The Rapture
- Thread starter 2nicee
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
hi bladerunner hows it going uce? i agree with u.
i heard some unlearned man once teach revelation and he said the rider in revelation 6 was Jesus
i turned it off right there.
if folks just believed the bible we wouldnt be in this mess we are in. always looking for hidden meanings and hoops and loops, nothing can ever mean what it says.
i heard some unlearned man once teach revelation and he said the rider in revelation 6 was Jesus
i turned it off right there. if folks just believed the bible we wouldnt be in this mess we are in. always looking for hidden meanings and hoops and loops, nothing can ever mean what it says.
hi bladerunner hows it going uce? i agree with u.
i heard some unlearned man once teach revelation and he said the rider in revelation 6 was Jesus i turned it off right there.
if folks just believed the bible we wouldnt be in this mess we are in. always looking for hidden meanings and hoops and loops, nothing can ever mean what it says.
i heard some unlearned man once teach revelation and he said the rider in revelation 6 was Jesus
i turned it off right there. if folks just believed the bible we wouldnt be in this mess we are in. always looking for hidden meanings and hoops and loops, nothing can ever mean what it says.
So we can not take all of Revelation literally, but through symbolic language.
hi bladerunner hows it going uce? i agree with u.
i heard some unlearned man once teach revelation and he said the rider in revelation 6 was Jesus i turned it off right there.
if folks just believed the bible we wouldnt be in this mess we are in. always looking for hidden meanings and hoops and loops, nothing can ever mean what it says.
i heard some unlearned man once teach revelation and he said the rider in revelation 6 was Jesus
i turned it off right there. if folks just believed the bible we wouldnt be in this mess we are in. always looking for hidden meanings and hoops and loops, nothing can ever mean what it says.
If the literal sense makes good sense, then don't seek any other sense. As I have said so many times and as you yourself have just proven. The book of Revelation reveals the literal behind the symbolism. As you mentioned above, we are told that the stars in the Lord's right hand are representing the literal seven messengers of the churches. Likewise, we are told that the symbolism of the seven lampstands symbolically represent the literal seven churches. Therefore you know what the symbolsm is representing. What is so difficult about that?
The problem that we have is when people apply symbolism to everything and then apply their own literal meanings behind their symbols. When reading the book of Revelation we need to take note of the symbolism given, as well as the literal meaning behind the symbolism that is revealed.
It's not that difficult!
The problem that we have is when people apply symbolism to everything and then apply their own literal meanings behind their symbols. When reading the book of Revelation we need to take note of the symbolism given, as well as the literal meaning behind the symbolism that is revealed.
It's not that difficult!
Greetings Danny2186,
Interpreting the wrath of God as following Rev.16:16 is an on-going error. People think that because it states that "the great day of their wrath has come" is only referring to what takes place following that statement, which is not true.
First of all, we have to remember that the Lamb/Jesus is the One opening the seals and is therefore the One who is responsible for the following events and their fatalities.
And two, the words "has come" is in the aorist tense, which means that it is speaking about God's wrath in its entirety, which includes everything that took place prior to the announcement and everything that will take place after the announcement.
The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments all belong together as a set and are all apart of God's wrath, with Jesus returning after the 7th bowl has been poured out. It is through the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments that God is going to fulfill the long prophesied day of the Lord.
Interpreting the wrath of God as following Rev.16:16 is an on-going error. People think that because it states that "the great day of their wrath has come" is only referring to what takes place following that statement, which is not true.
First of all, we have to remember that the Lamb/Jesus is the One opening the seals and is therefore the One who is responsible for the following events and their fatalities.
And two, the words "has come" is in the aorist tense, which means that it is speaking about God's wrath in its entirety, which includes everything that took place prior to the announcement and everything that will take place after the announcement.
The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments all belong together as a set and are all apart of God's wrath, with Jesus returning after the 7th bowl has been poured out. It is through the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments that God is going to fulfill the long prophesied day of the Lord.
revelation 6:9-11 proves that the tribulation is NOT God’s wrath especially verse 10. Revelation only makes sense when you recognize chapters 1–11 are in chronological order. Chapter 12, the story starts over. I’ll prove it, chapter 11:15. THE KINGSOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD AND OF HIS CHRIST. I agree that the trumpets and bowls are God’s wrath. The seals are Satan’s wrath. Here’s my position: 3 and 1/2 years tribulation. Sun and moon darkened, rapture, 3 and 1/2 years God’s wrath.
Even futurists can't agree with everything. There's differing views of what the mountain is that crashes into the sea. Then in Revelation six it says stars fall to the earth. Stars are exponentially larger than planet earth. So, what do these stars symbolize? I ask in sincerity, to further understand your belief.
Rev.6:9-11 does not prove that at all. Please pay attention. I told you that it is Jesus who is opening the seals and therefore, he is the one who is responsible for the results of the seals and their fatalities.
Those under the alter at the opening of the 5th seal are saints who will have previously died during the first 3 1/2 years. Their brothers and fellow servants will be those who will be killed like they were during the great tribulation and is that group in white robes which no man can count as found in Rev.7:9-17.
The seals, trumpets and bowls judgments all belong to God's wrath and should not be separated as part being tribulation and part being wrath. Remember, by Jesus' opening of the seals, he is the one who is responsible for their results. Jesus is the one who tramples the wind-press of the wrath of God Almighty, which will be fulfilled via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.
Another thing to remember is that, the results of the 4th seal being opened will be a fourth of the earths population being killed within that first 3 1/2 years, which based on our current population would be over 1.7 billion people, with Jesus as the cause of it. The seals are also apart of God's wrath.
This is just an on-going false teaching that you heard and are repeating, because I've heard it over and over again. Everything that takes place after the church has been gathered is the time of God's wrath, which includes the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, the plagues brought by the two witnesses and the beasts authority given to him to reign. All of it belongs to God's wrath.
The above proves nothing! The celebrative announcement in Rev.11:15 is spoken after the sounding of the 7th trumpet prior to the results of that trumpet, which is Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven. Then in Rev.12:10 we have a similar celebratory announcement after Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven. His being cast out of heaven is apart of the on-going process of the authority of the kingdoms of the earth reverting from Satan back to God and mankind.
The earth and everything in it was originally give to Adam and Eva. When they disobeyed God, their authority went to Satan, as can bee seen from the following:
"The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. If you worship me, it will all be yours.”
Therefore, the celebratory announcement in both Rev.11:15 and 12:10 are in reference to the kingdoms reverting back from Satan to God and mankind. Following that you still have seven bowl judgments left to be fulfilled.
The seven years will be in fulfillment of the seventy sevens that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem in Dan.9:24. During that same time God will also be pouring out his wrath upon a Christ rejecting world, with the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments being in operations during the entire seven years and in the chronological order in which they are listed with the seals being opened, followed by the trumpets with the seven bowl judgements completing God's wrath.
Those under the alter at the opening of the 5th seal are saints who will have previously died during the first 3 1/2 years. Their brothers and fellow servants will be those who will be killed like they were during the great tribulation and is that group in white robes which no man can count as found in Rev.7:9-17.
The seals, trumpets and bowls judgments all belong to God's wrath and should not be separated as part being tribulation and part being wrath. Remember, by Jesus' opening of the seals, he is the one who is responsible for their results. Jesus is the one who tramples the wind-press of the wrath of God Almighty, which will be fulfilled via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.
Another thing to remember is that, the results of the 4th seal being opened will be a fourth of the earths population being killed within that first 3 1/2 years, which based on our current population would be over 1.7 billion people, with Jesus as the cause of it. The seals are also apart of God's wrath.
This is just an on-going false teaching that you heard and are repeating, because I've heard it over and over again. Everything that takes place after the church has been gathered is the time of God's wrath, which includes the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, the plagues brought by the two witnesses and the beasts authority given to him to reign. All of it belongs to God's wrath.
The above proves nothing! The celebrative announcement in Rev.11:15 is spoken after the sounding of the 7th trumpet prior to the results of that trumpet, which is Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven. Then in Rev.12:10 we have a similar celebratory announcement after Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven. His being cast out of heaven is apart of the on-going process of the authority of the kingdoms of the earth reverting from Satan back to God and mankind.
The earth and everything in it was originally give to Adam and Eva. When they disobeyed God, their authority went to Satan, as can bee seen from the following:
"The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. If you worship me, it will all be yours.”
Therefore, the celebratory announcement in both Rev.11:15 and 12:10 are in reference to the kingdoms reverting back from Satan to God and mankind. Following that you still have seven bowl judgments left to be fulfilled.
The seven years will be in fulfillment of the seventy sevens that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem in Dan.9:24. During that same time God will also be pouring out his wrath upon a Christ rejecting world, with the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments being in operations during the entire seven years and in the chronological order in which they are listed with the seals being opened, followed by the trumpets with the seven bowl judgements completing God's wrath.
what does rev 6:9-11 prove then ?...you haven’t told us. How can anyone conclude that this is God’s wrath ? I agree that the saints are killed in the 5th seal. I agree they are the ones in rev 7 ALONG WITH the rest of the saints who died in Christ. THATS THE RAPTURE PASSAGE. Compare rev 6 with Matthew 24. Perfect parallel. You have tribulation, sun and moon darkened, rapture, then God’s wrath. Here’s the icing on the cake, Matt 24:29-31 “after the tribulation” comes the rapture. What part of “after the tribulation” are people not understanding. Chapter 1-11 are in chronological order. Story starts over in chapter 12 with the birth of Christ.
