Not By Works

[ComeLordJesus]

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write

v.4 Nevertheless I have some what against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
v5. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

 

[Ralph-]

Fran was right....you gonna set us straight.

I think it was Allen that said that, not Fran.

All it takes is talking straight to the matter to set you straight. Hypergrace says you do not have to persevere to the end to be saved when Jesus comes back. It says that you can get off the train along the way and you'll still be saved. But if you do that that shows that you either never believed to begin with, which is what once saved always saved used to mean, or you do not now believe as you think you do.

Whether or not you were ever really saved doesn't matter. If you're a thorn bush, or a fruitless vine, or a barren field when Christ returns you will not be saved. You do not belong to him. Your life shows you do not belong to him. If you did belong to him you'd be a fruitful vine not a thorn bush. Not perfect, but fruitful nonetheless.

It will be hard to discuss this now that we can see plainly that you and others have been teaching Freegrace hypergrace doctrine. That is not allowed in this forum. You keep saying that we don't have to persevere to the very end to be saved and I'll keep showing you the plain scriptures that directly refute that and we'll see what the mods do with you pushing that doctrine in this forum.

And I will stand by my position that anybody who vehemently defends Freegrace doctrine after seeing the truth in the scriptures about it is not saved. If they were saved, they would not subscribe to that doctrine and would instead go with what the Bible says. It's that simple.

 

[TruthTalk]

Unbeliever....not hardly pal....I, like Paul believed to the saving of the soul....it is your false dogma that I have issues with....and like normal....workers for twisiting and lying about what has actually been said....by your accusatory lies it is you pal that proves you neither follow your own dogma, much less actually know the truth.....twice now you have misrepresented the truth and now judge my salvation......Fran was right....you gonna set us straight...on the fact that you do not know what your talking about......

And I would like to add; Decontroversal does not preach a "Hypergrace", just more lies after lie after lie.

 

[Ralph-]

how am i supposed to call 'a good work' anything i do because i'm convinced i have to do it 'or else' ?

Can't remember if I answered this or not. But anyway, the Bible says to not quench the Spirit-2 Thessalonians 5:19. And, you are under obligation to walk by the Spirit and not according to the flesh-Romans 8:12. Did you know it says that? So how can being convinced of my obligation to do something make it so I can not call it a good work?

If you suppress the Spirit working in you to produce righteous works you are being disobedient. Doing a good work by not suppressing the impulse of the Spirit out of obligation to the Spirit hardly disqualifies it as being a good work. That is the very definition of it. Our good work is us yielding to the impulse of the Spirit at work in us to produce those good works.

 

[Ralph-]

And I would like to add; Decontroversal does not preach a "Hypergrace", just more lies after lie after lie.

If you think that then you do not know what Freegrace hypergrace teaching is.

You are hypergrace and you don't even know it.

 

[Ralph-]

Just so people know that it is freegrace, hypergrace doctrine that has been being pushed here....

If you think there is NOTHING that can prevent you from being saved when Jesus returns, not even 'living in' your old life, you are a Freegrace believer.

It used to be that once saved always saved doctrine meant you believed and obeyed to the very end, and if you didn't that showed that you never really believed to begin with. Now once saved always saved means you do not have to persevere to the very end in fruitfulness to be saved on the day Christ returns, you are saved nonetheless That's hypergrace doctrine. It's the new wind of doctrine tossing people around who aren't moored in a genuine faith and obedience in Christ. And I and others have come to the conclusion independently that this is the end time false doctrine that will infiltrate and destroy the church before the coming of Christ.

 

[dcontroversal]

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write

v.4 Nevertheless I have some what against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
v5. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Nice....nothing to do with salvation and is directed at their works collectively as an assembly of the Lord and the loss of authority as a New Testament Church....context is a word that alludes many...

 

[dcontroversal]

Just so people know that it is freegrace, hypergrace doctrine that has been being pushed here....

If you think there is NOTHING that can prevent you from being saved when Jesus returns, not even 'living in' your old life, you are a Freegrace believer.

It used to be that once saved always saved doctrine meant you believed and obeyed to the very end, and if you didn't that showed that you never really believed to begin with. Now once saved always saved means you do not have to persevere to the very end in fruitfulness to be saved on the day Christ returns, you are saved nonetheless That's hypergrace doctrine. It's the new wind of doctrine tossing people around who aren't moored in a genuine faith and obedience in Christ. And I and others have come to the conclusion independently that this is the end time false doctrine that will infiltrate and destroy the church before the coming of Christ.

Just so people know the above is one of numerous false statements made by this individual who pushes a self saving losable salvation which the bible does not teach....He employs the word nothing here...Nothing shall seperate us from the love of God......and the promises of Christ stand sure....eternal life is exactly that and given by faith!

 

[dcontroversal]

Just so people know that it is freegrace, hypergrace doctrine that has been being pushed here....

If you think there is NOTHING that can prevent you from being saved when Jesus returns, not even 'living in' your old life, you are a Freegrace believer.

It used to be that once saved always saved doctrine meant you believed and obeyed to the very end, and if you didn't that showed that you never really believed to begin with. Now once saved always saved means you do not have to persevere to the very end in fruitfulness to be saved on the day Christ returns, you are saved nonetheless That's hypergrace doctrine. It's the new wind of doctrine tossing people around who aren't moored in a genuine faith and obedience in Christ. And I and others have come to the conclusion independently that this is the end time false doctrine that will infiltrate and destroy the church before the coming of Christ.

No actually it is called Greek Verb tense, scripture in context and words meaning exactly what they say....such as eternal life, everlasting life, no condemnation and God saves by faith....you should try the truth instead of your cafe blend false dogma

 

[TruthTalk]

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write

v.4 Nevertheless I have some what against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
v5. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Having a passionate discussion about a subject like, "Not by Works", does not mean people have lost "their first love", reread the forum rule's.

 

[dcontroversal]

If you think that then you do not know what Freegrace hypergrace teaching is.

You are hypergrace and you don't even know it.

Does that make you a worker for and you do know it....??

 

[Ralph-]

Nice....nothing to do with salvation and is directed at their works collectively as an assembly of the Lord and the loss of authority as a New Testament Church....context is a word that alludes many...

I don't have to endure to the end to be saved-That's Hypergrace doctrine. Read vs. 7 to this church at Ephesus.

 

[Ralph-]

No actually it is called Greek Verb tense, scripture in context and words meaning exactly what they say....such as eternal life, everlasting life, no condemnation and God saves by faith....you should try the truth instead of your cafe blend false dogma

I get it. I'm saved no matter what. I don't even have to endure to the end to be saved. That's hypergrace doctrine.

 

[dcontroversal]

I think it was Allen that said that, not Fran.

All it takes is talking straight to the matter to set you straight. Hypergrace says you do not have to persevere to the end to be saved when Jesus comes back. It says that you can get off the train along the way and you'll still be saved. But if you do that that shows that you either never believed to begin with, which is what once saved always saved used to mean, or you do not now believe as you think you do.

Whether or not you were ever really saved doesn't matter. If you're a thorn bush, or a fruitless vine, or a barren field when Christ returns you will not be saved. You do not belong to him. Your life shows you do not belong to him. If you did belong to him you'd be a fruitful vine not a thorn bush. Not perfect, but fruitful nonetheless.

It will be hard to discuss this now that we can see plainly that you and others have been teaching Freegrace hypergrace doctrine. That is not allowed in this forum. You keep saying that we don't have to persevere to the very end to be saved and I'll keep showing you the plain scriptures that directly refute that and we'll see what the mods do with you pushing that doctrine in this forum.

And I will stand by my position that anybody who vehemently defends Freegrace doctrine after seeing the truth in the scriptures about it is not saved. If they were saved, they would not subscribe to that doctrine and would instead go with what the Bible says. It's that simple.

Actually taking Matthew 24 out of context along with other verses does not make the above drivel correct...The bible is clear....all who believe on the Son HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND ETERNAL SALVATION.....Eternal and everlasting mean exactly that...not temporal based upon service.....your dogma devalues Christ and his work while lifting yourself up...it also makes Christ into a liar, Paul into a liar, John into a liar.......so far today you have misrepresented the truth at least 3 times......I will take their word over yours which so far vacillates more than the waves of the sea and has be found false 3 times.....

 

[dcontroversal]

I get it. I'm saved no matter what. I don't even have to endure to the end to be saved. That's hypergrace doctrine.

No harldy....you get nothing......Try context for Matthew 24....it has nothing to do with soul salvation...

 

[dcontroversal]

I don't have to endure to the end to be saved-That's Hypergrace doctrine. Read vs. 7 to this church at Ephesus.

I have.....numerous times and it is not speaking of salvation......unless you believe lost men can make up a church of God....in thay case go read Peter......saved, immersed and called out <---church members called saints and elect NOT LOST

 

[Ralph-]

Just so people know the above is one of numerous false statements made by this individual who pushes a self saving losable salvation which the bible does not teach....He employs the word nothing here...Nothing shall seperate us from the love of God......and the promises of Christ stand sure....eternal life is exactly that and given by faith!

You do not know what I think about once saved always saved. You just think you do. I'm purposely not saying because it has no bearing on the fact that you have to be an obedient enduring believer when Jesus comes back to be saved not burned up, and I'm not going to let you guys distract from the point that matters with the meaningless matter of once saved always saved. ESPECIALLY the hypergrace version.

Calvinsim says the person who does not endure to the end was never really saved. Hypergrace says you are still saved even if you don't persevere to the end. I'm not discussing hypergrace. I'm just pointing out that you and others are teaching hypergrace. I will not let it go unnoticed any longer.

The church is sinking fast and I'm making the truth known as my small part towards the gates of hell not overcoming the (true) church. The true church will hear and heed, and be saved.

 

[VCO]

If you think that then you do not know what Freegrace hypergrace teaching is.

You are hypergrace and you don't even know it.

We Non-denominational Evangelical are those who think that ALL TRUE CHRISTIANS are those who WILL obey Him out of LOVE, that GOD put in hearts, Rom. 5:5; because HE first love us, 1 John 4:19. IT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION, that happened the moment when the Holy Spirit entered our hearts. IT IS PURELY OUT OF GENUINE LOVE FOR HIM.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

 

[dcontroversal]

You do not know what I think about once saved always saved. You just think you do. I'm purposely not saying because it has no bearing on the fact that you have to be an obedient enduring believer when Jesus comes back and I'm not going to let you guys distract from the point that matters.

Calvinsim says the person who does not endure to the end was never really saved. Hypergrace says you are still saved even if you don't persevere to the end. I'm not discussing it. I'm just pointing out that you are teaching hypergrace. I will not let it go unnoticed any longer.

The church is sinking fast and I'm making the truth known as my small part towards the gates of hell not overcoming the (true) church. The true church will hear and heed, and be saved.

You have said numerous times by your statements about having salvation and then losing it...so...either you are deceptive in what you believe or are not telling the truth which makes one what exactly........???

 

[dcontroversal]

We Non-denominational Evangelical are those who think that ALL TRUE CHRISTIANS are those who WILL obey Him out of LOVE, that GOD put in hearts, Rom. 5:5; because HE first love us, 1 John 4:19. IT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION, that happened the moment when the Holy Spirit entered our hearts. IT IS PURELY OUT OF GENUINE LOVE FOR HIM.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

Amen..........and like the bible states.....some will have fruitless works that get burnt to a crisp yet they themsleves will still be saved and suffer a loss of reward.....it is not that difficult to grasp unless you hold to a false works based cafe blend pseudo gospel or a law keeping cafe blend false gospel