GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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The will of God for us is revealed in the New Covenant.
You are still trying to live under the Jewish covenant.
The bible says all the covents belong to Israel.

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel
which spake to him in [the mount Sina], and with our fathers:
who received the lively oracles [ to give unto us ] Acts 7:38

A new testement warning-about entering into His rest.

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering
into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

-how did they came short?

Heb 4:2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us,
even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them,
because it was not united by (faith) with them that heard.

-they did not have faith.

Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest;even as
he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest:
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise,
And God rested on the seventh day from all his works;

-notice entering into that rest is connected with the seventh day.

Heb 4:5 and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto,
and they to whom the good tidings were before preached

failed to enter in because of disobedience,
entered not in because of unbelief:
-God said they will not enter His rest, but they failed because of [disobedience].
about the 7th day Sabbath command.

Heb 4:7 he again defineth a certain day, To-day, saying in David
so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before),
To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts.

Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken
afterward of another day.

-David said "today" long after Joshua took them into the promised land
so thus proving that there is a rest still to be entered.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works,
as God did from his. Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest,

that no man fall after the same example of [disobedience].
lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
-A rest remains, but notice the issue is do not disobey.

Heb 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holy of holies;
Heb 9:4 having a golden altar of incense, and the ark of the covenant overlaid
round about with gold, wherein was a golden pot holding the manna,
and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

-the pot of manna was put in the most Holy

Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which Jehovah thy God hath led thee
these forty years in the wilderness, that he might humble thee, to prove thee, to know
what was in thy heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or not.
Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna,
which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know

that man doth not live by bread only, but by everything that proceedeth
out of the mouth of Jehovah doth man live.

-God tested them for 40 years to humble them to see what was in their hearts.
that they should live by every word (10 commandments spoken by Gods own mouth)
not by bread alone.

-what did the bread teach?

Exo 16:4 Then said Jehovah unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you;
and the people shall go out and gather a day's portion every day, that I may prove them,
whether they will walk in my law, or not.

Exo 16:5 And it shall come to pass on the sixth day, that they shall prepare that which
they bring in, and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

-and how long did God prove them with the manna?

Exo 16:32 And Moses said, This is the thing which Jehovah hath commanded, Let
an omerful of it be kept throughout your generations, that they may see the bread
wherewith I fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt.

Exo 16:33 And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a pot, and put an omerful of manna therein,
and lay it up before Jehovah, to be kept throughout your generations.

As Jehovah commanded Moses, so Aaron laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept.
And the children of Israel did eat the manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited;
they did eat the manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan.

-40 years. this is the issue being spoken of in Hebrews:

Heb 3:16 For who, when they heard, did provoke? nay, did not all they
that came out of Egypt by Moses?

Heb 3:17 And with whom was he displeased forty years?
was it not with them that sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest,
but to them that were disobedient?
Heb 3:19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:4-10 "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise,
And God did rest the seventh day from all his works [Gen. 2:2-3].

And in [this place again],

If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth
that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in
because of unbelief [sound familiar?]: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David,
To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest [see below] to the people of God. For he that is entered
into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."

rest (G4520) sabbatismos
1. a keeping sabbath
2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by
the true worshippers of God and true Christians. from a derivative of G4521

(G4521) sabbaton
1. the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites
were required to abstain from all work
1a. the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
1b. a single sabbath, sabbath day
2. seven days, a week of Hebrew origin H7676

(H7676) shabba^th
1. Sabbath
1a. sabbath
1b. day of atonement
1c. sabbath year
1d. week
1e. produce (in sabbath year)
intensive from H7673

(7673) sha^bath
1. to cease, desist, rest
1a. (Qal)
1a-1. to cease
1a-2. to rest, desist (from labour)
1b. (Niphal) to cease
1c. (Hiphil)
1c-1. to cause to cease, put an end to
1c-2. to exterminate, destroy
1c-3. to cause to desist from
1c-4. to remove
1c-5. to cause to fail
2. (Qal) to keep or observe the sabbath
a primitive root


Genesis 2:2-3 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made;
and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God
blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from
all his work which God created and made."

The LORD created the seventh day (Sabbath), blessed and sanctified it
"because that in it he had rested from all his work".

-once God has blessed something, can it be undone?

Numbers 23:19-20 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man,
that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall
he not make it good? Behold, I have received commandment to bless:

and he hath blessed; and [I cannot reverse it]."

-Here Balaam tells Balak that the LORD gave him a commandment to bless Israel.
He told Balak that what the LORD has blessed, he cannot reverse it.
Do we think we can reverse the blessing the LORD has placed on something?

1 Chronicles 17:26-27 "And now, LORD, thou art God, and hast promised this goodness
unto thy servant: Now therefore let it please thee to bless the house of thy servant, that it may
be before thee for ever: for thou blessest, O LORD, and it shall be blessed for ever."
 
Last edited:

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
The bible says all the covents belong to Israel.

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel
which spake to him in [the mount Sina], and with our fathers:
who received the lively oracles [ to give unto us ] Acts 7:38

A new testement warning-about entering into His rest.

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering
into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

-how did they came short?

Heb 4:2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us,
even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them,
because it was not united by (faith) with them that heard.

-they did not have faith.

Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest;even as
he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest:
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise,
And God rested on the seventh day from all his works;

-notice entering into that rest is connected with the seventh day.

Heb 4:5 and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto,
and they to whom the good tidings were before preached

failed to enter in because of disobedience,
entered not in because of unbelief:
-God said they will not enter His rest, but they failed because of [disobedience].
about the 7th day Sabbath command.

Heb 4:7 he again defineth a certain day, To-day, saying in David
so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before),
To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts.

Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken
afterward of another day.

-David said "today" long after Joshua took them into the promised land
so thus proving that there is a rest still to be entered.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works,
as God did from his. Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest,

that no man fall after the same example of [disobedience].
lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
-A rest remains, but notice the issue is do not disobey.

Heb 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holy of holies;
Heb 9:4 having a golden altar of incense, and the ark of the covenant overlaid
round about with gold, wherein was a golden pot holding the manna,
and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

-the pot of manna was put in the most Holy

Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which Jehovah thy God hath led thee
these forty years in the wilderness, that he might humble thee, to prove thee, to know
what was in thy heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or not.
Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna,
which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know

that man doth not live by bread only, but by everything that proceedeth
out of the mouth of Jehovah doth man live.

-God tested them for 40 years to humble them to see what was in their hearts.
that they should live by every word (10 commandments spoken by Gods own mouth)
not by bread alone.

-what did the bread teach?

Exo 16:4 Then said Jehovah unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you;
and the people shall go out and gather a day's portion every day, that I may prove them,
whether they will walk in my law, or not.

Exo 16:5 And it shall come to pass on the sixth day, that they shall prepare that which
they bring in, and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

-and how long did God prove them with the manna?

Exo 16:32 And Moses said, This is the thing which Jehovah hath commanded, Let
an omerful of it be kept throughout your generations, that they may see the bread
wherewith I fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt.

Exo 16:33 And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a pot, and put an omerful of manna therein,
and lay it up before Jehovah, to be kept throughout your generations.

As Jehovah commanded Moses, so Aaron laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept.
And the children of Israel did eat the manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited;
they did eat the manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan.

-40 years. this is the issue being spoken of in Hebrews:

Heb 3:16 For who, when they heard, did provoke? nay, did not all they
that came out of Egypt by Moses?

Heb 3:17 And with whom was he displeased forty years?
was it not with them that sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest,
but to them that were disobedient?
Heb 3:19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:4-10 "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise,
And God did rest the seventh day from all his works [Gen. 2:2-3].

And in [this place again],

If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth
that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in
because of unbelief [sound familiar?]: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David,
To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest [see below] to the people of God. For he that is entered
into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."

rest (G4520) sabbatismos
1. a keeping sabbath
2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by
the true worshippers of God and true Christians. from a derivative of G4521

(G4521) sabbaton
1. the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites
were required to abstain from all work
1a. the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
1b. a single sabbath, sabbath day
2. seven days, a week of Hebrew origin H7676

(H7676) shabba^th
1. Sabbath
1a. sabbath
1b. day of atonement
1c. sabbath year
1d. week
1e. produce (in sabbath year)
intensive from H7673

(7673) sha^bath
1. to cease, desist, rest
1a. (Qal)
1a-1. to cease
1a-2. to rest, desist (from labour)
1b. (Niphal) to cease
1c. (Hiphil)
1c-1. to cause to cease, put an end to
1c-2. to exterminate, destroy
1c-3. to cause to desist from
1c-4. to remove
1c-5. to cause to fail
2. (Qal) to keep or observe the sabbath
a primitive root


Genesis 2:2-3 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made;
and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God
blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from
all his work which God created and made."

The LORD created the seventh day (Sabbath), blessed and sanctified it
"because that in it he had rested from all his work".

-once God has blessed something, can it be undone?

Numbers 23:19-20 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man,
that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall
he not make it good? Behold, I have received commandment to bless:

and he hath blessed; and [I cannot reverse it]."

-Here Balaam tells Balak that the LORD gave him a commandment to bless Israel.
He told Balak that what the LORD has blessed, he cannot reverse it.
Do we think we can reverse the blessing the LORD has placed on something?

1 Chronicles 17:26-27 "And now, LORD, thou art God, and hast promised this goodness
unto thy servant: Now therefore let it please thee to bless the house of thy servant, that it may
be before thee for ever: for thou blessest, O LORD, and it shall be blessed for ever."
The Old Covenant belonged to the physical Israel.

The new one to the real, spiritual Israel, composed of Jews and Gentiles by their origin.

There is no sabbath commandment in the New Covenant. If there was, you would post it immediately, but there is none and therefore you must create such absurdly long posts to justify your position.
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ex20:4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…" [/FONT]
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
The Old Covenant belonged to the physical Israel.

The new one to the real, spiritual Israel, composed of Jews and Gentiles by their origin.

There is no sabbath commandment in the New Covenant.

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

only commandment that said to remember, but people forget.
also the Sabbath Passover is in the new testement.

though you claim the Lords day is sunday,
and easter replaced the passover- this is not in the bible



The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let [my name]
be named on them, [and the name] of my fathers Abraham and Isaac;
and let them grow into a multitude in [the midst of the earth].

-and to Israel for an everlasting covenant

1 Chronicles 16:17 (KJV)
And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law,
and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,


Psalms 105:10 (KJV)
And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law,
and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:


Psalms 78:5 (KJV)
For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel,
which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known
to their children:


Isaiah 42:24 (KJV)
Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the Lord,
he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways,
neither were they obedient unto his law.


Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments,
and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great
in the kingdom of heaven.




And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one
sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
 
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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

only commandment that said to remember, but people forget.
also the Sabbath Passover is in the new testement.

though you claim the Lords day is sunday,
and easter replaced the passover- this is not in the bible



The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let [my name]
be named on them, [and the name] of my fathers Abraham and Isaac;
and let them grow into a multitude in [the midst of the earth].

-and to Israel for an everlasting covenant

1 Chronicles 16:17 (KJV)
And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law,
and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,


Psalms 105:10 (KJV)
And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law,
and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:


Psalms 78:5 (KJV)
For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel,
which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known
to their children:


Isaiah 42:24 (KJV)
Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the Lord,
he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways,
neither were they obedient unto his law.


Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments,
and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great
in the kingdom of heaven.

No such commadment in the New Covenant. You are still playing with the old one.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
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No such commadment in the New Covenant. You are still playing with the old one.

here is a future event you must have forgot


And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another,
and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
here is a future event you must have forgot


And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another,
and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
Well, if you are trying to say that this prophecy is about our age and sabbaths means one day in a week, the prophecy failed.

Because the vast majority ignores it.

So, either the prophecy failed or you understand it wrong.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
Well, if you are trying to say that this prophecy is about our age and sabbaths means one day in a week, the prophecy failed.

Because the vast majority ignores it.

So, either the prophecy failed or you understand it wrong.
like I said this verse is for the future time, when Christ will demand all flesh
to observe his Oracles.
 
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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
like I said this verse is for the future time, when Christ will demand all flesh
to observe his Oracles
Or it is not. Depends on our opinion.

What was a future in the time of Isaiah, can be a past or a present for us.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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121
0
realllly great post i love the thoroughness thanks a bunch for sharing this, Love all the scripture and appreciate the time you took to share.

if people would distinguish between the book of the Law, and the covenant Law it would make all the difference, I hope some will consider your post, God bless
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
Or it is not. Depends on our opinion.

What was a future in the time of Isaiah, can be a past or a present for us.
so all flesh came to Jersalem to worship Christ in the past, that's funny.


Zechariah 14:17 (KJV)
And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem
to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.


not sure when this verse happened yet
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
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the book of Zechariah


14th chapter. The time is the Millennium. “And the [Eternal] shall be king over all
the earth: in that day shall there be one [Eternal], and his name one. … There shall
be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited” .
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
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The Old Covenant belonged to the physical Israel.

The new one to the real, spiritual Israel, composed of Jews and Gentiles by their origin.

There is no sabbath commandment in the New Covenant. If there was, you would post it immediately, but there is none and therefore you must create such absurdly long posts to justify your position.
Hi trofimus,

You should believe Proveall, he is correct about Hebrews 4 and that the covenant's belong to Israel.

We are indeed under the New Covenant but you still have not answered my question to you earlier; what is the New Covenant mean to you?

If you are not a part of God's Israel as defined in His Word, then the New Covenant is not for you because it was written for God's Israel.

Who are God's Israel according to God's Word..............................................

Who are Israel?

"Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel.

Israel is only a name given by God that represents God's people and today anyone who is following Jesus is part of God's Israel according to God's Word.

What does God's Word say.................................

Let God be true and every man a liar that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, AND TO YOUR SEED, WHICH IS CHRIST (Galatians 3:16)

Abraham’s seed is Israel................................................

THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE (Galatians 3:28).

No explanation needed, believe God's Word, and again..........................

FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH A RE OF ISRAEL,: NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN : but in Isaac shall thy seed be cal led <Christ> That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF G OD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED (Romans 9:6).

FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:28-29)

Believe the scriptures..................................

Galatians 3:28-29
,
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Colossians 3:11,
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Romans 10:11-13,
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 2:28-29,
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel..........................

Jeremiah 31:33-4,
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:10-12,
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:14-17,
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Galatians 3:29,

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise

The New Covenant is for God's Israel which represent God’s followers the believers. If you are not part of God's Israel you are not part of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:10-12).

God's Israel are those that believe the Word of God and follow it and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15)

This includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11). If we break one of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking them all (James 2:8-12)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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Hi trofimus,

You should believe Proveall, he is correct about Hebrews 4 and that the covenant's belong to Israel.

We are indeed under the New Covenant but you still have not answered my question to you earlier; what is the New Covenant mean to you?

If you are not a part of God's Israel as defined in His Word, then the New Covenant is not for you because it was written for God's Israel.

Who are God's Israel according to God's Word..............................................

Who are Israel?

"Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel.

Israel is only a name given by God that represents God's people and today anyone who is following Jesus is part of God's Israel according to God's Word.

What does God's Word say.................................

Let God be true and every man a liar that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, AND TO YOUR SEED, WHICH IS CHRIST (Galatians 3:16)

Abraham’s seed is Israel................................................

THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE (Galatians 3:28).

No explanation needed, believe God's Word, and again..........................

FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH A RE OF ISRAEL,: NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN : but in Isaac shall thy seed be cal led <Christ> That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF G OD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED (Romans 9:6).

FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:28-29)

Believe the scriptures..................................

Galatians 3:28-29
,
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Colossians 3:11,
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Romans 10:11-13,
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 2:28-29,
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel..........................

Jeremiah 31:33-4,
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:10-12,
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:14-17,
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Galatians 3:29,

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise

The New Covenant is for God's Israel which represent God’s followers the believers. If you are not part of God's Israel you are not part of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:10-12).

God's Israel are those that believe the Word of God and follow it and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15)

This includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11). If we break one of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking them all (James 2:8-12)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
You should believe Proveall, he is correct about Hebrews 4 and that the covenant's belong to Israel. "

galatians 3 :That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15
Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it beconfirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

vFor ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Israel had the covenant, because it was made to abraham. the covenant between God and man was given to abraham and his seed, Christ His descendant, because we believe in Christ, we then become abrahams seed having become one with Jesus. making us children of God and hiers of the covenant promises. believers are "Israel" whether jew, or gentile male of female. the covenants belong to abrahams seed.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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Have you ever thought that the OP can be wrong?
New Covenant was prophecised in the OT, established by Christ, fulfilled by His death and resurrection and explained/brought to light by His apostles, mainly by Paul.
How would you know if the OP is wrong or not if you have not read it? I still have not seen anything from anyone including yourself to say otherwise and all the scripture agree together as one. The two great witnesses of the Old and New Testaments both agree and are in harmony together with each other.

Yes the laws of Moses in the OC all point to Jesus. God's Law however is forever and has the same role they have always had. They are the standard of sin, righteousness and the Judgement to come..

Have you ever thought you could be wrong?

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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How would you know if the OP is wrong or not if you have not read it? I still have not seen anything from anyone including yourself to say otherwise and all the scripture agree together as one. The two great witnesses of the Old and New Testaments both agree and are in harmony together with each other.
No, for example this is not in harmony with your view:

​"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything [from the Jewish Law] beyond the following requirements:
You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell."

(Acts 15:28-29)

No sabbath.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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No, for example this is not in harmony with your view:

​"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything [from the Jewish Law] beyond the following requirements:
You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell."

(Acts 15:28-29)

No sabbath.
You need to read the chapter of Acts 15; it is talking about circumcision from the laws of Moses not God's Law (10 commandments).

So in your view and according to your argument you can lie, steal, murder, not honor your parents, covet, use God's name in vain because none of those laws are written in Acts 15 along with God's Sabbath?

While it says in Hebrews 10:26-27 that those who are in known unrepentant sin will be lost?

This does not concern you?
 
Jun 5, 2017
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Its a ceremonial law to be used in ceremonies that speak of the suffering of Christ beforehand. Not a moral law that governs the world.

1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Signified, denotes using the things seen to represent the things not seen (the faith principle) used in all parable .Hiding the spiritul meaning from natural man called an evil generation . They seek to believe after a sign and not what it represents.

Offering shadows of the gospel is what they did we can see that I believe in the parable below. .

The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure (parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.Heb 9:8

The reformation came the shadows disappeared..
God's 4th commandment is not a ceremonial law it is a Moral Law like all the other 10 and part of our duty of Love to God. It is a memorial of creation and is a commandment of God to his people today;

Let's have a look at what God's Word says...........

Genesis 2:1-3

1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it <set apart and made Holy>: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Key points......................

v3 God blessed the 7th day of the creation week and made it a holy day
v1-2 The 7th day of the creation week was part of the FINISHED work of creation
All of the above was FINISHED before sin entered into the world so the 7th day of the creation week cannot be a shadow of anything because it is part of a FINISHED work before SIN so cannot be a shadow of something to come.

God commands His people rest from their work as he did from His on the 7th Day............

Exodus 20:8-11

8, Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy. 9, Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:11, <why?> For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it <made Holy and set it apart from the other days of the week>

Is the 7th day Sabbath and the 7th day of creation the same........................................

The 7th Day of the creation week is the 7th day of the week as we know it. The 7th day Sabbath commandment is given by God to mankind because in the 7th Day of the creation week God set the 7th day apart from all the other days in the week and made it a Holy day. God's 4th commandment from the ten commandments is a memorial of the 7th day of the week of creation which we are to keep as a holy day on every 7th day of the week as a memorial of creation. We are commanded to do no work and to rest as God rested from the Week of creation. Exodus 20 make it plain indeed that the 7th Day Sabbath commandment is a memorial of creation and that God's people worship the only true God of creation.

Let's have a look at what God's says...........

Exodus 20:10

But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God

Also, as a side note out of interest......

Genesis 2:1-3

1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it <set apart and made Holy>: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The Hebrew Word base root word for rest used in Genesis 2:1-3 and Sabbath used in Exodus 20:8-11 is the same Hebrew word although the word Sabbath carries the extra meaning of one 7 day interval to another (ongoing rest every 7th day)

Strongs

rested H7673
שׁבת; shâbath; shaw-bath'
A primitive root; to repose, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): - (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

and.......

Strongs

Sabbath H7676
שׁבּת; shabbâth; shab-bawth'
Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: every sabbath.

So in summary.............

God blessed the 7th day Sabbath in Genesis 2. Not only did he bless this day in Genesis 2 this is also where God set the 7th day apart from all the other days in the week and made it a Holy day for all mankind ( Mark 2:27 ). Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath and commands us to keep it as a Holy day ( Mark 2:28; Exodus 20:8-11 ) and says if you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15). Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who through faith walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. God's 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) is a memorial of th e 7th day of the creation week that God made as a holy day (Exodus 20:10) as part of a FINISHED work of creation before SIN entered the world. Because the 4th commandment is part of a FINISHED work it cannot be a shadow of anything because it is FINISHED (Genesis 2:1-3)

Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of man breaking God's commandments. If we are knowingly following the traditions of man over the Word of God the scriptures tell us we are not following God. (see Matthew 15:3-9)

We should always believe God's Word...
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
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1 Timothy 1:5-7
[FONT=&quot]5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Galatians 3:2-3
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 3:10-12
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Hebrews 7:18-19
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Matthew 11:28-30
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Galatians 3:23-25
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Romans 9:30-32
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


How do legalists and judaizers ignore the whole NT and instead work at their own understanding of the OT??

The bible tells us exactly how it is done.

2 Corinthians 3:13-16
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.[/FONT]
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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You falsely compare obedience to righteous Copmmands to trying to be justified by ones own works. THey are not the same thing. The guy who wrote everything you posted, as you only quote Paul, because his writing s are the only ones that can be twisted into lawlessness;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.”

Yet he him self kept and taught the Law of Yah:

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."

[/FONT]

and how do we love Yah's Law and seek to keep it?


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”[/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”[/FONT]



while we that you accuse may not be perfect we can testify of a heart change, where before we were in oppisition to His Laws/ways, now we enjoy them. praiseYah! He is mighty to change ones heart if they wont fight against it.