FLAT EARTH

[pckts]

Travel to Antarctica is not forbidden.
Thousands of tourists travel there every year.
There are certain areas that are restricted scientific research but don't you find it a little odd that if thousands of tourists are traveling there every year no one is ever seen the ice wall? It would be visible from the air

The cruises are $5,000, they don't let me get off and walk around and do whatever I want like an adventure out into the unknown. The "fly-cruises" are around $20,000, once again, I don't get to go off and do whatever I want. There is no commercial way to land and go off on adventures to the edge of the universe, they are controlled tourist "cruises".

 

[pckts]

Clearly, you are misunderstanding my assertion. I'm not claiming for a second that the Tropic moves! The probably is some variability, but essentially it is a fixed line due to the earth's tilt. What I am addressing is the appearance that the sun is more southerly.

Where I live in Canada, in the mornings from about late April to mid-September, the sun first appears at a point north of due east; in other words, far north of the Tropic of Cancer. It is not "directly above" that point, but it appears to be, given the tilt of the earth. Similarly, in the southern hemisphere in their summer, the morning sun appears at a point south of due east, though it is not directly above that point. At that time it would be directly above somewhere in the Southeastern Pacific, perhaps off the coast of Chile, but its nadir point (the point on the earth's surface at which the sun is directly overhead) is never further south than the Tropic of Capricorn.

The appearance of the sun as further north/south of the relevant Tropic line is due to the tilt of the roughly-spherical earth. I chose to focus on the Tropic of Capricorn because most of the maps and arguments place the centre of the earth at the north pole. Again, in that model of a flat earth, the sun can never even appear to be more southerly than the Tropic of Capricorn. The model simply doesn't allow for that possibility. From any point south of the Tropic of Capricorn, the sun must always appear to be further north... morning, noon, and evening, every day of the year. That's why the date of the photo is irrelevant.

This is basic geography; grade school level. Even if you finally reject my assertion, please at least do enough homework to understand it.

Yes I reject your assertion.

A personal anecdote about how things appeared to you is not evidence, easily dismissed by you being mistaken about what you think you saw. If you can provide me evidence of this phenomenon, or at the very least a source discussing it, that can move things along, a personal anecdote will not.

Give me something to prove this assertion that the tilt alters the sun's appearance to go past the tropic of Capricorn.

Even in grade school we didn't try to pass personal anecdotes off as evidence. If you can prove this it also isn't over, I will investigate if a similar phenomenon can occur on the flat earth, as of now I don't have to do this because you still haven't proven it occurs on the globe.

 

[Seedz]

I can type in any given address in America and my GPS on my phone will give me turn by turn instructions on how to get there. How do you suppose this works without satellites?

RF from the towers are perfectly capable of transmitting digital data protocol no problem.

How you do think you can do Wee-Fee....(WiFi of course I say wee fee because i think it sounds funny)

All the satellite does is send a wireless signal to you. The "advantage" is that it is way up in orbit and should be able to be in line of sight with another satellite to relay the signal eventually hitting your phone.

Towers do the same thing.

 

[Seedz]

RF from the towers are perfectly capable of transmitting digital data protocol no problem.

How you do think you can do Wee-Fee....(WiFi of course I say wee fee because i think it sounds funny)

All the satellite does is send a wireless signal to you. The "advantage" is that it is way up in orbit and should be able to be in line of sight with another satellite to relay the signal eventually hitting your phone.

Towers do the same thing.

How is it that you go camping away from the city and the signal sucks.

 

[tanakh]

Travel to Antarctica is not forbidden.
Thousands of tourists travel there every year.
There are certain areas that are restricted scientific research but don't you find it a little odd that if thousands of tourists are traveling there every year no one is ever seen the ice wall? It would be visible from the air

It appears that any excuse however suspect will do to maintain the flat Earth delusion. Now it appears that Tour operators are in on the conspiracy as well. That goes against their ambition of making a fortune from people wanting to see the edge of the earth. In any case you wouldnt need a Tour operator, only a map and the stamina to go it alone.

 

[Dude653]

It appears that any excuse however suspect will do to maintain the flat Earth delusion. Now it appears that Tour operators are in on the conspiracy as well. That goes against their ambition of making a fortune from people wanting to see the edge of the earth. In any case you wouldnt need a Tour operator, only a map and the stamina to go it alone.

Exactly. Tourist companies would make a fortune for people who wanted to see this alleged edge of the Earth for themselves. But as you said I guess they're in on the conspiracy too

 

[Seedz]

It appears that any excuse however suspect will do to maintain the flat Earth delusion. Now it appears that Tour operators are in on the conspiracy as well. That goes against their ambition of making a fortune from people wanting to see the edge of the earth. In any case you wouldnt need a Tour operator, only a map and the stamina to go it alone.

1. Realize that the average person is not fit to make such a trip to the edge. Even with a specialized tour, guides and the proper equipment, the edge is not easily accessible. Even if people wold pay millions of dollars to do it, the risk is too great. It is much farther than anyone realizes.

2. You need a lot of equipment and refueling stations.

3. Dying is more probable than returning on such a trek.

 

[Dino246]

Yes I reject your assertion.

A personal anecdote about how things appeared to you is not evidence, easily dismissed by you being mistaken about what you think you saw. If you can provide me evidence of this phenomenon, or at the very least a source discussing it, that can move things along, a personal anecdote will not.

Give me something to prove this assertion that the tilt alters the sun's appearance to go past the tropic of Capricorn.

Even in grade school we didn't try to pass personal anecdotes off as evidence. If you can prove this it also isn't over, I will investigate if a similar phenomenon can occur on the flat earth, as of now I don't have to do this because you still haven't proven it occurs on the globe.

I'm honestly surprised that you dismiss my explanation so quickly as a "personal anecdote". If you live in the continental US, you can see it for yourself, next summer. At either sunrise or sunset, note the first/last location in which you see the sun. That location, relative to your location, will be more to the north.

Although I can't demonstrate it, I can describe it. Get yourself a globe model, and put a marker at any point outside either Tropic. Tilt the globe roughly 23 degrees towards a bright light, and rotate it until the light just barely reaches that point, to simulate "sunrise" or "sunset" during the summer for that hemisphere. Then look "from" the point toward the light and note the direction on the globe in which you are looking. It will be outside the Tropic as well.

I don't own a globe so I can't take a picture for you, but the following image may help. In this image, the southwestern tip of Australia is about to experience "sunset". A straight line from that location toward the sun is analagous to the direction in which a person in that location would look to see the sun. The sun would be perceived to be southwest of that location. On the north-centric flat earth model, from that location, the sun would always appear to be "north" (northwest, northeast) of that location.

 

[pckts]

I'm honestly surprised that you dismiss my explanation so quickly as a "personal anecdote". If you live in the continental US, you can see it for yourself, next summer. At either sunrise or sunset, note the first/last location in which you see the sun. That location, relative to your location, will be more to the north.

Although I can't demonstrate it, I can describe it. Get yourself a globe model, and put a marker at any point outside either Tropic. Tilt the globe roughly 23 degrees towards a bright light, and rotate it until the light just barely reaches that point, to simulate "sunrise" or "sunset" during the summer for that hemisphere. Then look "from" the point toward the light and note the direction on the globe in which you are looking. It will be outside the Tropic as well.

I don't own a globe so I can't take a picture for you, but the following image may help. In this image, the southwestern tip of Australia is about to experience "sunset". A straight line from that location toward the sun is analagous to the direction in which a person in that location would look to see the sun. The sun would be perceived to be southwest of that location. On the north-centric flat earth model, from that location, the sun would always appear to be "north" (northwest, northeast) of that location.
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Instructing me how to create my own personal anecdote next year is not evidence.

Find a credible source that demonstrates this or discusses it.

 

[Dino246]

Instructing me how to create my own personal anecdote next year is not evidence.

Find a credible source that demonstrates this or discusses it.

If you won't believe your own eyes, why would you believe any discussion? This is a profoundly simple concept, yet you don't, won't, or can't comprehend it. I will not do your homework for you. It's a really simple experiment that you can do with a basketball and a flashlight. You can even do adequately with the diagram above. A straight line from southwestern Australia toward the sun (straight left) puts the sun, from the perspective of SW AU, more to the south. Simple geometry!

 

[pckts]

If you won't believe your own eyes, why would you believe any discussion? This is a profoundly simple concept, yet you don't, won't, or can't comprehend it. I will not do your homework for you. It's a really simple experiment that you can do with a basketball and a flashlight. You can even do adequately with the diagram above. A straight line from southwestern Australia toward the sun (straight left) puts the sun, from the perspective of SW AU, more to the south. Simple geometry!

If it's so profoundly simple and widely accepted, why can't you provide a source or evidence of it occurring with our sun?

I don't care about what happens with a basketball and a flashlight, I care about what happens with the sun and the earth.

I understand it's possible a false model or experiment with a representation of the false model with a basketball and flashlight may or may not demonstrate what you describe, but I care if the reality and real model of the world we live in demonstrates this occurring. Do you understand? If a false model demonstrates this, it is not evidence it occurs in the real world.

Keep repeating it's simple, basic, and accepted over and over, this is not evidence either, and makes it more ridiculous you can't provide a source for it. I'm not asking you to "do my homework", I want you to provide evidence that proves the basis of your argument is valid. I can't prove or disprove something there is no evidence for.

Until you provide evidence, not personal testimony or instructing me to get my own personal testimony or a false model experiment that does not accurately simulate the sun and earth, your challenge and claims have no basis.

 

[tourist]

I never tell you to take my word for it, I tell you what to investigate and would gladly show you where. Moon Landing, ISS, Mars rover, go research and stop believing in them. Look into the occultism of NASA and affiliation with freemasonry, if you want source material I'll provide the links. Asking for a photo or information of the edge of the universe that I do not have and never second guessing or considering your documentation is fake, has nothing to do with me asking you to take my word for it the earth is flat.

You think I have the means and clearance to travel to Antarctica? You think this is something easy anyone can do? Let's say it was possible for me to buy a ticket for $100, then I'm going to land with equipment to survive and traverse the cold, supplies, and I'm going to just go out there and do this?

Travel to Antarctica isn't permitted, and if I was allowed for some research purpose I couldn't just go off on my own looking for the edge, not just because of the difficulty, but also because "they" would be watching. If the climate was nice, I could afford it, and no one would know what I was doing, I would certainly go looking and get the photo for myself and you.

Is the continent of Antarctica on the edge of the earth?

 

[tourist]

1. Realize that the average person is not fit to make such a trip to the edge. Even with a specialized tour, guides and the proper equipment, the edge is not easily accessible. Even if people wold pay millions of dollars to do it, the risk is too great. It is much farther than anyone realizes.

2. You need a lot of equipment and refueling stations.

3. Dying is more probable than returning on such a trek.

The risk was great also for Columbus. There were those that said that he would sail off the edge of the earth. Why not just take a plane and fly to the edge? The edge is farther than what? How many miles from the starting point to the edge? More lame excuses.

 

[pckts]

Is the continent of Antarctica on the edge of the earth?

The "continent" of Antarctica IS the edge of the earth. Now if you mean the very very edge of the universe, I have no way of knowing how far this thing known as Antarctica goes, where it ends, if it ends, if it makes contact with the firmament, I don't know.

 

[tourist]

The "continent" of Antarctica IS the edge of the earth. Now if you mean the very very edge of the universe, I have no way of knowing how far this thing known as Antarctica goes, where it ends, if it ends, if it makes contact with the firmament, I don't know.

What proof is there that Antarctica is the edge of the earth? You know, there is more that one edge depending on the actual shape of the earth. What exactly is on all the edges? I'm not talking about the universe, I'm just trying to get the sense of the geography on all of the edges. No flat earth person seems to have any idea. Do flat earth people take it on faith that the earth is flat or do they have any actual proof. I really can't see how anyone can believe an obvious lie that the earth is flat. It absolutely makes no sense at all to me.

 

[Dino246]

If it's so profoundly simple and widely accepted, why can't you provide a source or evidence of it occurring with our sun?

I don't care about what happens with a basketball and a flashlight, I care about what happens with the sun and the earth.

I understand it's possible a false model or experiment with a representation of the false model with a basketball and flashlight may or may not demonstrate what you describe, but I care if the reality and real model of the world we live in demonstrates this occurring. Do you understand? If a false model demonstrates this, it is not evidence it occurs in the real world.

Keep repeating it's simple, basic, and accepted over and over, this is not evidence either, and makes it more ridiculous you can't provide a source for it. I'm not asking you to "do my homework", I want you to provide evidence that proves the basis of your argument is valid. I can't prove or disprove something there is no evidence for.

Until you provide evidence, not personal testimony or instructing me to get my own personal testimony or a false model experiment that does not accurately simulate the sun and earth, your challenge and claims have no basis.

Wow. I shake my head.

Anyway, here are a few links that describe the phenomenon I'm discussing. Whether you consider any of them "credible" is another issue...

Dear Tom, Why does the sun appear to set on the WNW... - tribunedigital-chicagotribune

Sunrise and Sunset

How does the location of sunrise and sunset change throughout the year? (Advanced) - Curious About Astronomy? Ask an Astronomer

Sun Setting Farther North - WAFB 9 News Baton Rouge, Louisiana News, Weather, Sports

I thought of another illustration that you may find easier... and more convincing. Find a building with flat vertical walls facing due North. Observe it in early morning or late afternoon during spring or summer... you will find that the sun hits that wall. This same thing happens to a south-facing wall in the southern hemisphere. This is exactly the same principle, caused by the tilt of the spherical earth as it rotates around its axis. The flat earth model you have used could not account for this in the southern hemisphere,at or south of the Tropic of Capricorn.

 

[joefizz]

What proof is there that Antarctica is the edge of the earth? You know, there is more that one edge depending on the actual shape of the earth. What exactly is on all the edges? I'm not talking about the universe, I'm just trying to get the sense of the geography on all of the edges. No flat earth person seems to have any idea. Do flat earth people take it on faith that the earth is flat or do they have any actual proof. I really can't see how anyone can believe an obvious lie that the earth is flat. It absolutely makes no sense at all to me.

You "don't have to make sense" to have a conspiracy,just a few "unfounded claims" a suggestion that someone do ssomething,"the person themself wouldn't do or hasn't done" and they "conveniently" are right despite "actual facts" because they have "elaborate fabrications" that are supposedly more factual,it's what happens to one's mind when one wants "answers" but notit "facts" and something to "talk about" and "seem correct" with.

 

[pckts]

What proof is there that Antarctica is the edge of the earth? You know, there is more that one edge depending on the actual shape of the earth. What exactly is on all the edges? I'm not talking about the universe, I'm just trying to get the sense of the geography on all of the edges. No flat earth person seems to have any idea. Do flat earth people take it on faith that the earth is flat or do they have any actual proof. I really can't see how anyone can believe an obvious lie that the earth is flat. It absolutely makes no sense at all to me.

When you eliminate the evidence of space travel and curvature by understanding all of it provided is false/lies, it becomes very easy to take in on faith the earth is flat. If it's flat, that there is no "south pole" and Antarctica becomes the edge.

The "explored" portion of the universe of the globe is very small, yet you take it on faith there are distant galaxies, the earth is expanding, and there was a "big bang". It's believed you live in the "milky way" galaxy and that the sun is orbiting the center of the milky way. There are many examples of unexplained, unknown, and a general lack of evidence for things you believe about the globe universe. They are making it up as they go, or filling in and changing the details as they are "discovered".

What does the edge of the expanding globe universe look like? Can you go and take a picture of it for me, or use a telescope to see it from here?

 

[tourist]

Exactly. Tourist companies would make a fortune for people who wanted to see this alleged edge of the Earth for themselves. But as you said I guess they're in on the conspiracy too

Maybe the tourist companies make enough money and are satisfied with small potatoes.

I just went to the Flat Earth Society web page again. They claim that to actually see the curvature of the earth if there was such a thing you would have to fly above 40 thousand feet and that airlines are forbidden to fly above this altitude. I have flown many times far above 40 thousand feet and have indeed seen curvature.

Hard to take a site seriously that blatantly lies. Beside this, balloon have soared well above 100,000 feet and there is indeed a curvature of the earth. Of course, satellites in space take pictures all of the time of a round earth. Astronauts on the moon have taken pictures of a round earth too. It's really no big deal.

The flat earth people can certainly get enough money together to at least send a balloon up and take a couple pictures of what the earth actually looks like from high altitude. If the balloon is shot down by a surface to air missile by the military than maybe there is something that the government is lying about.

 

[pckts]

Wow. I shake my head.

Anyway, here are a few links that describe the phenomenon I'm discussing. Whether you consider any of them "credible" is another issue...

Dear Tom, Why does the sun appear to set on the WNW... - tribunedigital-chicagotribune

Sunrise and Sunset

How does the location of sunrise and sunset change throughout the year? (Advanced) - Curious About Astronomy? Ask an Astronomer

Sun Setting Farther North - WAFB 9 News Baton Rouge, Louisiana News, Weather, Sports

I thought of another illustration that you may find easier... and more convincing. Find a building with flat vertical walls facing due North. Observe it in early morning or late afternoon during spring or summer... you will find that the sun hits that wall. This same thing happens to a south-facing wall in the southern hemisphere. This is exactly the same principle, caused by the tilt of the spherical earth as it rotates around its axis. The flat earth model you have used could not account for this in the southern hemisphere,at or south of the Tropic of Capricorn.

These articles discuss the changing of the sunrise and sunset throughout the year, not what you are claiming is occurring, that the sun is appearing past the boundaries of the tropics.

You have provided evidence that the sunrise and sunset changes throughout the year, not that there is some special phenomenon that is causing it to appear in a location outside of the boundaries of the tropics.

We are not disputing that the sunrise and sunset positions change throughout the year.