Not By Works

[gb9]

Romans 7 -13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me?



Romans 7 -
7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.
12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.

13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin*.

1 John 3:4, "...for sin is the transgression of the Law."

2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.”

Acts16:3, “Paul wanted Timothy to accompany him, and he took him and circumcised him.”

Galatians 5:2, “Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole Law”

Galatians 6:2, “Carry each others burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

Galatians 6:5, “For every man shall bear his own burden.”

2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.”

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."


Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."


1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"


Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."


Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 7 v.6 - but now we have been released from the law and it's penalty, having died ( through Christ ) to that by which we were held captive, so that we can serve God in the newness of Sprit, and not in the oldness of the letter ( of the law ).

very selective verse quoting here. conveniently leaving out a verse that shoots down Hebrew roots deception.

 

[VCO]

Peter shared something he felt needed to be known.. many here are making a mountain out of a mole hill because it is not someone they agree with.. if the shoe was on the other foot many would play it down..

All I hope for is peace and forgiveness.. for all concerned.

The problem is that when you tread on people and act brutish they will want to come back and expose you.

Does Peter deserve the onslaught? I think not.

Peter shared links and why any are calling for a ban I know not.. peace between Peter and DC .. I hope so.

Are you suggesting we TOLERATE one trying to spread a False Gospel and the teachings of a FALSE PROPHET, AND OPENLY VIOLATES THE CC RULES? If so, that kind of LIBERALIST thinking is as unbiblical as the teachings of a FALSE PROPHET.

Galatians 2:11 (NCV)
[SUP]11[/SUP] When Peter came to Antioch, I challenged him to his face, because he was wrong.

2 Corinthians 11:3-4 (NIV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. {That is not a good thing.}

Galatians 1:6-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from Him who called
you by the grace of Christ ⌊and are turning⌋ to a different gospel—
[SUP]7 [/SUP] not that there is another ⌊gospel⌋, but there are some who are troubling you
and want to change the good news about the Messiah.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel other
than what we have preached to you, a curse be on him!
[SUP]9 [/SUP] As we have said before, I now say again: If anyone preaches to you a gospel
contrary to what you received, a curse be on him!

1 Timothy 1:18-20 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Timothy, my son, I am giving you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies previously made about you, so that by them you may strongly engage in battle,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] having faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and have suffered the shipwreck of their faith.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Hymenaeus and Alexander are among them, and I have delivered them to Satan, so that they may be taught not to blaspheme.

Acts 20:28-31 (NIV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.


Matthew 7:15-20 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.


2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.


SO HOW MUCH TOLERANCE DID PAUL HAVE FOR THOSE TRYING TO SPREAD FALSE DOCTRINE AND ATTACKING THE FLOCK?

 

[Hizikyah]

Romans 7 v.6 - but now we have been released from the law and it's penalty, having died ( through Christ ) to that by which we were held captive, so that we can serve God in the newness of Sprit, and not in the oldness of the letter ( of the law ).

Here is an example of the Letter v the Spirit for those who have no clue what Israel did 2,000 years ago and still do;

Deuteronomy 5:22, “These Words יהוה spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a loud voice, and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.”

Deuteronomy 6:8, “and shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.”

Deuteronomy 11:18, “And you shall lay up these Words of Mine in your heart and in your being, and shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.”

Spirit or letter? The Spirit says one thing The letter can be twisted continually

This is how Judaisim keeps the “letter” of the Law and not the Spirit:



Rather than have the Law in their heart they followed a liter letter for letter application

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes"

Spiritually binding them to youe hand would be to do them in action

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Spiritually as a frontlet between your eyes would be keeping them in your mind....[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 11:18, “And you shall lay up these Words of Mine in your heart and in your being, and shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 10:16, “And you shall circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and harden your neck no more.”[/FONT]


Romans 7 -7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.
12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.
13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin*.

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it his not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."

 

[SovereignGrace]

Anybody who says there is nothing you can do, say, or think, or believe that can forfeit your salvation is saying grace is a license to sin.

That's a flat out lie. Repent.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I laughed to myself the day you brought this passage up because it is exactly what I was thinking in my mind about you folks who make grace a license to sin. If you read the passage honestly and carefully he's condemning them for having that attitude from his teaching.

Oh, and now go look up the definition of derogatory and then tell me you did not mean to use 'ilk' that way.

Another lie, phart. Repent.

 

[gb9]

Here is an example of the Letter v the Spirit for those who have no clue what Israel did 2,000 years ago and still do;

Deuteronomy 5:22, “These Words יהוה spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a loud voice, and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.”

Deuteronomy 6:8, “and shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.”

Deuteronomy 11:18, “And you shall lay up these Words of Mine in your heart and in your being, and shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.”

Spirit or letter? The Spirit says one thing The letter can be twisted continually

This is how Judaisim keeps the “letter” of the Law and not the Spirit:

View attachment 175578

Rather than have the Law in their heart they followed a liter letter for letter application

"bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes"

Spiritually binding them to youe hand would be to do them in action

Spiritually as a frontlet between your eyes would be keeping them in your mind....

Deuteronomy 11:18, “And you shall lay up these Words of Mine in your heart and in your being, and shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.”


Deuteronomy 10:16, “And you shall circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and harden your neck no more.”


Romans 7 -7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.
12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.
13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin*.

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it his not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."

I have a clue about this- when one only posts certain verses, and tries to falsely explain away others, when we all KNOW the Bible does not contradict, no matter how you try to say it, we are no longer under the law, and gentiles never were.

 

[Hizikyah]

I have a clue about this- when one only posts certain verses, and tries to falsely explain away others, when we all KNOW the Bible does not contradict, no matter how you try to say it, we are no longer under the law, and gentiles never were.

beaing "under the Law" is a whole other study, and is not about if it should be followed or not...
So there are 2 difffernt ways? That ouwld make Yah an unfair judge, His judges in perfect righteousness.

Also I can prove this wrong without a doubt;

we are no longer under the law, and gentiles never were.

Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

gentiles never were.

Scripture says differnt.

 

[gb9]

beaing "under the Law" is a whole other study, and is not about if it should be followed or not...
So there are 2 difffernt ways? That ouwld make Yah an unfair judge, His judges in perfect righteousness.

Also I can prove this wrong without a doubt;



Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”




Scripture says differnt.

last time I checked, Acts 15 was scripture.

and, by the way , you know Romans was a letter , meant to read as such, not chopped into pieces and theology built around the pieces.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I did not know that. Will have to go back for that would be a gross violation for a mod to remove something and a member repost it.

Please don't go back and click on the links. You will be sorry you did. Despicable language.

 

[Hizikyah]

last time I checked, Acts 15 was scripture.

and, by the way , you know Romans was a letter , meant to read as such, not chopped into pieces and theology built around the pieces.

SO do the Acts 15 commands still apply? and is that the complete set of Instructions? or was that the requirements to enter a congregation?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 15:20, "but that we write to them to abstain from the defilements of idols, and from whoring, and from what is strangled, and from blood.

So is it required to abstain from food with blood in it? or is that anothr thing to ignore? Honestly [/FONT]SO do the Acts 15 commands still apply? and is that the complete set of Instructions? or was that the requirements to enter a congregation?

 

[PHart]

Whatever is not of trust is sin. I have struggled with mistrust in areas. He didn't drop me- He brought me through the struggle of mistrust.

PSH! Now I have to wait for your answer??

The believing we're talking about here is your trust in the blood of Christ for justification, not your trust in God for daily provision within your saving relationship with God. Can you see the difference?

The believing that you can not lose and still be saved is your trust in the blood of Christ to forgive your sin. If you stop that believing and return to the world in unbelief of Christ's sacrifice you no longer have any sacrifice remaining to forgive your sin from that point onward. You have nothing to look forward to but the wrath of God for his enemies at the final Judgment. Since you don't believe in Christ's blood anymore to forgive you you don't have that blood to keep you blameless until the last day.

 

[PeterJens]

I am not saying it is impossible to live by the Word. I am saying that according to the definition of sin contained in the Word, no one is sinless. not you, not me, not anyone.

you can claim you don't sin all you want, but it is not true. by the definition of sin that the Bible lays out.

This is like saying the obvious. We are sinners who have been redeemed.
As I have repeated it appears you do not believe we are redeemed to walk
in righteousness and purity. I do.

Like riding a bike, our goal is not to crash. Yours appears to never ride so
you never get anywhere.

 

[PeterJens]

That's a flat out lie. Repent.

I like this, a comedian. What is lying and to whom?

The earth is flat. Repent you sinner, not wake up you sleepy guy.

I remember being told to repent but not about what.
The bigger joke, was they did not believe in repentance only faith, so they
were actually not saying what they meant, or they were lying. Ironic or what.

 

[PHart]

Indeed for what child of God shall wake up wondering to himself "does my lord exist"?
"Do I trust him with my life"?

The child of God who gets tested by various trials and temptations in their own Garden of Gethsemane.

 

[joefizz]

The child of God who gets tested by various trials and temptations in their own Garden of Gethsemane.

Nay he shall remember his lord all the much more in such times and praise his name for suffering for his lord's name sake if he serve him faithfully.

 

[preacher4truth]

The child of God who gets tested by various trials and temptations in their own Garden of Gethsemane.

No believer has ever had "their own" Garden of Gethsemane. Show some respect for the Gospel for once, no human will ever come close to that experience.

 

[SovereignGrace]

No believer has ever had "their own" Garden of Gethsemane. Show some respect for the Gospel for once, no human will ever come close to that experience.

You're asking a lot from phart...you know this, right?

 

[dcontroversal]

On the last day, many will also hear these words..."Depart from me ye workers of iniquity".

Do you think the false prophets will be exhorting men to always obey God?
Or do you think they will be advocating doctrine that tolerates sin?

They are told to depart because they were never saved to begin with and trusted into their works instead of JESUS.

 

[dcontroversal]

and you think you don't sin. too bad.

John was clear....Deceived and No truth <----all who say they have NO SIN........

 

[preacher4truth]

You're asking a lot from phart...you know this, right?

It is his perpetual pointing to an exalting man whilst making the things of Christ common. Now it's the Garden of Gethsemane experience.