GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?
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Well there you go, and here is me thinking all this time that God's Word says what it says...
Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, TO DECLARE HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God.
All sins are forgiven but forgiveness is conditional on repentance and confession. (Matthew 3:8-10; Matthew 9:13; Luke 15:7; 1 John 1:9; 1 John 2:1-4; Hebrews 10:26-27). If there is no repentance and confession there is no forgiveness (Hebrews 10:26-27)
Who should we believe God or the teachings and traditions of man?
Romans 9:30-33
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
How is it that the gentiles who did not follow after the law still attain to righteousness?
But Israel, which followed after the law, did not attain to righteousness?
Romans 10:3-4
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
I agree but what does your post have to do with post # 246 saying that God's Law (10 commandments) are the standard of the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the judgement to come and that God's Law is forever and the laws of Moses from the Old Covenant being shadows that are not part of the new because they were fulfilled and pointed to Jesus?
May God bless you as you seek him through His Word....
Originally Posted by Grandpa
Romans 9:30-33
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Replied with.............
You replied..............
Now Grandpa is calling people names a fruit of the Spirit? Obedience to God's Word is indeed the fruit of faith if there is no obedience God's Word (not mine) says your faith is dead and you are still in your sins because faith works by love and love is the fulfilling of God's Law in those who walk in the Spirit. Those that are still in their sins have neither seen him or known him (Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 18; 20; 26; 1 John 3:3-9; Romans 8:1-4).
Romans 9:30-33 is indeed about righteousness. What does righteousness mean to you? Your post was clearly answered above maybe you did not understand it and why I was referring to faith and righteousness. Righteousness is to be made right for right doing and the standard for righteousness is God's Law (10 commandments).........
Psalms 119:172
My tongue shall speak of thy word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Our righteousness is as filthy rags............
Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our RIGHTEOUSNESS'S are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Our righteousness in only by the faith we have in God's Word and God's Word is the power of God unto salvation...
Philippines 3
8, Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9, And be found in him, NOT HAVING MY OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, WHICH IS OF THE LAW, but that which is through the FAITH OF CHRIST, the RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF GOD BY FAITH:
10, THAT I MIGHT KNOW HIM, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
So yes Grandpa the scriptures in your post were read correctly and answered appropriately.
We must follow and believe the Word of God over the teachings and traditions of man.....
Hi garee, God's Law does indeed represent the character of God. There are no laws in God's 10 commandments that are ceremonial. Only one is memorial because we are commanded to remember the 7th Day Sabbath as a sign we worship the true God of creation (Exodus 20:8-12; Ezekiel 20:12; 20). All of God's commandments are moral laws and are our duty of love to our God and neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40). Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in those who through faith walk in the Spirit (Romans 13:8-10; Romans 8:1-4)
This is what the OP is about seems you did not read it. The Sabbath has never been a shadow of anything because it is part of the finished work of creation before sin entered into the World. If it is part of a finished work and it was given when mankind was in harmony with God before sin had entered into the world how can it be a Shadow? It cannot because it is part of a completed work.
Who does God's Word call Israel........................
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[FONT="][/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT]Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. It has its origin from Gen 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel. This is God's people and today anyone the is following Jesus is part of God's spiritual Israel according to God's Word. The same New Covenant is written for God's people who are now spiritual Israel following. Scripture support;
For it is written…........
Let God be true and every man a liar that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged (Rom 3:4).
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, and to thy seed, which is Christ[FONT="]
Abraham’s seed is Israel, now who is Israel?
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus and if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
[/FONT]Gal 3:28-29,
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Col 3:11,
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Rom 10:11-13,
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 2:28-29, For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Jer 31:33-4,
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Heb 8:10-12,
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:14-17,
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Gal 3:29,
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise
The New Covenant is for God's Israel which represent God’s followers the believers. If you are not part of God's Israel you are not part of the New Covenant (Heb 8:10-12).
God's Israel are those that believe the Word of God and follow it and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15)
If you are not a part of God’s Israel as defined in God’s Word then the New Covenant is not for you because it is written…
Hebrews 8:10-12
10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11, And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12, For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. (Jeremiah 31:33-34; Ezekiel 36:26-27)
It is written he that says he knows him and keep not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. The 7th Day Sabbath is one of the 10 and if we willfully break it we commit sin and stand guilty before God and are in danger of the judgment. Sunday Worship is a teaching and tradition of man breaking the commandments of God. Jesus says if we follow the traditions and teachings of man over the Word of God we are not following God. (see Matthew 15:3-9).
Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God?
May God bless you as you seek him through His Word....
What do the scripture mean to you?
Let's see what God's Word says.............
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Key Scripture points...............
* Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)
* The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbelief (v2)
* For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
* Speaking of the 7th Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
* God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
* Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
* There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
* Those that enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) cease from works as God did v10
* We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
* The Word of God is powerful. v12
Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through keeping of a Sabbath or Sabbath observance. (I have provided Greek links below)
Hebrews 4:9 (NAS)
“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest G4520 to the people of God.”
The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)
Strong's Concordance 4520
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.
Strong's Greek 4520
σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)
So let’s pull Hebrews 4:1-12 all together?
The context is God’s rest from the week of creation on the 7th Day of the creation week (Heb 4:1-5). Those that did not enter into God’s rest (7th Day Sabbath) did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins) to God’s Word. The Gospel was preached unto them but they did not believe it (Heb 4:2). God did not give them His true rest (Heb 4:5-8). This is the same warning for those that disobey Him and do not follow His Word. Only those that believe and obey God’s Word enter into his 7th Day Sabbath rest (Heb 4:6, 9, 10-12). So you can see Jesus is not a Sabbath. The Sabbath is the 7th Day of the Week. Jesus is Lord of this Day because he is the creator of this day (Heb 4:4; Mark 2:28).
There is no scripture in all of God’s Word that says that Jesus is a Sabbath only that he is the Lord of the Sabbath and he made it for all of mankind and commands us to keep it as a holy day as a memorial of creation (Mark 2:27-28; Gen 2:1-3; Ex 20:8-11)
Snoozy, you are only 30.
Consider your last day.
If you are still going, nah, nah, nobody's keeping the sabbath, nobody keeps God's commandments,
u don't, u don't, u don't, when you are in your 60s,
is Jesus going to raise you up?
Are you going to be able to make a sabbath for Him then?
Your knowledge will be the same as it is today, maybe less if your memory fades.
Take it from me, one who is in His last day.
I'm looking around me, and I see, for many the hour is too late.
So what if some or even if none of them are keeping it as they say.
Still hear them.
You could be slicing up a true anointed of the Lord, and you would not know it.
There are some here in their last day, still saying, nah, nah, u don't. nobody can.
Faith only. Love only. Like evil parrots.
You think these are believers?
By the time one is 60, they should have an extensive knowledge of the law.
Their lamb offerings should number in the thousands by then. At least.
And if it is too hard for you, take it to Jesus,
He will hear you.
Does Jesus keep His word?
Paul
Ye shall not respect persons in judgment;
but ye shall hear the small as well as the great;
ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's:
and the cause that is too hard for you,
bring it unto Me, and I will hear it.
Deuteronomy 1:17
I think you need a new heart
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”[/FONT]
The priest are to scarifice 2 lambs on the Sbabath for the whole nation, not each person do it.... WOW. Israel would be out of lambs in a week. and we are under Yahshua, the High priest after the order of the Messenger of Righteousness...
You are picking and choosin and condemming the Law, I would not advise that.
James 4:11, "Brothers, do not speak against one another. He that speaks against a brother and judges his brother, speaks against the Law and judges the Law. And if you judge the Law, you are not a doer of the Law but a judge."
They were blameless because they were doing the work and will of YHWH, that is the purpose of the Sabbath, the pharisees made it about sitting in your house twiddling your thumbs...
Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."
Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do right on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”
Isayah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."
Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”
Mat 24:20, "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on the Sabbath Day."
Being dead to the law does not mean you can be disobedient to it... The part that was not highlighted in the verse you quoted is that you may be obedient to it through faith that works by love. Love is the fulfilling (doing) of the law in those that walk by faith in the Spirit (Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:3-9; Romans 8:1-4)
Hizikyah
I mean, you do well to offer scripture,
but be careful, the point of your sword is very sharp.
I am doing a new thread on animals in scripture.
Coming up will be how to make burnt whole offerings to God.
Keep your eye upon that thread.
No animals shall be killed or harmed in the making of it.
Mercy
Paul
That's not very nice.
I mean, you do well to offer scripture,
but be careful, the point of your sword is very sharp.
I am doing a new thread on animals in scripture.
Coming up will be how to make burnt whole offerings to God.
Keep your eye upon that thread.
No animals shall be killed or harmed in the making of it.
Mercy
Paul
Hey Aussie, like your style.
I too found, upon examining St Paul's word more closely,
and asking lots of deep questions as to why the words used were used,
I found he is not saying what the faithsayers are saying.
A lot of their arguments fall over easily,
some take a bit of digging.
Some verses are still a mystery to me.
But it doesn't matter.
Because Jesus is the Saviour.
Overall, St Paul is saying to believe in Jesus, and in God,
so if we just keep God's words faithfully,
then I believe we are doing what St Paul preached.
And thanks to Jesus,
my helper through all this
Paul
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Luke 16:31
I too found, upon examining St Paul's word more closely,
and asking lots of deep questions as to why the words used were used,
I found he is not saying what the faithsayers are saying.
A lot of their arguments fall over easily,
some take a bit of digging.
Some verses are still a mystery to me.
But it doesn't matter.
Because Jesus is the Saviour.
Overall, St Paul is saying to believe in Jesus, and in God,
so if we just keep God's words faithfully,
then I believe we are doing what St Paul preached.
And thanks to Jesus,
my helper through all this
Paul
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Luke 16:31
Originally Posted by valiant
Being dead to the law means that we are no longer bound by it because we are united with Christ and produce FRUIT apart from the Law.
Thank God I do not have to look back over my shoulder at the threatening of the Law, My eyes are fixed on Jesus.
Valiant,
I couldn't imagine myself going through life and on my death bed still saying...
it means you have been dead to the law all your life.
I'm so sorry.
What, like a storm cloud?
Will it jump out of our Bibles and eat us?
Will God deceive us and lead us astray?
Be scared of God for not keeping like He said, my friend.
God has the power to destroy or to save us.
The law is still just words.
Condemnatory if you haven't been faithful to keep them as commanded.
Couldn't you handle being told?
Paul
For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish My covenant with you.
And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new.
And I will set My tabernacle among you: and My soul shall not abhor you.
And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be My people.
Leviticus 26:9-12
I couldn't imagine myself going through life and on my death bed still saying...
If you are still saying that at age 83,
it means you have been dead to the law all your life.
I'm so sorry.
Still calling it threatening means it still looms over you.
What, like a storm cloud?
Will it jump out of our Bibles and eat us?
Will God deceive us and lead us astray?
Be scared of God for not keeping like He said, my friend.
God has the power to destroy or to save us.
The law is still just words.
Condemnatory if you haven't been faithful to keep them as commanded.
Couldn't you handle being told?
Paul
For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish My covenant with you.
And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new.
And I will set My tabernacle among you: and My soul shall not abhor you.
And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be My people.
Leviticus 26:9-12
With scripture. Who should we believe the Word of God or the teachings and traditions of man?
Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God. There is no scripture in all of God’s Word that says that Jesus is a Sabbath only that he is the Lord of the Sabbath and he made it for all of mankind and commands us to keep it as a holy day as a memorial of creation (Mark 2:27-28; Gen 2:1-3; Ex 20:8-11). The same as there is no command that says God's 4th commandment is now abolished and we are commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.
Jesus says that if we knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men that break God's commandments we are not following God. Who should we believe and follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God? Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments. If we brake God's Law we do not show our love to God or man. If we brake one we are guilty before God of breaking them all and do not know him (James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:3-9)
May God bless you as you seek him through His Word..
So in your objective of the thread to incourage people not to go to church on Sunday?
You hit the nail on the head!
That is another gospel. Reminds me of the Israelites who had a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge (Romans 10:1-4). It's a real shame to see so much zeal wasted on UNBELIEF.
Hi IamWhoIam,
So nice to meet you here. No my aim is to point everyone who has ears to hear and eyes to see to God's Word. He must increase and I must decrease. It is only through the Word of God that anyone can find him who loves all. He is calling all that hear him and says with an everlasting love have I love you and with loving kindness have I drawn you.
Jesus says if we follow the teachings and traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following him who loves all (Matthew 15:3-9). Only those that believe and follow the true Shepard here his voice....
May God bless you as you seek him through His Word...
Nice to meet you too, so let me ask want happens if someone reads the thread who is weak or very new to the bible, and they get alittle freaked out and stop going to church on Sunday?
as well do you go too a synagogue on the sabbath is that day Saturday?