The Rapture
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It doesn't mention Jesus coming during any of the trumpets, much less the clouds.
There are many trumpets listed in scripture with different purposes. The "last trumpet" of 1 Cor.15:52 is not the 7th trumpet of the trumpet judgments. If you will read the 7th trumpet, no where in or around the context is there anything mentioned about the church being gathered. In addition, the "loud trumpet call" of Matt.24:31 is also not the "last trumpet" of 1 Cor.15:52. Reason being is that the 7th trumpet is a plague of wrath, where the "last trumpet" is the blessed hope for the church. If the church were to be gathered at the 7th trumpet, it would mean that the church would have to go through the seals and the other six trumpets, which are all the wrath of God.
The the Lord arriving on the clouds of heaven in Matt.24:30, is synonymous with the clouds mentioned in Rev.1:7 and that because they are speaking of the same event, which is the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.
It is of paramount to discern between the gathering of the church vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. They are two different events.
Then you must abandon futurism all together, and become a historicist or preterist.
Futurism was also "invented" by Jesuits.
You can find all kinds of opinions about the end times from the early church era.
But I gotta say amillennialism has been the standard in both catholic and protestant circles. Because of the simplicity and its clearly in all the creeds including the Apostle's creed.
Futurism was also "invented" by Jesuits.
You can find all kinds of opinions about the end times from the early church era.
But I gotta say amillennialism has been the standard in both catholic and protestant circles. Because of the simplicity and its clearly in all the creeds including the Apostle's creed.
Just as the gathering at His appearing and His literal return are 2 events.
The first is taking the dead and then those abiding in Him from among the living up into the air to be forever with the Lord in taking them to His Father's House for the Marriage Supper.
The second is when He has touched down on earth ( see Zechariah 14:1-5 ) to defeat the world's armies and then after placing Satan in the pit for a thousand years, then He resurrects those unrepentant saints found in iniquity that were left behind as castaways at the pre trib rapture event because they still have His seal.
That means Jesus is not in the air when this so called "first resurrection" takes place in Revelation 20th chapter that many post tribbers fail to comprehend. The phrase "first resurrection" was not meant to be applied as the only resurrection, but that the resurrection of those unrepentant saints left behind and any new believers that were killed during the great tribulation are the ones resurrected BEFORE the rest of the dead are resurrected later on.
The pre trib rapture had happened; but then that OTHER resurrection will happen first after the great tribulation BEFORE the rest of the dead will be resurrected later on at the great white throne judgment.
God is coming to judge His House first at the pre trib rapture event because of the falling away from the faith. 1 Peter 4:17
God will be excommunicating unrepentant believers found in any iniquity that denies Him and that is how and why He denies them because they are workers of iniquity; not because they were never saved. Jesus will keep the souls of those saints left behind in well doing while they suffer the coming fire on the earth & the subsequent great tribulation as a result.1 Peter 4:17-19
If the church is supposed to excommunicate unrepentant believers to lead them to repentance, every body here better believe God will do it at the pre trib rapture event. The call to go before that throne of grace for help to discern & to depart from iniquity & to keep them from their iniquity is greater now than it ever has been so that believers can be received as vessels unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper held in His honor and to His glory as well as the Father's glory.
The first is taking the dead and then those abiding in Him from among the living up into the air to be forever with the Lord in taking them to His Father's House for the Marriage Supper.
The second is when He has touched down on earth ( see Zechariah 14:1-5 ) to defeat the world's armies and then after placing Satan in the pit for a thousand years, then He resurrects those unrepentant saints found in iniquity that were left behind as castaways at the pre trib rapture event because they still have His seal.
That means Jesus is not in the air when this so called "first resurrection" takes place in Revelation 20th chapter that many post tribbers fail to comprehend. The phrase "first resurrection" was not meant to be applied as the only resurrection, but that the resurrection of those unrepentant saints left behind and any new believers that were killed during the great tribulation are the ones resurrected BEFORE the rest of the dead are resurrected later on.
The pre trib rapture had happened; but then that OTHER resurrection will happen first after the great tribulation BEFORE the rest of the dead will be resurrected later on at the great white throne judgment.
God is coming to judge His House first at the pre trib rapture event because of the falling away from the faith. 1 Peter 4:17
God will be excommunicating unrepentant believers found in any iniquity that denies Him and that is how and why He denies them because they are workers of iniquity; not because they were never saved. Jesus will keep the souls of those saints left behind in well doing while they suffer the coming fire on the earth & the subsequent great tribulation as a result.1 Peter 4:17-19
If the church is supposed to excommunicate unrepentant believers to lead them to repentance, every body here better believe God will do it at the pre trib rapture event. The call to go before that throne of grace for help to discern & to depart from iniquity & to keep them from their iniquity is greater now than it ever has been so that believers can be received as vessels unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper held in His honor and to His glory as well as the Father's glory.
nop, satanist use the Bible do not mean Bible origin fron Satan.
If satan write bible than bible origin from Satan.
to my knowledge, the first people who wrote pretrib doctrine is Jesuit. So pretrib doctrine invented by jesuit
This is the definition of invent
in·vent
inˈvent/
verb
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If satan write bible than bible origin from Satan.
to my knowledge, the first people who wrote pretrib doctrine is Jesuit. So pretrib doctrine invented by jesuit
This is the definition of invent
in·vent
inˈvent/
verb
- create or design (something that has not existed before); be the originator of.
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"he invented an improved form of the steam engine"[/COLOR]
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]originate, create, design, devise, contrive, develop, innovate; More
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
- make up (an idea, name, story, etc.), especially so as to deceive.
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"I did not have to invent any tales about my past"[/COLOR]
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]make up, fabricate, concoct, hatch, dream up, conjure up; informalcook up
"they invented the story for a laugh"
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
- make up (an idea, name, story, etc.), especially so as to deceive.
Feedback
Personally with the four seperate eschatologyical views that theologians for centuries have come up with I don't care which group of Christians came up with any of them. I am unable to place my trust in any of them Jesuit or not. What is your problem with the Jesuit? They are fellow Christians.
Revelation and Daniel using symbols are as clear as mud. Only looking back can some things be understood. Daniel's statue for example. Hindsight gives clarity to the mud. About 55 years ago I started researching Daniel and Revelation and tried to figure out a timeline and failed. Then I did reading and had classes for elders and deacons on the subject from pastors of the church I was attending. The result was that the timeline remained as clear as mud. They explained each of the eschatologyical views. There were 4 pastors and each view was held by one of the pastors.
So are you able to explain the timeline accurately. If so will it fit one of the 4 views or be a different one?
Revelation and Daniel using symbols are as clear as mud. Only looking back can some things be understood. Daniel's statue for example. Hindsight gives clarity to the mud. About 55 years ago I started researching Daniel and Revelation and tried to figure out a timeline and failed. Then I did reading and had classes for elders and deacons on the subject from pastors of the church I was attending. The result was that the timeline remained as clear as mud. They explained each of the eschatologyical views. There were 4 pastors and each view was held by one of the pastors.
So are you able to explain the timeline accurately. If so will it fit one of the 4 views or be a different one?
Another bible expert. Like how many does that make now? This thread is just full of Bible experts and an equal number of ignorant people who do not study, don't know proper interpretation, are not lead by the spirit.