GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Green: It matters with regard to the seventh day, which unfortunately takes us away from Psalm 95 and what it encourages us to do.

Personally I believe such diversions are a tool of the devil in order to take away from encouraging one another in the faith which is what we should be doing. This is why I would love to see an end to this and similar unhelpful topics.
Rejecting God's Word is not a "work" of Faith in Him. Creating your own religion, your own image of God in the likeness of man, creating your own High Days and Sabbaths, is what the Mainstream preachers that hated Jesus did.

Ps. 95 says to kneel before the Lord our Creator, not create our own.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Rejecting God's Word is not a "work" of Faith in Him. Creating your own religion, your own image of God in the likeness of man, creating your own High Days and Sabbaths, is what the Mainstream preachers that hated Jesus did.

Ps. 95 says to kneel before the Lord our Creator, not create our own.
How is YAHWEH the god of the Jews, a national god, the same as Buddah and Allah are national gods, the creator of the universe? The creation account does not mention Yahovah.

RED: they are the ones who imposed the Sabbath along with the rest of the rituals, and you want me to follow them. Come on!
 
Last edited:
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
COLOSSIANS 2:14-17 PART 2/2 THE REAL TRUTH

COL. 2:14 and EPH 2. 15
What is the meaning of the handwriting of “ORDINANCES” that was blotted out and nailed to the cross?

GREEK meaning; blotting out (G1813; ἐξαλείφω; exaleiphō; ex-al-i'-fo; means to obliterate; erase; wipe away) the handwriting of ordinances which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way nailing it to the cross. The Greek words used here is handwriting G5498 χειρόγραφον; cheirographon; which means; hand written legal document which is combined with ordinance G1378 δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; which means; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law: - decree; The Greek meaning of handwriting of ordinances in V14 is a hand written legal document or book of civil, ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws. These are the laws referred to in verse 14 that have been erased and are nailed to the cross.

The handwriting of ORDINANCES {Mosaic laws for meat and drink offerings and annual festivals that have their fulfilment in Jesus} has been blotted out. They were the shadows. They were all prophetic in nature, teaching the plan of salvation which pointing to Jesus as the true lamb of God and our great high priest and His Work on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary. (Leviticus 1; 3-12; 14-17; 22-23; Number 6-8; 15; 28-29; Deut 12; 33; Ex 25:8; John 1:29; 36; Rev 5:6; 1Cor 5:6-7; Heb 8:2-13; 9:1-28)

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] WHICH WAS A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings which were a figure. A shadow

EZEKIEL 46 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

Meat offering by ordinance. There ya go. Hebrews 9 was ofcourse correct

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings). Hebrews 10{1} says that plain and clear. The Word does not say the Sabbath was the shadow of Christ which really makes no sense at all

NUMBERS 19 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

Before Christ the red heifers lived their lives in fear and trembling, thinking they might be next offering. No worries no more.

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

We are no longer under the law concerning the meat and drink offerings {the shadow}. Jesus FULFILLED that portion of the law. Its all grace now! Jesus Himself said “For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed”.

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

Col.2 {16} is used by all Sunday morning denominations so as to rid themselves of Gods Sabbath day. It’s also used to go against Gods laws concerning eating unclean things such as the portly porker. Can their doctrines be found in the scriptures by looking at the followers of the RISEN Christ?

ACTS 17 [2] AND PAUL, AS HIS MANNER WAS, went in unto them, and three SABBATH DAYS reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Paul as his manner was... still keeping the Sabbath…………………..

ACTS 10 [11] And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: [12] Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. [13] And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. [14] BUT PETER SAID, NOT SO, LORD; FOR I HAVE NEVER EATEN ANY THING THAT IS COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

Peter refused to eat the unclean thing even after the risen Christ………………..

ACTS 10 [28] And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but GOD HATH SHEWED ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANY MAN COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

Verse 28 explains the great sheet. No man is now unclean…………………………….

JOEL 1 [13] Gird yourselves, and lament, YE PRIESTS: howl, YE MINISTERS of the altar: come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God: for THE MEAT OFFERING AND THE DRINK OFFERING IS WITHHOLDEN FROM THE HOUSE OF YOUR GOD. [14] Sanctify ye a fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the Lord your God, and cry unto the Lord, [15] Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Doesn’t look good for some, come the Day of the Lord.

NUMBERS 18 [8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, BY AN ORDINANCE for ever.[9] This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: EVERY OBLATION of theirs, EVERY MEAT OFFERING of theirs, and EVERY SIN OFFERING of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.

Above scripture confirms that the offerings are also called oblations

ISAIAH 1 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I AM FULL OF THE BURNT OFFERINGS of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] BRING NO MORE VAIN OBLATIONS; incense is an abomination unto me; THE NEW MOONS AND SABBATHS, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your new moons and your APPOINTED FEASTS my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Bring no more vain oblations in the new moons and the monthly and annual ceremonial Sabbath feast days. WHY? Because Jesus nailed these offerings (oblations) to the cross. The 10 commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) were never nailed to the cross only our sins were through Jesus and the ceremonial laws of Moses that were used for the forgiveness of sins along with the feast days that pointed to the life, death, resurrection and ministration of Jesus as the lamb of God and our great High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary.

HEBREWS 10 [7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. [8] Above when he said, SACRIFICE AND OFFERING AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERING FOR SIN THOU WOULDEST NOT, NEITHER HADST PLEASURE THEREIN; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW; [9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, WHICH HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND. [10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [11] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: [12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10 explains exactly what Isaiah 1 was speaking about. He takes away the 1st covenant {the meat and drink offerings} and established the 2nd covenant {the body of Christ}

The new covenant is all about the blood of Christ. Not changing the law....but fulfilling the law

ZECH.9 [9] Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, THY KING COMETH UNTO THEE: HE IS JUST, AND HAVING SALVATION; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.[10] And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.[11] As for thee also, BY THE BLOOD OF THY COVENANT I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water

Verse 9 definitely prophecies of the coming Jesus. Verse 11, Jesus is called the blood of thy covenant

HEBREWS 12 [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[24] And to Jesus THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND TO THE BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

New covenant...blood

LUKE 22 [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

New testament...blood

HEBRE WS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings. There is that word “ordinance” (dogma) being used again which means; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical Mosaic laws: that were written in the book (Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14)

HEBREWS [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

He taketh away the first {covenant}, that he may establish the second.

JOHN 6 [53] [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

And there’s the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP]……………….

MATTHEW 5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. [18] For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus did not come to change or destroy the God's Law (10 commandments). The Sabbath is still to be kept. He came to fulfill what was written of Him in the books of the law.
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:17-19


The verse -
Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets.

The law here is a reference to to the Torah, the first five books of the bible.

Likewise the prophets that foretold of the coming Messiah.


The law of Moses which was always temporary, and was only in effect until the Seed should come, has been nailed to the cross.


Today, we do not keep the Sabbath according to the law of Moses, whereby people are put to death if they violate.


[FONT=&quot]You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for [/FONT][FONT=&quot]it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Exodus 31:14


Once we agree on this point, then there is room for discussion.




justpassinthrough
[/FONT]
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
Hello gb9 where does it say in the scriptures that "the Lord's Day" is Sunday?
Mk 16:9
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
KJV


Ac 20:7
7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
KJV

LORD'S DAY

LORD'S DAY

(he kuriake hemera ): Formerly it was supposed that the adjective kuriakos (translated "the Lord's") was a purely Christian word, but recent discoveries have proved that it was in fairly common use in the Roman Empire before Christian influence had been felt.

1. Linguistic: In secular use it signified "imperial," "belonging to the lord" - the emperor-and so its adoption by Christianity in the sense "belonging to the Lord" - to Christ-was perfectly easy. Indeed, there is reason to suppose that in the days of Domitian, when the issue had been sharply defined as "Who is Lord? Caesar or Christ?" the use of the adjective by the church was a part of the protest against Caesar-worship (see LORD ). And it is even possible that the full phrase, "the Lord's day," was coined as a contrast to the phrase, "the Augustean day" he sebaste hemera ), a term that seems to have been used in some parts of the Empire to denote days especially dedicated in honor of Caesar-worship.

2. Post-Apostolic: "Lord's day" in the New Testament occurs only in Rv 1:10, but in the post-apostolic literature we have the following references: Ignatius, Ad Mag., ix .1, "No longer keeping the Sabbath but living according to the Lord's day, on which also our Light arose"; Ev. Pet., Per 35 , "The Lord's day began to dawn" (compare Mt 28:1); verse 50 , "early on the Lord's day" (compare Lk 24:1); Barn 15 :9, "We keep the eighth day with gladness," on which Jesus arose from the dead." I.e. Sunday, as the day of Christ's resurrection, was kept as a Christian feast and called "the Lord's day," a title fixed so definitely as to be introduced by the author of Ev. Pet. into phrases from the canonical Gospels. Its appropriateness in Rv 1:10 is obvious, as John received his vision of the exalted Lord when all Christians had their minds directed toward His entrance into glory through the resurrection.

3. In the New Testament: This "first day of the week" appears again in Ac 20:7 as the day on which the worship of the "breaking of bread" took place, and the impression given by the context is that Paul and his companions prolonged their visit to Troas so as to join in the service. Again, 1 Co 16:2 contains the command, "Upon the first day of the week let each one of you lay by him in store," where the force of the form of the imperative used (the present for repeated action) would be better represented in English by "lay by on the successive Sundays." Worship is here not explicitly mentioned (the Greek of "by him" is the usual phrase for "at home"), but that the appropriateness of the day for Christian acts involves an appropriateness for Christian worship is not to be doubted. Indeed, since the seven-day week was unknown to Greek thought, some regular observance of a hebdomadal cycle must have been settled at Corinth before Paul could write his command. Finally, the phrase, "first day in the week" is found elsewhere in the New Testament only in Mt 28:1; Mk 16:2; Lk 24:1; Jn 20:1,19. The word in all passages for "first" is poor Greek (
mia
, "one," for
prote
, a Hebraism), and the coincidence of the form of the phrase in Ac 20:7 and 1 Co 16:2 with the form used by all four evangelists for the Resurrection Day 'is certainly not accidental; it was the fixed Christian base, just as "Lord's day" was to the writer of Ev. Pet.

4. Origin: The hebdomadal observance of Sunday points back of Corinth to Jewish-Christian soil, but it is impossible to say when the custom first began. Not, apparently, in the earliest days, for Ac 2:46 represents the special worship as daily. But this could not have continued very long, for waning of the first enthusiasm, necessity of pursuing ordinary avocations, and increasing numbers of converts must soon have made general daily gatherings impracticable. A choice of a special day must have become necessary, and this day would, of course, have been Sunday. Doubtless, however, certain individuals and communities continued the daily gatherings to a much later date, and the appearance of Sunday as the one distinctive day for worship was almost certainly gradual.

5. Sunday and the Sabbath: Sunday, however, was sharply distinguished from the Sabbath. One was the day on which worship was offered in a specifically Christian form, the other was a day of ritual rest to be observed by all who were subject? the Law of Moses through circumcision (Gal 5:3; compare Ac 21:20). Uncircumcised Gentiles, however, were free from any obligation of Sabbath observance, and it is quite certain that in apostolic times no renewal of any Sabbath rules or transfer of them to Sunday was made for gentile converts. No observance of a particular "day of rest" is contained among the "necessary things" of Ac 15:28-29, nor is any such precept found among all the varied moral directions given in the whole epistolary literature. Quite on the contrary, the observance of a given day as a matter of Divine obligation is denounced by Paul as a forsaking of Christ (Gal 4:10), and Sabbath-keeping is condemned explicitly in Col 2:16. As a matter of individual devotion, to be sure, a man might do as he pleased (Ro 14:5-6), but no general rule as necessary for salvation could be compatible with the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free. Evidently, then, the fact that the Christian worship was held on Sunday did not sanctify Sunday any more than (say) a regular Wednesday service among us sanctifies Wednesday, noting especially that the apostolic service was held in the evening. For it was felt that Christian enthusiasm would raise every day to the highest religious plane, the decay of that enthusiasm through the long delay of the Parousia not being contemplated.
(from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
 

ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
372
39
28
You had posted "This is all that is required of Gentile Christians to be saved, verse 29,..."

"...............If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

It did not say to the Gentiles that if they do these things, they will be saved. It says they will do well.
Paul said:

"That if you shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9

I can't remember Paul ever saying the Gentiles had to follow the Law of Moses.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,402
6,740
113
Paul said:

"That if you shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9

I can't remember Paul ever saying the Gentiles had to follow the Law of Moses.
that is because Paul or anyone else in the N.T. did not say it. the sda/ Hebrew roots cults twist and turn and blend and stretch to make it appear that it does, but straight forward Bible reading does not say it.

and, many of them say that Paul contradicts Christ, and do not take his letters as authoritative Scripture.
 
Last edited:

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
How is YAHWEH the god of the Jews, a national god, the same as Buddah and Allah are national gods, the creator of the universe? The creation account does not mention Yahovah.

RED: they are the ones who imposed the Sabbath along with the rest of the rituals, and you want me to follow them. Come on!
You are following them. They rejected God's Word, and it is your tradition to do the same. And it was Jesus, before becoming a man, who created His Sabbath for man, not the Jews.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
You are following them. They rejected God's Word, and it is your tradition to do the same. And it was Jesus, before becoming a man, who created His Sabbath for man, not the Jews.
Jesus would never have said this:

Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. (Exo 31:14 KJV)

 
Last edited:

ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
372
39
28
Jesus fulfilled all of the law. We cannot say that Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial system, but did not fulfill the other aspects of the law. Jesus either fulfilled all of the law, or none of it. What Jesus' death means for the sacrificial system, it also means for the other aspects of the law.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Jesus fulfilled all of the law. We cannot say that Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial system, but did not fulfill the other aspects of the law. Jesus either fulfilled all of the law, or none of it. What Jesus' death means for the sacrificial system, it also means for the other aspects of the law.
Jesus fulfilled the Law while he was alive. But his death and resurrection ended the law to everyone that believes.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. (Rom 10:4 KJV)

Presumably that ended the Sabbath law?
 
Jul 12, 2012
69
8
8
Yes I agree, Christ is the "end" of the law to everyone who believes, but I'd better not think for a moment that this releases me to "sin". Sin is the transgression of the law, so, if I am transgressing the law, then I have to be led to Christ again, to receive His Forgiveness and Freedom, because when I sin, I put myself under a yoke of bondage and the law becomes bondage.

According to Christ we define love by the 2 great commandments, 1. Love God with all your heart, and 2. Love your neighbor as yourself, but if you want to better understand those two, then we go to the 10, which explain both in greater detail. So you can't get rid of the foundation upon which all the law and the prophets hang. If we were to take a magnifying glass and see what the result of love is, we would see that it is keeping God's commandments.

The world today uses it's own definitions to define love, but we must use the Bible's. If love is the fulfillment of the law, and we are to love God and love our neighbor, then if we are not doing these things then, ultimately we are not fulfilling the law. How do I know if I am loving God, and loving my neighbor? Back to the 10 commandments. Not just the 4th either!
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Jesus would never have said this:

Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. (Exo 31:14 KJV)
Not the Jesus created by the Mainstream Church of our time. But the Jesus of the Bible, the Word who became Flesh, The same God that created His instructions in the first place actually did say this.

Col. 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Paul said the same thing. "I was alive once then the law came and I died". In fact, it was for defiling the Sabbath, among other SINS, that Jesus had to forgive us for in the first place.

Ex. 31:12 And the LORD (Jesus, before becoming a man) spake unto Moses, saying,13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.


Jesus confirms this:

Mark. 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28
Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

The 7th Days is the Sabbath of Jesus, as it is written. Not sure why you would want to reject it given these Biblical facts.

Why did Jesus create the Sabbath? "To be a sign between His People and Him".

Therefore it is "Lawful" to do good on His Sabbath, and unlawful to do bad on His Sabbath. But to reject His Sabbath altogether, well He never did this, not did Peter or Paul or any of His Apostles.

Jesus warned about "lawlessness" or iniquity in a several places.

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Breaking any of God's Commandments is the definition of sin. Rejecting God's Sabbath and creating our own is a sin according to the God of the Bible.

Matt. 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


I'm not sure how you can say Jesus would never say such a thing as He did, both as God of the Old Testament, and the Christ of the New Testament.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Yes I agree, Christ is the "end" of the law to everyone who believes, but I'd better not think for a moment that this releases me to "sin". Sin is the transgression of the law, so, if I am transgressing the law, then I have to be led to Christ again, to receive His Forgiveness and Freedom, because when I sin, I put myself under a yoke of bondage and the law becomes bondage.

According to Christ we define love by the 2 great commandments, 1. Love God with all your heart, and 2. Love your neighbor as yourself, but if you want to better understand those two, then we go to the 10, which explain both in greater detail. So you can't get rid of the foundation upon which all the law and the prophets hang. If we were to take a magnifying glass and see what the result of love is, we would see that it is keeping God's commandments.

The world today uses it's own definitions to define love, but we must use the Bible's. If love is the fulfillment of the law, and we are to love God and love our neighbor, then if we are not doing these things then, ultimately we are not fulfilling the law. How do I know if I am loving God, and loving my neighbor? Back to the 10 commandments. Not just the 4th either!
If we live according to your post then not only will we be keeping the Sabbath day holy, but we shall be keeping everyday holy. At the same time we will be keeping all of the Ten Commandments. For myself, that is the true Christian walk. Well said.
 
Jul 12, 2012
69
8
8
Ageed PS, but the reason that all days are not "holy" in the same way as the Sabbath is because God wants that 7th day for a relationship with us! He wants us to Himself on that day, and He wants us to sever our ties with secular selfish labor for ourselves, and rather spend it in laboring for others. The other six days are for secular work (like working at my job where I get paid). My focus needs to be completely on God and others on the 7th day, without normal everyday labor to interrupt it. The 7th is for Spiritual work and resting from our secular labor. That is why, yes, every day is important to live for God, but ultimately the 7th is time that God carved out for us to rest each week. He said a specific day too, and that's why it's so important. He blessed that day. Does it make a difference which day? You bet :) Cain offered vegetables, Abel offered a lamb. Are we going to do things God's way or our own. That's what this controversy is ultimately about, and why the 7th day is so important.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Not the Jesus created by the Mainstream Church of our time. But the Jesus of the Bible, the Word who became Flesh, The same God that created His instructions in the first place actually did say this.

Col. 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Paul said the same thing. "I was alive once then the law came and I died". In fact, it was for defiling the Sabbath, among other SINS, that Jesus had to forgive us for in the first place.

Ex. 31:12 And the LORD (Jesus, before becoming a man) spake unto Moses, saying,13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.


Jesus confirms this:

Mark. 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28
Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

The 7th Days is the Sabbath of Jesus, as it is written. Not sure why you would want to reject it given these Biblical facts.

Why did Jesus create the Sabbath? "To be a sign between His People and Him".

Therefore it is "Lawful" to do good on His Sabbath, and unlawful to do bad on His Sabbath. But to reject His Sabbath altogether, well He never did this, not did Peter or Paul or any of His Apostles.

Jesus warned about "lawlessness" or iniquity in a several places.

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Breaking any of God's Commandments is the definition of sin. Rejecting God's Sabbath and creating our own is a sin according to the God of the Bible.

Matt. 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


I'm not sure how you can say Jesus would never say such a thing as He did, both as God of the Old Testament, and the Christ of the New Testament.
What you say about Jesus is true. He is the true God, He is the I AM. He is the creator. But the Jews rejected Jesus and plotted against him. What were they doing? They were plotting against the Holy God. So who was their god? Jesus told them who their god was in John 8:44 when he said,

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Ageed PS, but the reason that all days are not "holy" in the same way as the Sabbath is because God wants that 7th day for a relationship with us! He wants us to Himself on that day, and He wants us to sever our ties with secular selfish labor for ourselves, and rather spend it in laboring for others. The other six days are for secular work (like working at my job where I get paid). My focus needs to be completely on God and others on the 7th day, without normal everyday labor to interrupt it. The 7th is for Spiritual work and resting from our secular labor. That is why, yes, every day is important to live for God, but ultimately the 7th is time that God carved out for us to rest each week. He said a specific day too, and that's why it's so important. He blessed that day. Does it make a difference which day? You bet :) Cain offered vegetables, Abel offered a lamb. Are we going to do things God's way or our own. That's what this controversy is ultimately about, and why the 7th day is so important.
I rather thought the controversy was about the actual day?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
What you say about Jesus is true. He is the true God, He is the I AM. He is the creator. But the Jews rejected Jesus and plotted against him. What were they doing? They were plotting against the Holy God. So who was their god? Jesus told them who their god was in John 8:44 when he said,

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Absolutely,

And what was their sin? How do we know the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time were actually deceived into serving satan? Jesus said it was because they "Taught for doctrines the Commandments of men". That they "Transgressed the Commandments of God by their own man made traditions". That they had God's Instructions, but chose to reject them and create their own, including God's Holy Sabbath, instead. Same thing Eve did.

So then, how can man do the same things today, create huge High Days, create their own images of God in the likeness of some long haired pretty boy, create their own Sabbaths, etc. etc. etc. and escape the same judgment Jesus declared on the Mainstream Preachers of His time?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Absolutely,

And what was their sin? How do we know the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time were actually deceived into serving satan? Jesus said it was because they "Taught for doctrines the Commandments of men". That they "Transgressed the Commandments of God by their own man made traditions". That they had God's Instructions, but chose to reject them and create their own, including God's Holy Sabbath, instead. Same thing Eve did.

So then, how can man do the same things today, create huge High Days, create their own images of God in the likeness of some long haired pretty boy, create their own Sabbaths, etc. etc. etc. and escape the same judgment Jesus declared on the Mainstream Preachers of His time?
You do know we are both singing from the same hymn sheet don't you?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Let me give you a hint. How many G/gods do you see here?

The first Yahweh says:

Jeremiah 7:21 Thus says Yahweh of Armies, the God of Israel: Add your burnt offerings to your sacrifices, and eat meat.

Ezekiel 20:40 For in my holy mountain, in the mountain of the height of Israel, says the Lord Yahweh, there shall all the house of Israel, all of them, serve me in the land: there will I accept them, and there will I require your offerings, and the first fruits of your offerings, with all your holy things.

Ezekiel 44:15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, who performed the duty of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister to me; and they shall stand before me to offer to me the fat and the blood, says the Lord Yahweh:

The second Yahweh says:

In every city of Judah he made high places to burn incense to other gods, and provoked to anger Yahweh, the God of his fathers. 2 Chronicles 28:25

“What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? says the Lord; I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed beasts; I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats. (Isaiah 1:11)

Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations—I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly. (Isaiah 1:13)

You shall not do so to Yahweh your God: for every abomination to Yahweh, which he hates, have they done to their gods; for even their sons and their daughters do they burn in the fire to their gods. Deuteronomy 12:31
 
Last edited:

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,039
4,456
113
Can I ask those who keep the Sabbath on a Saturday do you take communion on this day, the seventh day.
And can communion only be taken on that day when you all come together?