Not By Works

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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
Yep.
He did it before receiving the Holy Ghost, which is only given after repentance.
Heresy?
Loving God above all else and your neighbor as your self is heresy?
Wouldn't Jesus be surprised.

Luke 22


31And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. 33And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death. 34And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.



True.. the Lord states when you are converted...
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
6
0
PJW

Look back over those scriptures of enduring to the end, carefully, maybe slowly...and then tell me what they really are saying. Endure to salvation? Or will we continue our first love during trials?
Endure till the return of Jesus with His angels.
Endure till the final judgement.
Endure till your death.
Don't ever commit another sin.
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
6
0
Hi all...Before I rest for the night, how wonderful to remember that we have an Advocate before our heavenly Father Almighty God :)...How wonderful that Jesus reminded us all for those who are in Him that we are not left abandoned in this world to fend for ourselves, how wonderful it is that Jesus Christ stands on our behalf pleading for us to our Father God who we cry ABBA, Oh how wonderful...xox...
AMEN!
His advocacy is the only thing keeping me free from sin.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
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And we all hope and pray you abandon the False Prophet that has been deceiving you, then, you can take your own advise.

Just so you can finally understand the TERM, GRACE is receiving a free giftfrom GOD, that YOU CANNOT EARN OR EVEN KEEP, out of your own efforts. From you false teaching, you obviously did not know the meaning of the word GRACE.

I am now in favor of ignoring your posts, but lay off trying to LURE IN the lambs, that is what a WOLF PRETENDING TO BE A SHEEP DOES. I and several others here will protect the Lambs from your deceiving false doctrines.
Hi VCO, I posted this comment earlier after having a conversation with PennEd. PJW claims the name of his church is "The Church by Jesus Christ." There is no such church by this name. You would think there would be some information about this fake church but there is nothin to be found on the internet at all about his fake church, nothing, he made it up in his mind.

PennEd and most of the folks here agree to disfellowship with this heretic because of the "damage he will do to the Lambs." He claims to be "sinless" but has not the truth; and only tells lies over and over, his church is the "Church by Jesus Christ", no such church on planet earth, it is a complete deception a lie.

Repost:
"If we knew where he attended church we could easily find their "Doctrinal Statement" and tell me this, what church does not have a website for goodness sake, some churches at least will post a "Facebook page." There is not one mention of, "The church by Christ Jesus", not one mention of this so call church on the entire internet, not one, and personally I have never heard of, nor has anyone I know heard of, a church affiliated with a church by this name, such a mystery.

"Sinless Perfection"
is a heretical doctrine and should be opposed by the Church; I agree with you PennEd, time to end the "Drama"

Quote: "The church I belong to is called "The Church by Christ Jesus (Eph3:21)" We don't have a web site though.

 
Last edited:

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,815
29,194
113
AMEN!
His advocacy is the only thing keeping me free from sin.
Then why boast of your sinlessness? Why not boast of His instead? And, why would you need an advocate if you do not sin? One of the true marks of ongoing sanctification is the growing awareness of how far short we fall of reaching the ideal perfection seen in Christ. This is humbling to be sure, but God gives grace to the humble, and resists the proud. Pride was the root cause of the fall of all creation.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
I did humble myself, but to God: not a false sin laden doctrine.
AMEN!
His advocacy is the only thing keeping me free from sin.
Hi VCO, I posted this comment earlier after having a conversation PennEd, PJW claims the name of his church is "The Church by Jesus Christ." There is no such church by this name. You would think there would be some information about this fake church but there is nothing on the to be found on the internet at all about his fake church, nothing.

PennEd and most of the folks here agree to disfellowship with this heretic because of the "damage he will do to the Lambs." He claims to be "sinless" but has not the truth; and only tells lies over and over, his church is the "Church by Jesus Christ", no such church on planet earth, it is a complete deception a lie.

Repost:
"If we knew where he attended church we could easily find their "Doctrinal Statement" and tell me this, what church does not have a website for goodness sake, some churches at least will post a "Facebook page." There is not one mention of, "The church by Christ Jesus", not one mention of this so call church on the entire internet, not one, and personally I have never heard of, nor has anyone I know heard of, a church affiliated with a church by this name, such a mystery.

"Sinless Perfection"
is a heretical doctrine and should be opposed by the Church; I agree with you PennEd, time to end the "Drama"

Quote: "The church I belong to is called "The Church by Christ Jesus (Eph3:21)" We don't have a web site though.


They may be a group of Believers with no need for a website.. I don’t like the way PJW is being called a liar.. he is witnessing of his sin free life and giving all Glory to GOD through His Faith... unless one can flat out prove he is lying then let us hold our peace and not become his accuser.

Each day we all are to strive and not sin wilfully.. GOD is able to lead and strengthen us through our Faith in the Messiah.

PJW is not stating he is keeping himself but that his Faith in Christ means he is kept from sinning..

Sinless perfection is what the Messiah wants from His flock.. He does not want us to sin.. He wants us to be perfect like our Father in Heaven.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
They may be a group of Believers with no need for a website.. I don’t like the way PJW is being called a liar.. he is witnessing of his sin free life and giving all Glory to GOD through His Faith... unless one can flat out prove he is lying then let us hold our peace and not become his accuser.

Each day we all are to strive and not sin wilfully.. GOD is able to lead and strengthen us through our Faith in the Messiah.

PJW is not stating he is keeping himself but that his Faith in Christ means he is kept from sinning..

Sinless perfection is what the Messiah wants from His flock.. He does not want us to sin.. He wants us to be perfect like our Father in Heaven.
News flash, "Sinless Perfection" is a heresy.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,815
29,194
113
Repost:
"If we knew where he attended church we could easily find their "Doctrinal Statement" and tell me this, what church does not have a website for goodness sake, some churches at least will post a "Facebook page." There is not one mention of, "The church by Christ Jesus", not one mention of this so call church on the entire internet, not one, and personally I have never heard of, nor has anyone I know heard of, a church affiliated with a church by this name, such a mystery.
Perhaps he means the ecclesia? But how could one attend that, when we are that? There is a church of that name in Houston, Texas, though :eek:
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Perhaps he means the ecclesia? But how could one attend that, when we are that? There is a church of that name in Houston, Texas, though :eek:
Okay, but website or not, teaching sinless perfection doctrine is wrong with or without a website...:rolleyes:
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,815
29,194
113
I don’t like the way PJW is being called a liar.. he is witnessing of his sin free life and giving all Glory to GOD through His Faith... unless one can flat out prove he is lying then let us hold our peace and not become his accuser.
Scripture accuses him: If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8 Why else would we be told to confess our sins to each other? Believers, brothers and sisters in Christ, were being addressed.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
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Perhaps he means the ecclesia? But how could one attend that, when we are that? There is a church of that name in Houston, Texas, though :eek:
Hi Magenta, I just did a search of churches in Houston, Texas and came up with nothing under that name, "The Church by Jesus Christ" ​but thanks for your info.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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Repost: some may be interested in this article some may not.

Question: "What is the Holiness movement / church?"

Answer: The Holiness movement/church is an influence within Christianity that teaches that a person can achieve perfect holiness, or sinless perfection, while on earth. This doctrine teaches “entire sanctification,” which usually comes via a spiritual experience that those in the Holiness movement refer to as the “second work of grace” or the “second blessing.” The Holiness movement is opposed by Reformed thinkers, who assert that original sin still exists in even the most faithful person.

The Holiness movement began in 1840 when a Methodist leader named Phoebe Palmer began to hold revivals and teach the necessity of holiness—and how to attain it. Groups and denominations historically associated with the Holiness movement include Wesleyans, Methodists, Nazarenes, and the Salvation Army. However, it should be noted that churches differ widely on doctrine, even within denominations.

The Holiness movement did have a profound effect on the history of the church, particularly in North America during the Third Great Awakening. Holiness adherents are typically interested in obedience to the Law and see their obedience as a way to gain closeness to God and greater spirituality.

While holiness is a biblical mandate and something every believer should strive for (Hebrews 12:14), those in the Holiness movement typically leave out an important detail: the fact that absolute holiness is impossible to attain. Perfection, sinlessness, and a holy life are not within man’s power to achieve.

This idea is backed up by the Bible in numerous passages, most notably in the book of Romans. Paul’s argument in the first part of Romans is that man is fallen and unable to make himself follow the Law. In addition, it could be said that the whole history of Israel, with its repeated failures, is an object lesson about man’s inability to achieve holiness through the Law.

The Holiness movement is related to Pentecostalism in that it says that God helps the believer by giving him the “second blessing” of His Spirit. The “second blessing,” according to Holiness teaching, seals the believer in a sinless state. Unfortunately, a “sinless state” is not supported by either the Bible or human experience. While an emotional experience can make one feel that holiness is possible and that we never want to sin again, we still live in the flesh, and the flesh is still beset with weakness (Romans 7:14–19). Even the apostle Paul was unable to be completely sinless, and he admitted as much, saying that the old law of sin was still alive in his body, even though he served God in his mind and spirit (Romans 7:21–23).

Elsewhere, Paul mentions a “thorn” in his flesh, making him rely on God’s strength instead of his own weakness (2 Corinthians 12:7). Near the end of his life, when by all accounts he should have been the most holy, Paul called himself the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). Had Paul not received the second blessing? Or perhaps there is no second blessing resulting in sinlessness. The fact is that none of the apostles ever hinted at the possibility that man can achieve “entire sanctification,” and there is no mention in the Bible of a “second blessing” of the Spirit.

Christians do sin (1 John 1:5–10), but, hopefully, less and less as we mature in Christ (Philippians 3:12). The Holiness movement is wrong in its assumption that a believer can keep enough rules to attain sinless perfection in this world.[/QUOTE]
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,815
29,194
113
Hi Magenta, I just did a search of churches in Houston, Texas and came up with nothing under that name, "The Church by Jesus Christ" ​but thanks for your info.
Hello TruthTalk :) I meant there was a church called Ecclesia there :D http://ecclesiahouston.org/

Sorry for the confusion! :eek:
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
Scripture accuses him: If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8 Why else would we be told to confess our sins to each other? Believers, brothers and sisters in Christ, were being addressed.
1 John 1



[FONT=&quot]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.[/FONT]


[/FONT]

It reads if we say we have not sinned.. PJW is saying He sinned and has been cleansed from all sin by the Blood of Jesus Christ..

PJW is walking in the light... that is what He is trying to relay.. and if without assumptions you can prove him otherwise stop accusing him..


To be worthy to walk in white with the Lord we are to do what He instructs.. If a man believes and is growing in Grace and knowledge of Christ he is not going to be the same man he was when he Repented and Believed.. Faith that worketh by Love... we are to be saints through our Faith.

GOD does not need to hide us.. He can make us a new.. and lead us through our Faith..

PJW May not articulate with the most humble tone.. but all credit is to GOD through His Faith in Christ and the Lord judges His people at the set time..
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
News flash, "Sinless Perfection" is a heresy.
I don’t believe you.. if the Lord states we are not to sin.. and are to be perfect like our Father in Heaven then I believe Him.

GOD is able to forgive and reconcile the chief sinner to Himself when the person Repents and Believes.. nothing impossible if we believe.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,815
29,194
113
Repost: some may be interested in this article some may not.

Question: "What is the Holiness movement / church?"

Answer: The Holiness movement/church is an influence within Christianity that teaches that a person can achieve perfect holiness, or sinless perfection, while on earth. This doctrine teaches “entire sanctification,” which usually comes via a spiritual experience that those in the Holiness movement refer to as the “second work of grace” or the “second blessing.” The Holiness movement is opposed by Reformed thinkers, who assert that original sin still exists in even the most faithful person.

The Holiness movement began in 1840 when a Methodist leader named Phoebe Palmer began to hold revivals and teach the necessity of holiness—and how to attain it. Groups and denominations historically associated with the Holiness movement include Wesleyans, Methodists, Nazarenes, and the Salvation Army. However, it should be noted that churches differ widely on doctrine, even within denominations.

The Holiness movement did have a profound effect on the history of the church, particularly in North America during the Third Great Awakening. Holiness adherents are typically interested in obedience to the Law and see their obedience as a way to gain closeness to God and greater spirituality.

While holiness is a biblical mandate and something every believer should strive for (Hebrews 12:14), those in the Holiness movement typically leave out an important detail: the fact that absolute holiness is impossible to attain. Perfection, sinlessness, and a holy life are not within man’s power to achieve.

This idea is backed up by the Bible in numerous passages, most notably in the book of Romans. Paul’s argument in the first part of Romans is that man is fallen and unable to make himself follow the Law. In addition, it could be said that the whole history of Israel, with its repeated failures, is an object lesson about man’s inability to achieve holiness through the Law.

The Holiness movement is related to Pentecostalism in that it says that God helps the believer by giving him the “second blessing” of His Spirit. The “second blessing,” according to Holiness teaching, seals the believer in a sinless state. Unfortunately, a “sinless state” is not supported by either the Bible or human experience. While an emotional experience can make one feel that holiness is possible and that we never want to sin again, we still live in the flesh, and the flesh is still beset with weakness (Romans 7:14–19). Even the apostle Paul was unable to be completely sinless, and he admitted as much, saying that the old law of sin was still alive in his body, even though he served God in his mind and spirit (Romans 7:21–23).

Elsewhere, Paul mentions a “thorn” in his flesh, making him rely on God’s strength instead of his own weakness (2 Corinthians 12:7). Near the end of his life, when by all accounts he should have been the most holy, Paul called himself the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). Had Paul not received the second blessing? Or perhaps there is no second blessing resulting in sinlessness. The fact is that none of the apostles ever hinted at the possibility that man can achieve “entire sanctification,” and there is no mention in the Bible of a “second blessing” of the Spirit.

Christians do sin (1 John 1:5–10), but, hopefully, less and less as we mature in Christ (Philippians 3:12). The Holiness movement is wrong in its assumption that a believer can keep enough rules to attain sinless perfection in this world.
Thank you, TruthTalk , that is an interesting read :)

I found this earlier on sinless perfectionism:
The Heresy of Perfectionism
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
Why don’t you all put more effort in to your walk with the Lord than investigating a man for his witness and beliefs.. if the cup is dirty on the inside having not Repented and Believed being cleansed by the Lord’s Blood then the cup will come under fire...
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
I don’t believe you.. if the Lord states we are not to sin.. and are to be perfect like our Father in Heaven then I believe Him.

GOD is able to forgive and reconcile the chief sinner to Himself when the person Repents and Believes.. nothing impossible if we believe.
Okay have it your way, but it is still considered a heresy to teach "sinless perfection" not biblical. I have spoken to a few people at our church who came out of the "Holiness Movement", and every one say's it was the best decision in their life to leave, it is considered a cult by many. God bless.