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And what of the Christian image? The image of all religion is the religious system itself. Christianity can no more save an individual than islam as they indeed do not have eyes to see or ears to hear. We nonetheless give them a mouth to speak! In a way, I agree with Islam's ontological approach to God in that there will always be that Spirit. That self awareness or state of being that everyone has. Until death, all anyone knows is that they simply are.
C
If you are not able to compare ontologically, the God of Christianity and the god of Islam, they you are far less capable than I thought. Since you agree with Islam's approach to god, you should begin with their five duties. I have not heard you perform the Shahadah. You may be more accepting of Islam than they are of you.
I
Again, you focus on the image of Islam. If I happen to perform their five duties, I do so knowing that it is lawful for me! It's not expidient for me because my faith is strong enough to know that if won't bring me any closer to God. So for me it has no value. But if out of respect, I choose to do it, again my faith is strong enough not to be brought under the power of that image. I am a free man. So ask yourself what is more important. The Muslim performing their five duties or the faith behind it? For he, being weak in faith, I will not destroy going to the law. Being strong in faith, I would rather do it with him in his house than to make him doubt as anything that is not of faith is sin!
C
You are turning your freedom into your own brand of negative universalism, in which theoretically everyone is saved but actually none are. "Faith in what" is the question. You answer seems to be faith in anything, yet you deem us all to fall short because ultimately we express ourselves verbally, creating what you call an image and therefore, since it is by sight, no longer are we walking by faith.
What is more important is who you have faith into--as our Lord said, "No one comes to the Father except by Me [Jesus]." You have a faith unfocused. I have a faith focused.
What is more important is who you have faith into--as our Lord said, "No one comes to the Father except by Me [Jesus]." You have a faith unfocused. I have a faith focused.
1 JOHN 2:22. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son.
23. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the
Father: [but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath
the Father also.
Since both Islam and Judaism reject Jesus as the Christ, neither has
the Father either! Any questions?
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son.
23. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the
Father: [but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath
the Father also.
Since both Islam and Judaism reject Jesus as the Christ, neither has
the Father either! Any questions?
I
I agree in the "faith in what". But most, including you tend to put your faith more in Christianity than our Lord. The Muslim is the same way. You say your faith is focused. On what? Or rather who as you put it? How is one to demonstrate his faith in a man he has never seen? Expressing ourselves verbally is not the problem. Speaking evil and bringing accusation against things we don't understand IS however. Again, who are we to judge the servant of another man? Yes Jesus said that no one comes to the Father except by Him. But Jesus also said that no one can come to Him unless the Father draws him. Now if no one comes to the Father except through Jesus, and no one comes to JESUS unless the Father draws him, what is then the true lesson that should be learned from this?
C
You have decided that no one goes to the Father. You know nothing about Islam (and do not care) but you assume that anyone who comes to Christian Chat puts their trust in a religious system rather than Jesus Christ. You tell me not to judge, but you are indeed setting yourself up as judge. You said that I put more faith in Christianity than in our Lord. You made that judgement. You said that I am bringing accusation against something I do not understand. You made that judgement. You have decided to try to teach me something that you do not understand yourself--how to love the one who is lost. You refuse to be my brother when His word says that no part of the body can say to another, I have no need of you. You stand outside the church that our Lord established to condemn only. You know little of your own faith and nothing of Islam. and worse of all, you don't care. All the Moslems are to you are a tool you can use for condemnation. I care enough to do something that some might be saved. that is the true lesson that you need to learn from this.
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Luke 6:45-46
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
46And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
How do you accept or deny the Lord?
i accept HIM at HIS WORD (BIBLE, KJV), but i deny HIM with the sins i still find myself committing, even though i wish i would not.
ANd i make no mistake about it, if i find myself sinning (1Jn3:8), then i know i am not HOLY (1Pt2:21-22), and therefore, i am as one
who is luke warm (Rev3:16) and who shall not see the LORD (Heb12:14). But yet i find hope in the scriptures, knowing Jesus is
understanding and will forgive me when i truly repent (1Jn1:9).
ANd i make no mistake about it, if i find myself sinning (1Jn3:8), then i know i am not HOLY (1Pt2:21-22), and therefore, i am as one
who is luke warm (Rev3:16) and who shall not see the LORD (Heb12:14). But yet i find hope in the scriptures, knowing Jesus is
understanding and will forgive me when i truly repent (1Jn1:9).
I
Why put words into my mouth? I never mentioned Christian Chat. You did. I also stated that the Muslim does this as well as this is not the Muslim Chat line. I never said I didn't need you as ALL are the body of Christ. I learned a lot since joining. Whom have I condemned? The message I preach is the same as it has always been on this subject. To examine yourself first. I don't condemn a Muslim. He is my brother and neighbor.
1 Corinthians 2:11-16
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
I don't judge you, only the situation. You're right. I don't know much about Islam. But how could I call Islam evil when the book I do study is filled with as much sex and violence as the Qu'ran? We must understand our own book in order to have anything to say about someone elses. And if you truly care about saving some then why not simply follow the Bible's example.
1 Corinthians 9:19-23
For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
I am free from all men, yet I made myself a servant to all. So to the Muslim I will become as a Muslim that I might gain the Muslims. Praying five times a day cannot harm me. It is when one allows themselves to be brought under that power that it becomes dangerous.
1 Corinthians 2:11-16
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
I don't judge you, only the situation. You're right. I don't know much about Islam. But how could I call Islam evil when the book I do study is filled with as much sex and violence as the Qu'ran? We must understand our own book in order to have anything to say about someone elses. And if you truly care about saving some then why not simply follow the Bible's example.
1 Corinthians 9:19-23
For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
I am free from all men, yet I made myself a servant to all. So to the Muslim I will become as a Muslim that I might gain the Muslims. Praying five times a day cannot harm me. It is when one allows themselves to be brought under that power that it becomes dangerous.
C
Except that Gentile isn't a religion (nor really is Jew). Islam is. To the Satanist would you become a Satanist? To the atheist, would you become an atheist? To one who worships the AntiChrist, would you become as one who worships the AntiChrist. If you want to become an Arab to save Arabs, do so. But don't allow them to remain in darkness at the danger of their souls.
I
Again, you can only focus on the religion. I'm not trying to save Islam. Then you insult me by speaking of people who do not share that common thread of belief in God. The antiChrist is not a person in particular, but a spirit which works in the hearts of the children of disobedience. Many now worship this spirit and don't even know it. So again, we must make sure that OUR light is true or else how could one being blind lead the blind?
We our brothers if we follow Jesus, so the Muslim and 'Jew' are not brothers at all, but our neighbors who are enemies of the Cross,
whom we should have compasion for since they are lost. AS far as judging goes, judge within the 'church', not without (outside) it.
But remember, it is not us who judges, but the WORD of GOD. so use it to judge, because you can claim you did not write it, and that
they should take it up with the author, who is GOD.
whom we should have compasion for since they are lost. AS far as judging goes, judge within the 'church', not without (outside) it.
But remember, it is not us who judges, but the WORD of GOD. so use it to judge, because you can claim you did not write it, and that
they should take it up with the author, who is GOD.
C
'' How to give advises to someone, or how to correct someone etc. '' (written by a brother, thought it might be useful even for non-muslims)
I am creating this thread since it is badly needed nowadays. I admit that most of what I am posting is not backed by anything I have read from classical books, since I am not a student of knowledge. Rather, it is just based on what I have witnessed from the behavior of Ustadh Ayman bin Khaled, a real gem of a person. May Allah [swt] reward him! No other man can tolerate my stupidity as much as he can!
1. Start with "as-salam alaykum" (Peace be upon you) and "bismillah" .
This will cool your heart and purify your intention. You will give the person salam (peace), and you will also start in the Name of Allah [swt]; few people can curse someone out after they say bismillah!
2. Begin with praise before criticism.
If you are going to criticize someone, then start out with praise. For example, if you are going to criticize Dr. Zakir Naik for something he said which was wrong, then start with praise, acknowledging all his good work in the field of dawah. This is a part of softening the heart and purifying the intention as well (since you won't post any of this if you are just posting to bash him, instead of with the intention to give naseeha (advise)). So this will be like "We recognize and appreciate your tireless efforts in the field of dawah and inter-faith debate."
3. Use a title of respect to refer to the person, such as "brother", or "Ustadh" or "Shaykh", etc, if the latter are appropriate. Add words around this to beautify your speech, such as "esteemed Shaykh" or "my beloved brother", etc. Such titles are MORE IMPORTANT to use when criticizing someone. You can refer to someone as "Anwar" if you are just talking about him normally, but when you are giving criticism of him, then it becomes VERY IMPORTANT to say Imam Anwar. And it would be even better to say the word "HafidhuAllah" after his name...make sure to do all these things *every* time you mention his name!
4. Begin by asking for forgiveness for criticizing, such as "Forgive me for my audacity, dear Shaykh" and the like.
5. Try to reconcile views. This is where I have seen Ustadh Ayman seriously excel at. Two people could be arguing about something, and they are in fact saying stuff that is opposite to each other...but to soften and reconcile the hearts, the Ustadh will reconcile what the two are saying, so that both parties don't think that they were TOTALLY wrong. So it is something like this: "Brother Bassam you are correct in saying this-and-this, but in certain situations such as this-and-that, then brother Fareed is correct in saying that"....and things like "actually you are not saying two opposite things, rather..." etc
Indeed, you really have to see Ustadh Ayman do this to know what I mean!
6. Close with du`a, but never say "may Allah guide you" or anything else which is understood as an insult. It is sad how oftentimes we use du`as as insults! If you really wanted Allah [swt] to guide a person, then say that quietly in your own room; no need to announce it to that person's face. Rather, that is done to make it clear to the person that he is misguided! So the intention is not to actually pray to Allah [swt] but to insult another person! So what is better is to include yourself in the du`a, saying "may Allah [swt] guide you and I to all that which is right." This will soften the hearts, and ensure that no ill intent was meant!
7. Avoid using nicknames and labels. This is very important, because this is what hurts peoples' feelings the most. So one should not call another person a "defeatist" or a "khariji" [this is me using tip #6 in giving naseeha ] ...such labels should be avoided...even when a person is doing something that falls under that category, still avoid it! The Quran says:
"Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong." (Quran, 49:11)
And nicknames like "o degenerate" and "o wicked one" are not to be used, so what of these worse labels that we invent against each other?
8. Speak in general terms, and do not single out the person, but rather warn the person of those other people, keeping it general. So instead of saying "you are deaf, dumb, and blind", say "O brothers and sisters, remember that the Quran describes the kufaar as 'deaf, dumb, and blind...' so let us not be like that insha-Allah!" Always try to include yourself in whatever you say.
9. Do not post now, but post after 30 minutes. Chances are you will cooler after 30 minutes, and won't post the same way. (This is courtesy of bro Jund al-Islam.)
10. Use smiley faces all over the place. If you don't believe in smiley faces, then you can write out the word "smile" as Ustadh Ayman does. *smile* Smiling softens the hearts, and so it should be done in its e-form, insha-Allah.
11. End with praise of the person and ask for forgiveness. So this is the sandwich approach, whereby your criticism is packaged between praise.
Peace
I am creating this thread since it is badly needed nowadays. I admit that most of what I am posting is not backed by anything I have read from classical books, since I am not a student of knowledge. Rather, it is just based on what I have witnessed from the behavior of Ustadh Ayman bin Khaled, a real gem of a person. May Allah [swt] reward him! No other man can tolerate my stupidity as much as he can!
1. Start with "as-salam alaykum" (Peace be upon you) and "bismillah" .
This will cool your heart and purify your intention. You will give the person salam (peace), and you will also start in the Name of Allah [swt]; few people can curse someone out after they say bismillah!
2. Begin with praise before criticism.
If you are going to criticize someone, then start out with praise. For example, if you are going to criticize Dr. Zakir Naik for something he said which was wrong, then start with praise, acknowledging all his good work in the field of dawah. This is a part of softening the heart and purifying the intention as well (since you won't post any of this if you are just posting to bash him, instead of with the intention to give naseeha (advise)). So this will be like "We recognize and appreciate your tireless efforts in the field of dawah and inter-faith debate."
3. Use a title of respect to refer to the person, such as "brother", or "Ustadh" or "Shaykh", etc, if the latter are appropriate. Add words around this to beautify your speech, such as "esteemed Shaykh" or "my beloved brother", etc. Such titles are MORE IMPORTANT to use when criticizing someone. You can refer to someone as "Anwar" if you are just talking about him normally, but when you are giving criticism of him, then it becomes VERY IMPORTANT to say Imam Anwar. And it would be even better to say the word "HafidhuAllah" after his name...make sure to do all these things *every* time you mention his name!
4. Begin by asking for forgiveness for criticizing, such as "Forgive me for my audacity, dear Shaykh" and the like.
5. Try to reconcile views. This is where I have seen Ustadh Ayman seriously excel at. Two people could be arguing about something, and they are in fact saying stuff that is opposite to each other...but to soften and reconcile the hearts, the Ustadh will reconcile what the two are saying, so that both parties don't think that they were TOTALLY wrong. So it is something like this: "Brother Bassam you are correct in saying this-and-this, but in certain situations such as this-and-that, then brother Fareed is correct in saying that"....and things like "actually you are not saying two opposite things, rather..." etc
Indeed, you really have to see Ustadh Ayman do this to know what I mean!
6. Close with du`a, but never say "may Allah guide you" or anything else which is understood as an insult. It is sad how oftentimes we use du`as as insults! If you really wanted Allah [swt] to guide a person, then say that quietly in your own room; no need to announce it to that person's face. Rather, that is done to make it clear to the person that he is misguided! So the intention is not to actually pray to Allah [swt] but to insult another person! So what is better is to include yourself in the du`a, saying "may Allah [swt] guide you and I to all that which is right." This will soften the hearts, and ensure that no ill intent was meant!
7. Avoid using nicknames and labels. This is very important, because this is what hurts peoples' feelings the most. So one should not call another person a "defeatist" or a "khariji" [this is me using tip #6 in giving naseeha ] ...such labels should be avoided...even when a person is doing something that falls under that category, still avoid it! The Quran says:
"Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong." (Quran, 49:11)
And nicknames like "o degenerate" and "o wicked one" are not to be used, so what of these worse labels that we invent against each other?
8. Speak in general terms, and do not single out the person, but rather warn the person of those other people, keeping it general. So instead of saying "you are deaf, dumb, and blind", say "O brothers and sisters, remember that the Quran describes the kufaar as 'deaf, dumb, and blind...' so let us not be like that insha-Allah!" Always try to include yourself in whatever you say.
9. Do not post now, but post after 30 minutes. Chances are you will cooler after 30 minutes, and won't post the same way. (This is courtesy of bro Jund al-Islam.)
10. Use smiley faces all over the place. If you don't believe in smiley faces, then you can write out the word "smile" as Ustadh Ayman does. *smile* Smiling softens the hearts, and so it should be done in its e-form, insha-Allah.
11. End with praise of the person and ask for forgiveness. So this is the sandwich approach, whereby your criticism is packaged between praise.
Peace
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I
He died for the sins.
Proverbs 24:16
For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
Even a just man falls so you cannot deny Him with your sins. How do we accept or deny Him?
Matthew 25:31-46
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
We are told to be holy. To be set apart.
1 Peter 1:13-25
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
But you are honest with yourself as am I. As long as breath is in me there lies a chance I will fall. But have peace in knowing that Jesus has overcome the world!
Proverbs 24:16
For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
Even a just man falls so you cannot deny Him with your sins. How do we accept or deny Him?
Matthew 25:31-46
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
We are told to be holy. To be set apart.
1 Peter 1:13-25
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
But you are honest with yourself as am I. As long as breath is in me there lies a chance I will fall. But have peace in knowing that Jesus has overcome the world!