Please show me John the Baptist pointing out the false doctrine of the mainstream teachers. That is what you claimed. You have failed to do so, and in your inability to back what you say, make false accusations against me, while rationalizing your adding to Scripture, and claiming you are sinless. Is that what sinless looks like? I did not ask for the rebukes Jesus gave the Pharisees and scribes and Sadducees. That is simply you dodging the question and trying to avoid admitting you were wrong. There are no such verses in Scripture.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I'll respond with Paul's words..."[FONT="]What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?[/FONT][FONT="]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" (Rom 6: 1-3)
If you read a few more verses you will see where/when the "body has changed".[/FONT]
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" (Rom 6: 1-3)
If you read a few more verses you will see where/when the "body has changed".[/FONT]
Hi gb9, I agree with your points above and the misuse of scripture to play their petty little games is a huge sin. Decon say's, "such is the way and modus operandi of all workers for, "sinless perfectionists", and all who sell Jesus out in favor of a, "cafe blend false dogma."
They disrupt and derail threads and cause confusion among the poster's and are having a grand old time doing it. Some young believers may follow their corrupted beliefs and they will both fall into a pit. All of their disputes about bible verses are bate on a hook to draw "anyone" into their dead end arguments. You lose they win every time, its a game of wits.
Originally Posted by Studyman
Your scorn is miss-placed, TT. "I welcome it of course,", but might we both be better served in addressing the actual scriptures, "all of them."
"I'm game if you are."
They disrupt and derail threads and cause confusion among the poster's and are having a grand old time doing it. Some young believers may follow their corrupted beliefs and they will both fall into a pit. All of their disputes about bible verses are bate on a hook to draw "anyone" into their dead end arguments. You lose they win every time, its a game of wits.
Your scorn is miss-placed, TT. "I welcome it of course,", but might we both be better served in addressing the actual scriptures, "all of them."
"I'm game if you are."
Perhaps you would reconsider, and write back that you consider any defense of sin is the "corrupt belief"?
Is that a YES or a NO?
Ephesians 4:29-32 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
Ephesians 4:29-32 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
You judge another brother by saying that you supply of living in accordance to God and if they don’t agree with you,
then you say “You are free to continue serving sin”
Then you say “I forgive you for your aspersions and that sin was covered by my love for you”
O dear o dear o dear.
I suppose I could say the same to you when you told me that God would not listen to me unless I stopped sinning
Ok my brother you made me feel like a piece of crap today because I admit that I do sin and when I come before God he won’t listen to me becuase I am serving sin. I asked you that question and I can’t see a response to that. But I forgive you because my sin is covered by my love for you even though you place a heavy burden on people, just like the Pharisees”
Get off your rocking horse, get your head out of your backside and walk with people who struggle and help them rather than condemning them.
Please forgiven my aspersions.
To be honest you don’t care if you don’t.
But you have upset me and I am sure many others here who acknowledge they sin and come before Jesus but according to you he isn’t listening.
I will stop here before I go beyond.
then you say “You are free to continue serving sin”
Then you say “I forgive you for your aspersions and that sin was covered by my love for you”
O dear o dear o dear.
I suppose I could say the same to you when you told me that God would not listen to me unless I stopped sinning
Ok my brother you made me feel like a piece of crap today because I admit that I do sin and when I come before God he won’t listen to me becuase I am serving sin. I asked you that question and I can’t see a response to that. But I forgive you because my sin is covered by my love for you even though you place a heavy burden on people, just like the Pharisees”
Get off your rocking horse, get your head out of your backside and walk with people who struggle and help them rather than condemning them.
Please forgiven my aspersions.
To be honest you don’t care if you don’t.
But you have upset me and I am sure many others here who acknowledge they sin and come before Jesus but according to you he isn’t listening.
I will stop here before I go beyond.
Last edited:
Blessings to you, Studyman...
BUT...If ALL our sins have been "cleansed", why would sin still be "in us"?
If we continue to walk "in the light", (which is God, v. 5), we won't commit any sin.
I sometimes wish verse 9 were ahead of verse 7.
Our confession is done before we start our walk in God-light.
It is actually "step one", and then the walk proceeds from there.
I was (nearly) worse than Paul, before my conversion.
But I am now "converted": from a servant of sin to a servant of God.
You can't serve two masters.
BUT...If ALL our sins have been "cleansed", why would sin still be "in us"?
If we continue to walk "in the light", (which is God, v. 5), we won't commit any sin.
I sometimes wish verse 9 were ahead of verse 7.
Our confession is done before we start our walk in God-light.
It is actually "step one", and then the walk proceeds from there.
I was (nearly) worse than Paul, before my conversion.
But I am now "converted": from a servant of sin to a servant of God.
You can't serve two masters.
Obedince to God is not a corrupt belief.
But obedience to God is hard and it’s a walk.
Maybe not for those who consider themselves sinless and no longer committ sin.
The type who look down on others and condemn them to hell.
Similar to the religious sect that Jesus came against.
The same Jesus who died and rose again to go back to the Father so the Holy Spirit would come to be our helper.
HELPER, to tell us because of faith in Jesus we are saved and also to remind us that when we get it wrong Jesus is now in heaven as our advocate.
But obedience to God is hard and it’s a walk.
Maybe not for those who consider themselves sinless and no longer committ sin.
The type who look down on others and condemn them to hell.
Similar to the religious sect that Jesus came against.
The same Jesus who died and rose again to go back to the Father so the Holy Spirit would come to be our helper.
HELPER, to tell us because of faith in Jesus we are saved and also to remind us that when we get it wrong Jesus is now in heaven as our advocate.
My yardstick is Christ.
What yardstick do the servants of sin use?
I don't think that for a second, as the "I" you reference has been killed, buried, and raised with Christ as a new creature, gendered by God, who doesn't bear evil fruit.
He wouldn't have allowed you to see/hear this message if He didn't love you.
What yardstick do the servants of sin use?
I don't think that for a second, as the "I" you reference has been killed, buried, and raised with Christ as a new creature, gendered by God, who doesn't bear evil fruit.
He wouldn't have allowed you to see/hear this message if He didn't love you.
Psalm 31:18,20 Let their lying lips be silenced, for with pride and contempt they speak arrogantly against the righteous. In the shelter of your presence you hide them from the intrigues of men; in your dwelling you keep them safe from accusing tongues.
Psalm 59:12 For the sins of their mouths, for the words of their lips, let them be caught in their pride. For the curses and lies they utter,
Proverbs 8:13 To fear the Lord is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech.
Proverbs 11:2-3 When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom. The integrity of the upright guides them, but the unfaithful are destroyed by their duplicity.
Proverbs 13:10 pride only breeds quarrels, but wisdom is found in those who take advice.
Proverbs 16:18 pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.
Hebrews 4:12-13 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
John 12:46-50 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. “As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”
Psalm 59:12 For the sins of their mouths, for the words of their lips, let them be caught in their pride. For the curses and lies they utter,
Proverbs 8:13 To fear the Lord is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech.
Proverbs 11:2-3 When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom. The integrity of the upright guides them, but the unfaithful are destroyed by their duplicity.
Proverbs 13:10 pride only breeds quarrels, but wisdom is found in those who take advice.
Proverbs 16:18 pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.
Hebrews 4:12-13 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
John 12:46-50 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. “As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”
And if you think this this body is already perfect, then HE should let you KEEP IT JUST THE WAY IT IS, and NOT change or give you a new body.
1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (NKJV)
[SUP]51 [/SUP] Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
[SUP]52 [/SUP] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[SUP]53 [/SUP] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Like the saying goes, "YOU JUST MIGHT GET IT".
Jesus pretty much offended just about every religious person on the planet at one point or another. The scripture says what it says. If you haven't studied, how can you make a judgment on someone who has?
What is the difference between
Prov. 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
And
Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I hope you will honor me with an answer to this question.
Jesus said you and I must "pick up our cross" (flesh, experiences, who we are )and follow Him. There is no shortcut. That is why I want you to study on your own. To many people place their truth in man and good looking religious doctrines and traditions. I don't want that for anyone you included.
I could never speak of David the way you just did. I could never use him as an excuse to sin in any circumstance. God placed a burden on his shoulders at an age where we were still smoking pot and stealing candy bars. He lived in fear his whole life that would make us vomit just to see it. King David did nothing to make Proverbs void or any other scripture void. He paid for his actions in a way we will never have to face, for his whole life. You would do good to read and understand this law.
"Thou shall not look on the nakedness of your father or brother"
2 Sam. 12:13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.
If Jesus put his sin away, then there is no sin. Period!!!
Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
This was the worse part. God knew people would use David as an excuse to reject His Commandments for years and years to come.
And here we are all these years later, and even though it is written that he paid a huge price for his indiscretion, and even though it says the Lord took his indiscretion away, people are still using this deed to justify their own disobedience, doctrines and traditions, just like the Lord said they would.
No, you will never see me condemn or accuse Kind David of anything. As far as I'm concerned everything God placed on David was to teach me.
Sorry if I seem short. I understand the story of David and am very sensitive to it.
What is the difference between
Prov. 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
And
Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I hope you will honor me with an answer to this question.
Jesus said you and I must "pick up our cross" (flesh, experiences, who we are )and follow Him. There is no shortcut. That is why I want you to study on your own. To many people place their truth in man and good looking religious doctrines and traditions. I don't want that for anyone you included.
I could never speak of David the way you just did. I could never use him as an excuse to sin in any circumstance. God placed a burden on his shoulders at an age where we were still smoking pot and stealing candy bars. He lived in fear his whole life that would make us vomit just to see it. King David did nothing to make Proverbs void or any other scripture void. He paid for his actions in a way we will never have to face, for his whole life. You would do good to read and understand this law.
"Thou shall not look on the nakedness of your father or brother"
2 Sam. 12:13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.
If Jesus put his sin away, then there is no sin. Period!!!
Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
This was the worse part. God knew people would use David as an excuse to reject His Commandments for years and years to come.
And here we are all these years later, and even though it is written that he paid a huge price for his indiscretion, and even though it says the Lord took his indiscretion away, people are still using this deed to justify their own disobedience, doctrines and traditions, just like the Lord said they would.
No, you will never see me condemn or accuse Kind David of anything. As far as I'm concerned everything God placed on David was to teach me.
Sorry if I seem short. I understand the story of David and am very sensitive to it.
Yes Jesus did ask pick our cross, but it doesn’t just relate to crucifying the flesh. It also relates to would we be willing to die for him.
I never used Davis as an excuse to sin.
I merely pointed out that he did, yet God still loved him becuase when he realised he did sin he was on his knees before him.
Ans yes I totally agree with you in that what he saw in those days would be make me vomit as well.
Just as much as we see today the social pressure put on people to feel loved and accepted or do this to show that you love someone. It makes me vomit.
Have you ever questioned what the biggest cause of death today in the western culture is between the ages of 20 & 30 is?
Its suicide.
I seem to have offended you about what I have talked about David, that was not my intention but it’s an isssue for you.
I was trying to make the point that yes he sinned and got it wrong but God still loved him.
The same applies today.
I can’t imagine the horrors he went through, just like those who have served in wars over the last century.
There is no reason for disobedience full stop, but there is hope for us in our disobedience and that hope is in Jesus and him alone.
I never used Davis as an excuse to sin.
I merely pointed out that he did, yet God still loved him becuase when he realised he did sin he was on his knees before him.
Ans yes I totally agree with you in that what he saw in those days would be make me vomit as well.
Just as much as we see today the social pressure put on people to feel loved and accepted or do this to show that you love someone. It makes me vomit.
Have you ever questioned what the biggest cause of death today in the western culture is between the ages of 20 & 30 is?
Its suicide.
I seem to have offended you about what I have talked about David, that was not my intention but it’s an isssue for you.
I was trying to make the point that yes he sinned and got it wrong but God still loved him.
The same applies today.
I can’t imagine the horrors he went through, just like those who have served in wars over the last century.
There is no reason for disobedience full stop, but there is hope for us in our disobedience and that hope is in Jesus and him alone.
Last edited:
Our past sin's have been cleansed. But we have our part, "If we continue to walk "in the light". But if you are preaching that we don't still have sinful flesh to over come, then we are in disagreement. We have our "Cross" to bear until the end. Jesus cleanses us of repentant sin, He doesn't eliminate our sinful flesh until the end.
1 Cor. 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Ex. 23:30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.
Sure, we repent and follow God on His Commandments we can all see, creating images of God, Holy days, Adultery, Sabbaths, killing, etc.
These are the easy sin's we and everyone can see that are easy to overcome
But the hidden enemies, the sins we hide from, these are the ones God has to drive out from our mind. By tests and temptation and chastening.
Rom. 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin (death)which is in my members.
Sin is always present in this life, we just don't let it rule our actions, works, fruits, thoughts.
1 Cor. 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Ex. 23:30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.
Sure, we repent and follow God on His Commandments we can all see, creating images of God, Holy days, Adultery, Sabbaths, killing, etc.
These are the easy sin's we and everyone can see that are easy to overcome
But the hidden enemies, the sins we hide from, these are the ones God has to drive out from our mind. By tests and temptation and chastening.
Rom. 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin (death)which is in my members.
Sin is always present in this life, we just don't let it rule our actions, works, fruits, thoughts.