GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[Jackson123]

Is the Messiah tellling the truth or is He mistaken here:

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Exodus 10:25

“And Moses said, Thou must give us also sacrifices and burnt offerings, that we may sacrifice unto the LORD our God.”
​

brother Hisikyah,

some law are change because we are in different covenant. We are in new covenant. Sabbath law is old covenant

that verse above is Example the OT that not Being practiced anymore, not because that verse pass away, but that verse is design for temporary, specifically for Israel in O T.

 

[Hizikyah]

Exodus 10:25

“And Moses said, Thou must give us also sacrifices and burnt offerings, that we may sacrifice unto the LORD our God.”
​

brother Hisikyah,

some law are change because we are in different covenant. We are in new covenant. Sabbath law is old covenant

that verse above is Example the OT that not Being practiced anymore, not because that verse pass away, but that verse is design for temporary, specifically for Israel in O T.

It was the levites role to make the sacrifices and offerings, now Yahshua sits as the High Priest.

also that does not change what Yahshua said:


Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Has heaven and earth passed? if not the Law is still in effect.

I am in full belief that Yahshua as Passover Lamb and as High Priest is able to / already ahs made sufficent sacrifice.

 

[Jackson123]

It was the levites role to make the sacrifices and offerings, now Yahshua sits as the High Priest.

also that does not change what Yahshua said:


Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Has heaven and earth passed? if not the Law is still in effect.

I am in full belief that Yahshua as Passover Lamb and as High Priest is able to / already ahs made sufficent sacrifice.

yup Jesus make New covenant, so we not do Old covenant anymore, It is not change because It plan from begining, when new come, old pass.

 

[Hizikyah]

yup Jesus make New covenant, so we not do Old covenant anymore, It is not change because It plan from begining, when new come, old pass.

A wonderful blessing beyond anything we can understand IMO, PraiseYah!

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 4:14-15, "Seeing then that we have a great High Priest Who has ascended into the heavens: Yahshua the Son of YHWH, let us hold fast our profession. For we do not have a High Priest Who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all ways tempted as we are--yet was without sin."

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 89:26-37, “He will call out to Me; ‘You are My Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of My salvation!’ And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish His Seed forever, and His throne will be as the days of heaven. Should His children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from Him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness, I cannot lie, and I say to David; His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky.”[/FONT]

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 27 [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is my light and my salvation; Whom should I fear? [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is the refuge of my life; Whom should I dread? When evil-doers come against me To eat up my flesh, My adversaries and my enemies, They shall stumble and fall. Though an army encamps against me, My heart does not fear; Though battle comes up against me, Even then I would be trusting. One matter I asked of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה – [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]this I seek: To dwell in the House of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]All the days of my life, To see the pleasantness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], And to inquire in His Temple. For in the day of evil He hides me in His booth; In the covering of His Tent He hides me; On a rock He raises me up. And now my head is lifted up above my enemies all around me; And I offer in His Tent with shouts of joy; I sing, yea, I sing praises to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. Hear, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], when I cry with my voice! And show me favor, and answer me. To my heart You have said, “Seek My face.” Your face, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], I seek. Do not hide Your face from me; Do not turn Your servant away in displeasure; You have been my help; Do not leave me nor forsake me, O Strength of my salvation. When my father and my mother have forsaken me, Then [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]does take me in. Teach me Your way, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], And lead me in a smooth path, because of my enemies. Do not give me over To the desire of my adversaries; For false witnesses have risen against me, And they breathe out cruelty to me. What if I had not believed To see the goodness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In the land of the living! Wait on [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], be strong, And let Him strengthen your heart! Wait, I say, on [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]!”[/FONT]

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[stillness]

Everyone should be thankful that we are free from the law: like entering His presence with thankviving. "Sin shall not have dominion over you for you are not under the law but under grace." If we are not thankful we will lose what we have and look for something else. There is no other way to enter His presence: than with thanksgiving.

 

[posthuman]

James 2
8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

James says breaking one part of "the Law" is tantamount to breaking all of it - and the example he gives is breaking what you call an "ordinance"

No he does not as shown through the scriptures above.

excuse me but yes he does, according to the scripture above.

But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
​

a proscription against having respect of persons - showing partiality - is not found in Exodus 20:1-17

that command is found in Leviticus 19.

aren't you saying everything other than Exodus 20:1-17 is "ordinances" ((not God's Law, according to your argument)) and only Exodus 20:1-17 is "Law" ?

 

[posthuman]

Paul even calls Genesis "the Law" ((Galatians 4:21-31))
v24 Paul uses an allegory of the two Covenants (Hagar and Sarah)

yeah. guess what he calls it.

Tell me, you who want to be under the law,
are you not aware of what the law says?
​

that's verse 24.
you wrote "v.24" but you sure didn't quote it!
did you hear it?

then he tells us what the law says​ by reciting from Genesis & quoting from Isaiah. he does actually mention Exodus 20 --

One covenant is from Mount Sinai
and bears children who are to be slaves:
This is Hagar.
​

guess where Exodus 20:1-17 happened?
yep.
Mt. Sinai.

Therefore, brothers and sisters,
we are not children of the slave woman,
but of the free woman.




​

 

[posthuman]

But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin,
and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law,
and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.​

if i can break "ordinances" and not be guilty of breaking the whole Law, and "the Law" consists only of Exodus 20:1-17, then i can show partiality to the rich ((this is the exactly context of James 2, read vv. 1-7)) and not be guilty of sin, because showing partiality is a "mere ordinance"
i don't have to love my neighbor because that's only an ordinance from Leviticus 19, it's not part of Exodus 20:1-17.
i don't have to love God, that's only an ordinance, from Deuteronomy 6 not Deuteronomy 5.
i don't have to love mercy - that's not in Exodus 20 or Deuteronomy 5.
i don't have to walk humbly before God -- that's not in "THE SACRED 10"

as long as i mock the sabbath on saturday instead of sunday, it's cool, right?

i don't think that's what scripture says.

 

[posthuman]

guess we're going to have to figure out a way to break apart not only "the Law" but also "the ordinances" into piles we like and piles we don't, too.

 

[vic1980]

The main issue that i have observed in all these threads upon the Sabbath , thee members that partake on these post , in almost ever ocassion wrestle with one another , with either scripture or personal opinions.

But let us all pull back for a bit on our defensive stance , and remind each other why , did He appointed His people this day for ???

What was the purpose of this day, was it created to praise Him , & if so please explain how is this being under the Law ???

To praise God Almight , on the day , He himself has ordained ???

Shalom

 

[Jackson123]

The main issue that i have observed in all these threads upon the Sabbath , thee members that partake on these post , in almost ever ocassion wrestle with one another , with either scripture or personal opinions.

But let us all pull back for a bit on our defensive stance , and remind each other why , did He appointed His people this day for ???

What was the purpose of this day, was it created to praise Him , & if so please explain how is this being under the Law ???

To praise God Almight , on the day , He himself has ordained ???

Shalom

He ordained that day for Israel, in the old covenant. He ordained new covenant for us, to worship Him every day with the spirit and truth

He command Israel man for circumcision, He command us for spiritual circumcision.

 

[posthuman]

What was the purpose of this day, was it created to praise Him , & if so please explain how is this being under the Law ???

But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying,
‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.'
(Exodus 31:13)

Also I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.
(Ezekiel 20:12)

​

"a sign"

it is not for us to sanctify ourselves but for Him to sanctify us.
not our labors, but His.

 

[LoveGodForever]

James 2
8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

James says breaking one part of "the Law" is tantamount to breaking all of it - and the example he gives is breaking what you call an "ordinance"

No he does not as shown through the scriptures above.

excuse me but yes he does, according to the scripture above. But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. a proscription against having respect of persons - showing partiality - is not found in Exodus 20:1-17 that command is found in Leviticus 19.

Well posthuman, really? Seems you did not read or understand post # 1976. very carefully.

Maybe you should take your time to reply and read what has been posted carefully and pray about it.

You seem to be confused using the same English word for "Ordinance" between the English, Hebrew and Greek languages where you have tried to use OT scriptures to link God's Law (10 commandments) to the Mosaic laws for remission of sin but leaving out other parts of the scriptures you quote from the Old Testament scripture. This was the same problem with some of the NT scriptures you quoted as well.

For example... you quoted in the post I addressed above already that I helped you with in post # 1976 . For example you quoted earlier........

Leviticus 19
4, Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances , to walk therein: I am the LORD your God.
5, Ye shall therefore keep my statutes , and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live i n them: I am the LORD.

you said........

what Moses calls "statues and ordinances" Paul calls "the Law"I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”
(Romans 7:7)

What you not looking at again which has already been shown with scripture in Post # 1956 is the separation of God's Law and the Mosaic law. This is the reason the OT scripture you quote from Lev 19:4-5 separates judgements and ordinances.

This was further shown in the Greek word used in Col 2:14 and Eph 2 the Word "Ordinance" being used is G1378 δόγμα; dogma; dog'-mah From the base of G1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical laws): - decree, ordinance.

In your last post # 1976 we went through each of the scriptures you provided one by one to highlight what you left out and how they were referring to either God's Law or the Mosaic laws.

Then we went through the scriptures from John, James, and Paul's showing that indeed they make clear separation of what they are talking about as either God's Law (10 Commandments) or the Mosaic laws for remission of sin for which you claimed they did not.

Not to mention all the scriptures that was provided to you in Post # 1956; Post # 1959; Post # 1966; Post # 1967; Post # 1968; Post # 1969 answering all your questions and showing the scriptures through the Old and New Covenants showing the purposes of God's Law (10 commandments) and the Mosaic shadow laws for the remission of sin
and all the questions I asked you that you ignored in post # 1970 (linked).

aren't you saying everything other than Exodus 20:1-17 is "ordinances" ((not God's Law, according to your argument)) and only Exodus 20:1-17 is "Law" ?

No this is only something that you have said. I have said only what I have said nothing more and nothing less. Let your yes be yes and your no be no anything else is of the devil.

Friend there is so much scripture in the linked posts provided above that are against your interpretation of the scriptures. I would like to suggest in all respect and love that you at least consider the posts provided to you and pray about them and the questions in them. If you find yourself building your house on the sand and not on the rock great will be the fall of it.

SIN will keep all who knowingly practice it out of the Kingdom of Heaven.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we break any one of the ten we stand guilty before God of SIN (James 2:8-11) and need to repent and seek his forgiveness (Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9). Those that continue a life in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is NO SCRIPTURE that says that God's 4th commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now COMMAN DED to keep Sunday as a HOLY day..................

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

 

[LoveGodForever]

if i can break "ordinances" and not be guilty of breaking the whole Law, and "the Law" consists only of Exodus 20:1-17, then i can show partiality to the rich ((this is the exactly context of James 2, read vv. 1-7)) and not be guilty of sin, because showing partiality is a "mere ordinance" i don't have to love my neighbor because that's only an ordinance from Leviticus 19, it's not part of Exodus 20:1-17. i don't have to love God, that's only an ordinance, from Deuteronomy 6 not Deuteronomy 5. i don't have to love mercy - that's not in Exodus 20 or Deuteronomy 5. i don't have to walk humbly before God -- that's not in "THE SACRED 10" as long as i mock the sabbath on saturday instead of sunday, it's cool, right? i don't think that's what scripture says.

guess we're going to have to figure out a way to break apart not only "the Law" but also "the ordinances" into piles we like and piles we don't, too.

In Col 2 and Ephesians 2 the Word "Ordinance" being used is G1378 δόγμα; dogma; dog'-mah From the base of G1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical laws):

For example if you look at Colossians 2:14 the CONTEXT of v16-17 it reads..........

Colossians 2
14, BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The Greek words used here is handwriting G5498 χειρόγραφον; cheirographon; which means; hand written legal document which is combined with ordinance G1378 δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; which means; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law: - decree;

The Greek meaning of handwriting of ordinances in V14 is a hand written legal document or book of civil, ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws. These are the laws referred to in verse 14 that have been erased and are nailed to the cross.

Q. What is the legal written document or book (handwriting of ordinances) that includes the civil, ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws referring to?

A. The Mosaic laws for remission of sin that were written by Moses in the book of the law (see Exodus 24:5; Numbers 25:11; Deuteronomy 29:21; 31:24-26)

Now as you can see and with the scriptures provided with the other posts that the purpose of God's Law (10 commandments) is for the knowledge of SIN and righteousness and the Mosaic Shadow laws of the Old Covenant being for the forgiveness of SIN being shadows only, pointing to Jesus as our true sacrificial Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world to those who BELIEVE and our Great High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary not made with hands, the Mosaic laws for remission of SINS are FULFILLED in Christ. How can you be guilty of something that no longer applies to someone under the NEW Covenant?

You have the Greek Word for Ordinances where are referring to the Mosaic laws written in the book of Moses for the remission of SINS mixed up with God's LAW (10 commandments) the description of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS which are forever, and the standards of the Old and NEW Covenants and the Judgment to come.

..........................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we break any one of the ten we stand guilty before God of SIN (James 2:8-11) and need to repent and seek his forgiveness (Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9). Those that continue a life in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is NO SCRIPTURE that says that God's 4th commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now COMMAN DED to keep Sunday as a HOLY day..................

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Paul even calls Genesis "the Law" ((Galatians 4:21-31))
v24 Paul uses an allegory of the two Covenants (Hagar and Sarah)

yeah. guess what he calls it. Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? that's verse 24. you wrote "v.24" but you sure didn't quote it! did you hear it? then he tells us what the law says​ by reciting from Genesis & quoting from Isaiah. he does actually mention Exodus 20 -- One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. guess where Exodus 20:1-17 happened? yep. Mt. Sinai. Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

Yes this was a correction to you saying that Paul even calls Genesis the law how can you make a distinction.

Do you really want to change the subject now and talk about another topic without addressing any of the post with all the scriptures and questions I have sent you already? I posted this somewhere else but seems relevant here....

What amazes me is in CC is that when people have their beliefs challenged and get pinned down with scripture and have no where to hide, they quickly change the subject in order to ignore all the scriptures and questions posted to them.

The scripture is then fulfilled spoken by Jesus and Paul;

Well spake the Holy Ghost by Isaiah the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

What a shame to have the Word of God come to you and you choose to reject it.

So is fulfilled the scriptures men loved darkness rather then light because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

How sad it will be for some on Judgement day who choose to follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God over the Word of God.

Jesus will say depart from my you who work iniquity I never KNEW YOU. They did not KNOW God's Word for themselves and decided to let others interpret it for them who were indeed blind leading all who followed them away from God.

UNBELIEF and SIN will keep all who practice it out of the Kingdom of Heaven. Only the BELIEVERS and FOLLOWERS of God's Word are His people...

 

[posthuman]

For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God.
(Galatians 2:19)

◄ 3551. nomos ►
Strong's Concordance
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law

hmm doesn't seem to be 'ordinances' that i have died to.

 

[LoveGodForever]

For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God.
(Galatians 2:19)

◄ 3551. nomos ►
Strong's Concordance
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law

hmm doesn't seem to be 'ordinances' that i have died to.

What does this have to do with anything we are talking about and what does it have to do with ordinance?

 

[posthuman]

What a shame to have the Word of God come to you and you choose to reject it.

not nearly the shame to hear that there actually is therefore now more condemnation for those who are in Christ

 

[LoveGodForever]

not nearly the shame to hear that there actually is therefore now more condemnation for those who are in Christ

There is only no condemnation to those that are in Christ if they BELIEVE and FOLLOW the Word of God. Those that are still in their SINS are still in condemnation because they have chosen not to BELIEVE and FOLLOW Him who loves all and rejected the GIFT of God's dear son

 

[posthuman]

What does this have to do with anything we are talking about and what does it have to do with ordinance?

Well it just seems that since i died to the Law, it's actually the ordinances that i am still enslaved to, so we're both wrong and both condemned.

Who will save us from this body of death?