Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#46,941
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,439
113
#46,941
Ok I see Fran being bought up. Let's leave that alone.
Despite what people think she is a child of our Father.
I am still in contact with her. I'm here because she asked me to come over. We do not agree with all things. I'm OSAS, She is not

But when I went onto the forum (not this one) she was the first to greet meet me.

She was the first to assure me that when I felt I had lost my salvation because I stopped going to church but still believe in Jesus but was hurting she said "you haven't lost your salvation, glad you are here"

Fran suffered like we all do. When we feel attacked what do we do?

We attack ourselves. Good your hand up if your not guiltily of this.
I'm sitting on mine.

Let's leave her out of this as she is not here to defend herself.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#46,942
Jul 3, 2015
59,837
29,212
113
#46,942
shrume said:
Not to make this whole conversation worse, but is that an absolute, or can a truly saved Christian* say "no" to doing good works?

(* for the record, I believe that anyone who is a Christian is truly saved. And by Christian, I do not mean a person who -calls- himself a Christian, but a person who has confessed Jesus as Lord and believed in his heart that God raised him from the dead, becoming born again of the Holy Spirit.)
Click to expand...
He is the Vine, and we are the branches. We grow in Him, and the growth is evidenced by works, which, most would be unable to determine of another, for nobody knows the heart but God. An example of a good work could be something as simple as smiling at another, when prompted by the Spirit. And we all know how a smile can brighten another's day, possibly especially toward total strangers. Good works do not have to be anything like going to a foreign country to become a missionary :)
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#46,943
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#46,943
Ralph- said:
dcontroversial said the thief on the cross, the prodigal son, the fornicator at Corinth, and the person who is saved but has no works to be rewarded show us that you do not have to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back. He says the only work you have to have done is believe. But the Bible says the person who has no works when Jesus comes back will be burned not saved. I posted the discussion between us but you seem to no want
to see that he said that. And are even calling me a liar for saying he said it. Hmmm. Not good. God is watching.
Click to expand...
Other than those who have a deathbed experience, and those similar, is there such a thing as a Christian having no works? Can't see how that could be.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#46,944
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#46,944
Magenta said:
He is the Vine, and we are the branches. We grow in Him, and the growth is evidenced by works, which, most would be unable to determine of another, for nobody knows the heart but God. An example of a good work could be something as simple as smiling at another, when prompted by the Spirit. And we all know how a smile can brighten another's day, possibly especially toward total strangers. Good works do not have to be anything like going to a foreign country to become a missionary :)
Click to expand...
Amen and even one apple proves an apple tree....and even deeper than that...an apple tree is an apple tree from the moment it sprouts though it may not produce one piece of fruit for years.......
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#46,945
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,439
113
#46,945
Magenta said:
He is the Vine, and we are the branches. We grow in Him, and the growth is evidenced by works, which, most would be unable to determine of another, for nobody knows the heart but God. An example of a good work could be something as simple as smiling at another, when prompted by the Spirit. And we all know how a smile can brighten another's day, possibly especially toward total strangers. Good works do not have to be anything like going to a foreign country to become a missionary :)
Click to expand...
Where had your previous post gone re Fran
 
S

shrume

Senior Member
#46,946
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
464
83
#46,946
dcontroversal said:
Amen and even one apple proves an apple tree....and even deeper than that...an apple tree is an apple tree from the moment it sprouts though it may not produce one piece of fruit for years.......
Click to expand...
What if there are no apples?

(...just playing the devil's advocate here.. :) )
 
I

Inquistor

Banned
#46,949
Dec 14, 2017
408
2
0
#46,949
shrume said:
Not to make this whole conversation worse, but is that an absolute, or can a truly saved Christian* say "no" to doing good works?

(* for the record, I believe that anyone who is a Christian is truly saved. And by Christian, I do not mean a person who -calls- himself a Christian, but a person who has confessed Jesus as Lord and believed in his heart that God raised him from the dead, becoming born again of the Holy Spirit.)
Click to expand...

Very interesting observing from a very unlikely source!


Why "Know Them By Their Deeds?" | Atheist ...
www.atheistrev.com/2007/08/why-know-them-by-their-de...▼
Aug 8, 2007 ... The meaning of the "know them by their deeds" phrase comes from the Christian bible. Matthew 7:16 reads, "Ye shall know them by their fruits," and translators of the Greek and Hebrew generally interpret "fruit" as "deed," "act," or "work." The meaning of the phrase is that it is often misleading to base one's ...
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#46,950
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,439
113
#46,950
Ralph- said:
It must not because you can't show us what in the Bible refutes that Paul said if you 'live like this' you will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus comes back and you are still 'living like this' showing yourself to be unsaved.
Click to expand...
Paul states that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But Paul also states to some "this is what you were"

You know that, I know that and DC knows that.
I'm sure that you, me DC and many others on this site would say "Hey what you are doing now it's what you were, but it's not what you are now" reveal Romans 5-6.

We need to be very careful to judge what works quantify faith and salvation.
 
stillness

stillness

Senior Member
#46,951
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
#46,951
Ralph- said:
You agree the life of the saved person is transformed. Then you say the saved person doesn't have to be transformed and that you're being hateful and judgmental and self righteous to quote the Bible that says the not transformed, lawless person who 'lives like this' will not inherit the kingdom. No wonder the world thinks we're idiots.
Click to expand...
Many believe they are saved by their understanding of God's word, even though they know better and understand this: "Lean not on your understanding but trust in the Lord."
Admit it's hard to get past what we think we know and we need to, to keep learning.
"If any man thinks he knows, he doesn't know as he should."
If we are still in the mind of the flesh: still in charge, we will defend our view and it will be challenging and invigorating, until eventually we see pride of achievement and not Love of God motivating.
The cost to get past what we think we know is to "Suffer the loss of all things, that we may gain Christ."
 
Last edited:
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#46,953
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#46,953
Ralph- said:
You agree the life of the saved person is transformed.
Click to expand...
Yep.

Then you say the saved person doesn't have to be transformed
Click to expand...
Nope, you're lying, I've never said that.

And that you're being hateful and judgmental and self righteous to quote the Bible that says the not transformed, lawless person who 'lives like this' will not inherit the kingdom.
Click to expand...
Never said that either. More lies.

No wonder the world thinks we're idiots.
Click to expand...
I'm not lumped in with you on that assessment, you're speaking for yourself. It is understandable though. :D

People who 'live like this' are NOT truly saved-Galatians 5:21. You should know this. Why do you not know the Bible? And if you do know it why do you say it's not true?
Click to expand...
Even more lies. How is it that you lie so much? And hate your brothers? You're aware that none who practice this behavior of yours will inherit the kingdom, right?
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#46,954
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,439
113
#46,954
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#46,955
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#46,955
Inquistor said:
How valuable and/or useful is faith ... WITHOUT WORKS?


Bible Search: faith without works is dead
Click to expand...
Faith alone saves and justifies before God....yanking James out of context will never equate to a works embellished salvation...

Paul, Romans ->>faith alone saves and justifies before God

JAMES...the above faith that saves and justifies before God without works is seen by men based upon the works and fruit that Christ does through us as a living sacrifice.

And why is it that all workers for FAIL to acknowledge that Jesus said that ALL WHO HAVE BELIEVED HAVE DONE THE WORKS OF THE FATHER ALREADY?????????
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#46,956
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#46,956
BillG said:
Let's reverse it.
How valuable are works without faith?

We can work all we want but it means nothing.
Pharisees come to mind.

Faith produces works, works do not produce faith.

We are saved by works to do good works.
Click to expand...
We are saved by faith UNTO good works......not BY.....
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#46,957
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,439
113
#46,957
dcontroversal said:
We are saved by faith UNTO good works......not BY.....
Click to expand...
Yeh that's what I meant

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#46,959
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,439
113
#46,959
dcontroversal said:
Faith alone saves and justifies before God....yanking James out of context will never equate to a works embellished salvation...

Paul, Romans ->>faith alone saves and justifies before God

JAMES...the above faith that saves and justifies before God without works is seen by men based upon the works and fruit that Christ does through us as a living sacrifice.

And why is it that all workers for FAIL to acknowledge that Jesus said that ALL WHO HAVE BELIEVED HAVE DONE THE WORKS OF THE FATHER ALREADY?????????
Click to expand...

Because they do not see or have seen to following
John 6:29


29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Another biggy missed is

John 17:23
23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
if we don't get his love for us what are we going to do?

Try to earn it.

Why try to earn what we already have and are?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.