-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
It is only required if you want remission of your past sins. (Acts 2:38)
It is only required if you wan to be "in" Christ. (Rom 6:3)
It is only required if you want to kill the old you and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, (reborn). (Rom 6:4-6)
It is only required if you want to live without sin. (Rom 6:7)
It is only required if you want to "suffer with Christ". (1 Peter 4:1)
It is only required if you wan to be "in" Christ. (Rom 6:3)
It is only required if you want to kill the old you and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, (reborn). (Rom 6:4-6)
It is only required if you want to live without sin. (Rom 6:7)
It is only required if you want to "suffer with Christ". (1 Peter 4:1)
You are right, it is not required for salvation, but it is a sign of obedience to the Gospel. Acts 15:6-9
“Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”
How did this come about, Acts 15:5 “But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
What was the answer, Acts 15:18-21 “Known to God from eternity are all His works.19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God,20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”
No mention of baptism here for salvation, but we know that in obedience to the Gospel we should be baptized. Matthew 28:19-20 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.”
Observe/obey in accordence to the Gospel.
“Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”
How did this come about, Acts 15:5 “But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
What was the answer, Acts 15:18-21 “Known to God from eternity are all His works.19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God,20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”
No mention of baptism here for salvation, but we know that in obedience to the Gospel we should be baptized. Matthew 28:19-20 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.”
Observe/obey in accordence to the Gospel.
When I see this question, this verse comes to remembrance.
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word.
Ephesians 5:26
I believe, in scripture, water is an analogy for, or symbolic of, word.
And God's word is the pure water,
is the water Jesus gives, which springs into a well of everlasting life.
That's not to say that immersion in cold water does not help
when making your vow to the Lord.
A good shock to the system during the ritual can help define the separation of the old you.
And remember what Jesus did after He was baptized.
Walk, and follow the Holy Ghost, while you have the light.
That you may be children of the light. Love.
Paul
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word.
Ephesians 5:26
I believe, in scripture, water is an analogy for, or symbolic of, word.
And God's word is the pure water,
is the water Jesus gives, which springs into a well of everlasting life.
That's not to say that immersion in cold water does not help
when making your vow to the Lord.
A good shock to the system during the ritual can help define the separation of the old you.
And remember what Jesus did after He was baptized.
Walk, and follow the Holy Ghost, while you have the light.
That you may be children of the light. Love.
Paul
You raise a good point.
One I noticed when first coming to the scripture, and am still working to resolve, for Jesus did indeed send us to baptize.
The gospel of Matthew concludes with
[FONT="]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
[/FONT]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway; even to the end of the world. Amen.
Matthew 28:19-20
I am now of the opinion that baptizing
in the name of Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
is immersing them in God's words, as in, teachings of God's word.
And exhortations to keep all the commandments.
Which, said another way, is preaching the Gospel.
And, in a way, St Paul is showing us that.
He wasn't the type to do baptisms, as John the baptist was, but he was immersing people in the word
in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost,
teaching them to be doers of the word.
John the Baptist wasn't the type to stand around teaching Torah,
and he just called upon them to repent, and baptized them in water.
I don't think either was wrong, and we need them both.
Bless.
Paul
One I noticed when first coming to the scripture, and am still working to resolve, for Jesus did indeed send us to baptize.
The gospel of Matthew concludes with
[FONT="]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
[/FONT]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway; even to the end of the world. Amen.
Matthew 28:19-20
I am now of the opinion that baptizing
in the name of Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
is immersing them in God's words, as in, teachings of God's word.
And exhortations to keep all the commandments.
Which, said another way, is preaching the Gospel.
And, in a way, St Paul is showing us that.
He wasn't the type to do baptisms, as John the baptist was, but he was immersing people in the word
in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost,
teaching them to be doers of the word.
John the Baptist wasn't the type to stand around teaching Torah,
and he just called upon them to repent, and baptized them in water.
I don't think either was wrong, and we need them both.
Bless.
Paul
About the thief on the cross not being baptized, this is what I understand...
Baptism is a participation in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
The thief died under the Old Covenant, since Jesus was alive at that time, and had not been glorified.
Baptism is a command for the disciples of Jesus (and for us) in Mt 28:18-20, and not for the commander and Lord, Jesus.
So, if Jesus told the thief that he would be in Paradise, that is the discretion exercised by Jesus.
If one wants to know whether baptism is necessary for salvation; whether it must be done in obedience; and how urgently must it be done, it would help to study the Book of Acts in detail. The Book of Acts is the response of the apostles/disciples to the final instructions/commission given by Jesus in Mt 28:18-20
Baptism is a participation in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
The thief died under the Old Covenant, since Jesus was alive at that time, and had not been glorified.
Baptism is a command for the disciples of Jesus (and for us) in Mt 28:18-20, and not for the commander and Lord, Jesus.
So, if Jesus told the thief that he would be in Paradise, that is the discretion exercised by Jesus.
If one wants to know whether baptism is necessary for salvation; whether it must be done in obedience; and how urgently must it be done, it would help to study the Book of Acts in detail. The Book of Acts is the response of the apostles/disciples to the final instructions/commission given by Jesus in Mt 28:18-20
I think you are correct here... it was Jesus' prerogative to save whoever he chose to... He has the power to do so. He also said, as you pointed out, for US to go and make disciples, baptizing them....
I would not want to base my whole belief system about baptism on ONE cherry-picked scripture, and say that if it was good enough for the thief on the cross, then I'll skip baptism, too.... If I was not hanging on a cross beside Jesus, I don't think I'd count on being saved without baptism. That was a "one time deal"....
You have to choose to ignore ALL the other scriptures that tell us and show us that it is necessary..
I would not want to base my whole belief system about baptism on ONE cherry-picked scripture, and say that if it was good enough for the thief on the cross, then I'll skip baptism, too.... If I was not hanging on a cross beside Jesus, I don't think I'd count on being saved without baptism. That was a "one time deal"....
You have to choose to ignore ALL the other scriptures that tell us and show us that it is necessary..
No Jesus did not violate the ceremonial law used as a shadow of the true unseen.
The Son of man got under the authority of his own will and before he began the priestly duties and was sent out into the wilderness to present a scragoat.
Water baptism has it foundation when a person had a desire to become a member of the priesthood. Jesus being from the tribe of Judas required a Levi, John the baptist to officiate the ceremonial law. Then after becoming a member of the priesthood he then could act as a officiator and baptize his own disrples who also had a desire to become a member of priest hood. We represent Christ our High priest . he is our scapegoat.
Context is needed..It did not originate as a new testament principle. No such thing as a spiritual(not seen) sign gift.
Signs are for those who rebel against prophecy . Christ called them an evil generation.
Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.Joh 3:25
Water as that seen comes from the clouds that are also seen. If a person has a desire to become a member of the priesthood they to can be ceremonial baptized with water as a sign that point to our High priest not seen .
The Son of man got under the authority of his own will and before he began the priestly duties and was sent out into the wilderness to present a scragoat.
Water baptism has it foundation when a person had a desire to become a member of the priesthood. Jesus being from the tribe of Judas required a Levi, John the baptist to officiate the ceremonial law. Then after becoming a member of the priesthood he then could act as a officiator and baptize his own disrples who also had a desire to become a member of priest hood. We represent Christ our High priest . he is our scapegoat.
Context is needed..It did not originate as a new testament principle. No such thing as a spiritual(not seen) sign gift.
Signs are for those who rebel against prophecy . Christ called them an evil generation.
Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.Joh 3:25
Water as that seen comes from the clouds that are also seen. If a person has a desire to become a member of the priesthood they to can be ceremonial baptized with water as a sign that point to our High priest not seen .
You keep saying this, but I see no indication that baptism had any ties to that practice. If that is the case, then John was baptizing ALL those people into the Levitical priesthood? He could not have been baptizing them into the priesthood that Jesus established, that we are all a part of, because it had not been established yet.
Baptism, as a means of obtaining forgiveness of sins pretty much did originate in the NT... although the command for Naaman to go dip in the river Jordan 7 times possibly could be seen as a precursor... but there is no mention of that connection made in the NT.
We do have the example of Noah and his family being saved through water by the "washing away of all sinners" in the flood, and how baptism corresponds to that.
Baptism, as a means of obtaining forgiveness of sins pretty much did originate in the NT... although the command for Naaman to go dip in the river Jordan 7 times possibly could be seen as a precursor... but there is no mention of that connection made in the NT.
We do have the example of Noah and his family being saved through water by the "washing away of all sinners" in the flood, and how baptism corresponds to that.