GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[valiant]

The bible says if you accept the blood of Christ, past sins are forgiven,
this does not say all your future sins are to be covered at that point does it ?

Actually it does. The blood of Jesus goes on cleansing us from all sin. The blood of Christ covers ALL sin. How else would future sin be dealt with?

Romans 3:25 (KJV)
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood,
to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,
through the forbearance of God;

You have totally misunderstood what Paul is saying. He is speaking of Old Testament sins which were forgiven because Christ was going to die, which meanwhile God had overlooked. Read what follows 'at this time'.

1 John 1:8 (KJV)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:9 (KJV)
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


1 John 1:6 (KJV)
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness,
we lie, and do not the truth:

These verses follow 1 John 1.7, 'the blood of Jesus Christ, God's Son, goes on cleansing us from all sin'.

1 John 2:1 (KJV)
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin,
we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

And HE is the propitiation for ours sins, past, present and future;

Hebrews 10:26 (KJV)
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

This was written to Hebrews considering Christ. He is saying for them it is now Christ or judgment. The old sacrifices for sins no longer apply,

 

[IamWhoIam]

I believe the evil one would like nothing more than to try and shut down any gathering of people who seek Christ no matter what day of the week they convene.

 

[phil36]

The bible says if you accept the blood of Christ, past sins are forgiven,
this does not say all your future sins are to be covered at that point does it ?


Romans 3:25 (KJV)
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood,
to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,
through the forbearance of God;

1 John 1:8 (KJV)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:9 (KJV)
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


1 John 1:6 (KJV)
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness,
we lie, and do not the truth:


1 John 2:1 (KJV)
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin,
we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:


Hebrews 10:26 (KJV)
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

​

Hi Prove-all, it's the heart of the gospel.


All sins are forgiven, past, present and future. In the once and for all atonement of Christ. If this where not so, every time we sinned we would need a sacrifice to cover them. This is the heart of the gospel.. It was once for all time accomplished.


I am glad you used part of Romans 3, for Paul in the fist 2 chapters had laboured the fact that none where righteous, neither Jew nor Greek. In fact, v20 states that by works of the law no one will be justified. The He exclaims with great praise.. ‘But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law (v21)’. He then goes on to unpack what this means.


Now we get to the verse 26 you provided above. ‘whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, by his blood, to show his righteousness, because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God;’


TheNLT, brings out the meaning of this tight knit group of verses (one sentence in the Greek).


“For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past,”


Christ is the final, once for all time propitiation. It showed how God is Just and the Justifier and the justifier of the one in Christ Jesus(26b).


You see this text (Rom 3:25) is not saying only past sins are forgiven. Again, to think this is to say that all future sins are not atoned for once and for all, so need more sacrifices. This is not what the text is about.


So now that we have cleared that up, we can look at the 1 John texts you provide. John in His epistle is talking to those who are Christian's already So all their sins have already ‘once for all been atoned for and removed from them like the psalmist eloquently states ‘As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us Psalm103:12’. Christ is the final and better scapegoat, that dies the death to sin and removes sin from us Lev 16:10.


So as Christians when they sin they are not under condemnation, but thefathers displeasure. When a child does wrong he comes under the fathers discipline, he still remains the fathers child. When we sin,we will come under the fathers displeasure and bring discipline. That's why we confess our sins, 1) we know its wrong and 2) we loveGod with all our hearts soul and mind.


Basicallyput it is the gospel. We are justified (made right with God) in thework of Christ alone, this is our position as it were, and on thatbasis we are in familial relationship with God.


Youalso provided Hebrews 10:26, Did you read the whole chapter? Itexplains he above aswell take the time and read the whole chapter.


V12- Butwhen Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins,he sat down at the right hand of God,


v14Forby a single offering he has perfected for all time those who arebeing sanctified.


V 17 then he adds,
“Iwill remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offeringfor sin.



This brings usto v26ff, here we have a classic display of one who deliberatelysins, the True Christian will not go on deliberately sinning… thediscipline of the Father will bring them to their knee. Rather, itis a warning of the dangers of sin, and it refers to those have oncebeen enlightened and refuse to live and believe the truth.. for thewriter of the Hebrews finishes the section with:



V39 - Butwe are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of thosewho have faith and preserve their souls.

 

[comingfrom]

I do have to say something to this.
Bless you, GB.

exactly. they try to point back to the Torah, not upward toward Christ.

Yous have been pointing inwards, to your own faith.
Maybe you forget, but I haven't.

You say that faith saves. And only your faith of course, and your gospel,
founded upon a misinterpretation of some verses of St Paul.
Sure a lot of men will confirm you, but God's law does not.
Yous admit it yourselves.

You have the faith of the Atheists, when it comes to believing God to keep all His commandment.

It hasn't mattered to you when shown His words.
It doesn't matter to you when shown sayings of St Paul which contradict your gospel.
It doesn't matter to you that there alternate interpretations to his sayings you offer,
held by many brothers in Jesus Christ.
The ones that have the faith to even keep His law.

Reproof to you is like water is to a duck's back.
Getting you to keep Jesus' sayings is like trying to draw water in a leaky cistern.

And you will probably say the same of us.
But I am glad, for I have all the Lord's word.
If you can show me out of the law where I do or say wrong, I will hear you.

But you know diddly-squat about the law.
Everything you know about the law is negatives taught by men.
Sayings meant to keep us away from it.
Not Jesus' sayings.
That's why you are moved to attack and condemn the teachers of Jesus' commandments.

And yes, I am incensed.
But my incense is frank.

You need to open up the rest of the Bible.
You're running on 1% God's words and 99% faith in your faith.
And you think that will save you.

Tells us, you who are pointing upward to Christ, how do you get Him to come?
Testify to us of the Lord.
Tell us what He told you when you brought your bull unto Him.
Because I cannot believe He approves what you bring to us.
Don't just repeat what so many say, and throw the same verses that so many throw.
You think we haven't your gospel?
There are good reasons why we chose it not.

OK, I pointed to your sins, now I point back to the word of God.
You say Torah instead, because it helps you to forget it is the Lord's words you are rejecting.
And you have forgotten, that the word is God.
And Jesus is the word.

If you want to point to Christ, start quoting His words.
And keep His sayings that you speak His sayings.

But know that right now, you are slashing away at the anointed for all you are worth.
Because they do teach His word.
You can't touch us, but we will reprove you back.
Paul

 

[comingfrom]

Hi Phil36

Hi Prove-all, it's the heart of the gospel.

The law is the heart of God's gospel of the kingdom.

The promised land awaits.
Paul

 

[phil36]

Hi Phil36

The law is the heart of God's gospel of the kingdom.

The promised land awaits.
Paul

Hi Comingfrom,

No..Jesus Christ is the heart of the gospel.

 

[valiant]

Hi Phil36

The law is the heart of God's gospel of the kingdom.

The promised land awaits.
Paul

we have been made dead to the Law by the body of Christ, that we be united with another, even to Him Who is raised from the dead so that we may bear fruit unto God

 

[Snoozy]

how did this OP prove that sabbath is still binding on christians??

 

[Hizikyah]

we have been made dead to the Law by the body of Christ, that we be united with another, even to Him Who is raised from the dead so that we may bear fruit unto God

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"[/FONT]

I think someone misunderstands Paul;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."[/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

Awwww DO I HAVE TO?!?!?!?! ...We get to meet with Yah on His holy convocation...

 

[Grandpa]

I think someone misunderstands Paul;

Ha ha ha. You think?

 

[MadebyHim]

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. Hebrews 4:1-9

 

[Hizikyah]

Ha ha ha. You think?

Yes I do think...

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."


Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."


1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"


Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."


Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"



Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

I think someone misunderstands Paul;

2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

 

[phil36]

Hi Hizikyah,

Just a question out of curiosity. Why do you transliterate some names and use English for others. Now I understand why people use YHWH, but Kepha, is he divine? you do the same with John is John a divine name.

It seems very strange indeed, Does it make one more spiritual?

 

[Grandpa]

Yes I do think...

Isn't it ironic? Don't you think?

Its like rain on your wedding day.

Its the good advice that you just didn't take.

(couldn't help it. Everything is funny today. Even you Hiz.)

 

[Grandpa]

Hi Hizikyah,

Just a question out of curiosity. Why do you transliterate some names and use English for others. Now I understand why people use YHWH, but Kepha, is he divine? you do the same with John is John a divine name.

It seems very strange indeed, Does it make one more spiritual?

Obviously....

Are you dumb or something.... lol

 

[phil36]

Obviously....

Are you dumb or something.... lol

Obviously I am lol. I think I will all myself Φίλιππος (philippos) Has a real NT spiritual ring to it.. You see I'm catching on lol.

 

[Hizikyah]

Hi Hizikyah,

Just a question out of curiosity. Why do you transliterate some names and use English for others. Now I understand why people use YHWH, but Kepha, is he divine? you do the same with John is John a divine name.

It seems very strange indeed, Does it make one more spiritual?

Im still waiting on your reply about those Scriptures you wont touch... but no I see you are picking at me tho. I use multiple translations,sometimes I write both names, sometimes only one.

does it make one more spiritual, you are funny. NO it dies not, but this is a sign if a man is spiritual or carnal:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:14, “For we know that the Law is spiritual...”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it his not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."[/FONT]


Do what the Word calls spiritual = the world calls you carnal

Do what the Word calls carnal = the world calls you spiritual

I will trust the Word.

 

[phil36]

Im still waiting on your reply about those Scriptures you wont touch... but no I see you are picking at me tho. I use multiple translations,sometimes I write both names, sometimes only one.

does it make one more spiritual, you are funny. NO it dies not, but this is a sign if a man is spiritual or carnal:

Romans 7:14, “For we know that the Law is spiritual...”


Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it his not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."


Do what the Word calls spiritual = the world calls you carnal

Do what the Word calls carnal = the world calls you spiritual

I will trust the Word.

Hi Hizikyah,

I will fill in the blank for you:

Romans 8:1-2English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK)

Life in the Spirit

8 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.[a] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

Kind regards

Φίλιππος

 

[Hizikyah]

Hi Hizikyah,

I will fill in the blank for you:

Romans 8:1-2English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK)

Life in the Spirit

8 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.[a] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

Kind regards

Φίλιππος

Let us look at a more complete array of the Scriptures concerning this topic;

Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Messiah Yahshua, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

Do you also believe the 2nd 2 verses I posted? Or only the 1st?