Not By Works

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Endoscopy said:
As Paul pointed out we also have a sin nature in us combating with His Spirit. Unfortunately as he stated too often that sin nature wins.
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That's the wonderment of being covered by the pure royal blood of God Himself through the Son...as we are maturing in faith. Kept by His power until we know who and what we are. Then we become those young men in 1John, overcoming the wicked which is not just lies of the enemy, but the lies of our own humanity that tries to speak against the truth in Jesus Christ.

I am not a sinless perfectionist. I know full well the weaknesses we have in our own self. Those are 'gods" that we think are so important but Holy Spirit is always at work within us to do and to will of His own good pleasure.

There is the purging.

We may not see how victorious we have been in the faith until we reach glory in heaven.

Salvation is clearly by the work of Holy Spirit alone. For religion to try to interject our own attempts to be holy is so futile. No power.

But, faith in the promises of God will bring much to fruition.
 
stonesoffire said:
The word isnt church in the Greek. It's ekklesia. In Hebrew it's congregation. There was only Jewish synagogues until Pentecost. But, this has nothing to do with what I said.

Jesus came first to His own people. That's what I said. But, His mission as Saviour of the world wasn't known until Holy Spirit was poured out on Gentiles too. Then Jesus appears to Paul, and Paul receives the revelation of the church.
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No offence but every place the word church is used it is ekklesia and I am surprised you would grasp at that straw......
 
stonesoffire said:
How would you explain what happened when Jesus breathed on the disciples first, then sent Holy Spirit later to them?

This all does have to do with the topic not by works, for the work of Holy Spirit in our life, is just that. His work, not our own.
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Christ went back to his Father, he could not be here physically, the church he started was going to go everywhere and start churches, the Holy Spirot took his place as comforter and guide of the churches....THERE IS NOTHING special nor did the chirch stsrt on the 50th day.....the only people who make much todo about it are the charismatics......i say this with no heat nor attitude toward you....... :)
 
dcontroversal said:
No offence but every place the word church is used it is ekklesia and I am surprised you would grasp at that straw......
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I don't understand your point at all Dcon. Jesus was only speaking to Jews. There was no church. Only Synagogues. He came to His own first. Was rejected. That's in the Word.

Ecclesia means a religious gathering, not church.
 
stonesoffire said:
I don't understand your point at all Dcon. Jesus was only speaking to Jews. There was no church. Only Synagogues. He came to His own first. Was rejected. That's in the Word.
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Not hardly.....the material was prepared by John, immersed, and CALLED OUT <---EKKLESIA BY JESUS.....1st CHURCH began in his ministry.....his rejection was by the NATION as a whole as King and LORD...his disciples (church) did not reject him!
 
dcontroversal said:
Christ went back to his Father, he could not be here physically, the church he started was going to go everywhere and start churches, the Holy Spirot took his place as comforter and guide of the churches....THERE IS NOTHING special nor did the chirch stsrt on the 50th day.....the only people who make much todo about it are the charismatics......i say this with no heat nor attitude toward you....... :)
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true, He went back to Father. But, before He left, He breathes on His disciples. Spirit is pnuema, right? The Spirit of Christ. That conversion that happens when we repent and turn to God.

John 20:19 It was the evening of the first day of the week, and the doors of the house where the disciples had met were locked because they were afraid of the Jews. Jesus came and stood among them. He told them, "Peace be with you."

John 20:20 After saying this, he showed them his hands and his side, and when they saw the Lord the disciples were overjoyed.

Joh 20:21 Jesus told them again, "Peace be with you. Just as the Father has sent me, so I am sending you."


Joh 20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and told them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

This is after He ascends the first time and literally pours His blood on the mercy seat.

But, is before Pentecost. They still are told to wait for the power.

This is when they are born again. The power that they had before the Cross was His authority given as He was still with them. But, they were not yet born again because His Spirit was not yet given.

Power for witness by means of the anointing came at Pentecost. There can be two experiences, or one. Some receive the new birth and the baptism at the same time, and others not.

Am glad you aren't angry. I have a way of making a few here this way. :)

cant help it. Haters will hate.
 
dcontroversal said:
Not hardly.....the material was prepared by John, immersed, and CALLED OUT <---EKKLESIA BY JESUS.....1st CHURCH began in his ministry.....his rejection was by the NATION as a whole as King and LORD...his disciples (church) did not reject him!
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No, I would agree He wasn't rejected. But, they didn't believe or have faith He would rise again. And Peter denies he is a disciple.

Arent we to believe in our heart that He rose again for salvation?

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
 
Acts 7:37-38 This is that Moses who said unto the children of Israel, ‘A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you from your brethren, like unto me; Him shall ye hear.’ This is he, who in THE CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS was with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers—the one who received the living oracles to give unto us,
 
stonesoffire said:
No, I would agree He wasn't rejected. But, they didn't believe or have faith He would rise again. And Peter denies he is a disciple.

Arent we to believe in our heart that He rose again for salvation?

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
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As long as you keep believing, if you stop it's curtains! :D

Lasagna anyone? :p
 
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Seohce said:
Acts 7:37-38 This is that Moses who said unto the children of Israel, ‘A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you from your brethren, like unto me; Him shall ye hear.’ This is he, who in THE CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS was with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers—the one who received the living oracles to give unto us,
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yes, our English can screw up the scriptures.
 
dcontroversal said:
Take up your cross daily....die to flesh daily....I agree with your point....the contrast is between the two natures and a saved child of God still carries the old worn out bag-o-flesh around to contend with until death or transformation.....
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First, I have said whenever posting on this topic and since I have been here I do not believe when we are born again we are perfect in our mind or flesh or sinless. I still do not believe that. Salvation is by the finished work of Christ and his work alone and we cannot earn salvation or maintain salvation by our works.

I do believe when we are born again our spirit is made perfect and if we allow our spirit to by led by the Holy Spirit and through renewing our minds, partaking of the divine nature, crucifying our flesh, allowing fruit of the Spirit to manifest and understanding our position and salvation through Christ and his work alone, before God. Our mind and our flesh will become subject and obedient to our spirit. This is what the new man and how he is renewed and transformed to.

Renewing our minds, partaking of the divine nature, crucifying our flesh, allowing fruit of the Spirit to manifest and understanding our position and salvation is not working for or maintaining our salvation. It is our part in progressive sanctification. I will never be perfect or sinless, by when my perfect spirit is in control , I do not war agaisnt the flesh, because my spirit follows after the Spirit and has control over my flesh and mind. This is the whole truth of Romans 7:1 to Romans 8:1-17


No offense, I find it surprising you talk about being born again and still think we are powerless over sin and that we are at constant war with our flesh. You seem to label those that disagree with you as pushing sinless perfection. This seems to indicate a lack of understanding about the salvation we never earned, gave us. We get to be a new man in flesh and mind 100% in glory, but we also get to work towards that here and now and I think that is what you and some of your squad miss.
 
This is the Moshe who said to the people of Isra’el, ‘God will raise up a prophet like me from among your brothers’z 38 This is the man who was in the assembly in the wilderness, accompanied by the angel that had spoken to him at Mount Sinai and by our fathers, the man who was given living words to pass on to us.
 
preacher4truth said:
As long as you keep believing, if you stop it's curtains! :D

Lasagna anyone? :p
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You get hungry too easily but let me see...ok here...
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Romans 9:4-5 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
 
It's not so much our working, but cooperating with Holy Spirit by those things we do that edify us in our personal walk, and with one another.

Like studying the Word. Praying. Worship. Fellowship.

Whatever we do, do as unto the Lord.
 
And on that note...am taking time off to get our home ready for Christmas. No tree up yet, nor shopping done.

Back later...
 
preacher4truth said:
As long as you keep believing, if you stop it's curtains! :D

Lasagna anyone? :p
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So you adhere to the concept that you can lose your salvation. You ignore the fact that Jesus said those who are in His hand will never be taken from Him.

Methinks you need to push a reset button on your theology.
 
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