
John 13:34
We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers, as is right, because your faith is growing abundantly, and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing.
1 Peter 1:22
Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.
1 Peter 4:8
And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
Heb 10:24
Amen! That’s why Ephesians 2:8 reads saved by GRACE through faith. The Amplified Bible reads - For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God.
*Nothing there about deserving salvation.
*Nothing there about deserving salvation.
