The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
I'd tick the box on that one. The Pope is usually unquestioned in his actions and what he says.
No. We regard what the Church teaches as truth. Should the pope himself preach against the teaching of the Church, he too would be wrong and would effectively excommunicate himself. However, no pope has ever declared and official teaching on faith or morals which has been found to be in conflict with historical Church teachings on faith and morals. We may very well question him when he appears to be acting against Church teaching.
Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
And boy was it punished in past centuaries.
Some today are even torture /abused because they want to leave the church. They may do it under the guise of "exorcism".
Such as? The most extreme form of punishment for dissent is excommunication from the sacraments. Doubt is a thing that can lead to greater faith or a loss of faith, and is neither discouraged or encouraged by the Church. You should not make claims of people being tortured/abused for doubting or questioning without a valid source to back them up. Then we will see if it is happening legally or illegally (my money is on illegally).
Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
Ascetism and similar is frequent in Catholicism. As is chanting etc.
Asceticism is merely a path taken by a very small group of individuals called hermits, who choose to be alone and away from the world in order to grow close to God. St. John the Baptist was an ascetic. Chanting in the Catholic tradition is simply a way of singing hymn and is in no way mind altering. It was the earliest form of music in Europe and modern music evolved out of it. Have you ever even listened to chant?
The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).
Sounds like the type of controls the R.C. exhibits over its flock. eg marriage bans for priests. Also teachings on contraceptive devices etc.
The Bible dictates in great detail how Christians should think, act, and feel. The Church uses the Bible to explains things, such as how we are not to commit Adultery also means we are not to lust, fornicate, masturbate, etc. I don’t know any church that does not do the same thing. What is wrong with our teachings on contraceptives? We’re the only ones who seem to be raising the most fuss against abortion and contraceptives because the use of these things undermines the desire God has for us to procreate within the bind of marriage without hindrance.
The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
Bingo. R.C. exalts itself above other denominations. The status given to the Pope is cult-like. Whatever the Pope says is taken as gospel, even if it is plainly wrong according to scripture.
The Church believes she teaches the fullness of the truth of the Word, yes. I am sure you believe that your way is also the best way and that other ways are somehow inferior or incomplete. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t be trying to compel others to believe that their way is wrong (as you are doing to me and other Catholics). Whatever the pope says is not taken as gospel. Only when he publicly and intentionally speaks on matters of faith and morals does he speak infallibly. Believe it or not, this has happened much less than one might think.
The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
That's true of the R.C. church.
That’s true of most churches. That’s why this thread was started: “Warning! THEY are wrong, WE are right!” The thing about Catholicism is that it is not us versus them. It is us, as Christians, against the evils of society: those things which society says is ok, like homosexual behavior, promiscuity, selfishness, improper use of our sexuality, the throw-away culture (abortion/euthanasia). We believe it is our duty as Christians to live as Christ wants and not how popular culture says we should.
‪The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).
how accountable is the Pope and Vatican? hmm.
The example here clearly says “unlike teachers, commanders, ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis or mainstream religious denominations.” The pope himself is a priest. The title of pope designates him as the bishop of the diocese of Rome, which has authority over the other bishops. A bishop is a priest. The Catholic Church is a pretty mainstream religious denomination with 1.1 billion members. That’s fairly mainstream if you ask me. He is also the head of his nation: the Vatican is a sovereign nation, with its own laws and regulations. It is a sovereign nation within another sovereign nation (Italy). It just happens to be very tiny (like Malta, Lichtenstein, etc), but it is still a country. The pope is still subject to the laws of his own nation just as the Queen of England is subject to English law and the President of America is subject to American law. Whoever said the pope was not subject to law? I bet you if the pope murdered his brother he’d be locked up. How accountable is the Queen of England and the nation of England? How accountable is the president of America and the United States? Whatever answer you have to those two questions applies to the Pope and the Vatican, as the Pope is the leader of the nation which is the Vatican City-State.
The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
Maybe this one doesn't apply to R.C church, not sure.
This does not apply to the Church. Lying and deceiving others is always a sin and we are told not to do that. To lie even for the sake of the Church is wrong. If the Church is true, or if the good I am seeking is true, there ought be no need to deceive people in order to bring them to a truth or a good thing because the truth and goodness of the thing will speak for itself.
The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
I'm pretty sure this one the R.C church does. The threat of purgatory is often a strong motive for people to do the Pope's bidding to receive indulgences.
Not done by the Church (though often done by one’s parents of any denomination it seems). Firstly, guilt is not a bad thing. Guilt is a sign that the conscience works. When one realizes that they have done something wrong, and they feel guilty for it, this is what moves them to repentance. If one feels guilty, then the case usually is that one is guilty. Guilt ought not to be confused with self-loathing. Self-loathing is bad, because if you hate yourself you hate what God has created, and humans are a good creation of God not to be hated even by one’s own self.
Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.
Maybe the R.C church doesn't exhibit this one so much.
Nope…not anymore than any other Christian group says to follow Christ and not the world.
The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
I think that's true. But also to bring in members of other churches under the umbrella of catholicism.
Well, we are called to evangelize as much as anyone else. Didn’t Jesus command his apostles to make disciples of all nations? We don’t do it actively…I mean, I have had Baptists, JWs, and Mormons come to my door and try to convince my family to leave my church for theirs. Then, this threat is trying to convince people not to be Catholic, so I guess the above rule applies to any group of Christians that evangelize in any way.
The group is preoccupied with making money.
True. In the past, indulgences were sold, bribes were accepted , they had church taxes, and persuade people to give up their money and possessions to the church. Nowadays, the Vatican has its own bank and all.
The purpose of the Church is not to make money. It does not require a membership fee, and does not force tithing (though it is recommended to give according to one’s means). In the past people abused the right use of indulgences for personal gain. This does not mean that it was right or acceptable or even approved by the teachings of the Church. Men did these things against the teachings of their own Church. Men in all churches do these things. It is called sin. The Vatican is a nation. Why would it operate with a foreign bank? Would you expect the United States to put all of its money in the National Band of Uganda? Nope.
Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
Not sure about that one.
I guess you could say we are expected to devote at least one hour to Church on Sundays, but really, that is the only expectation. We are encouraged to do more: like read the Bible on our free time, pray regularly, etc. Just like any other Christian Church.
Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
I do know the catholics tend to stick to themselves.
Boy, with the aggressive, malicious, and relentless attacks in this thread alone, would you blame us? I am a native of South Carolina. Once I began public school, I had many many friends…until they found out I was Catholic. Then they spent their free time saying “YOUR GOING TO HELL!” So, yeah, after that, I pretty much only hung out with my Catholic friends…all 2 of them. We are certainly not encouraged to keep to our own. It simply is the case that others usually seem to not want us around or are otherwise hostile to us.
‪The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.
I am sure this type of feeling exists in the R. C church. A number of catholics I have spoken with have this sort of fear or dread of what might happen if they leave the church.
Christians ought to fear becoming non Christian because to believe in anything but Christianity is to die. Makes sense to me.
Tony, the example I gave of how Christ said how to do communion at the Last Supper applies to his body and his blood equally. That is the most sufficient answer I can sufficiently give regarding that statement: because Christ told the apostles to do it one way, and to do it another way would have been to go against his wishes.
