Not By Works
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Obviously you have used the scriptures to defend your doctrine and I appreciate it and Amen to those verses. Maybe you can also show me where I can read the verses that says "FAITH ALONE SAVES VOID OF WORKS and ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED."
Our Lord Jesus instructed the rich young man to obey the commandments, does that also make Him a works salvationist the same way you call those who are obedient, good and faithful servants of God?
Matthew 19:16-26 The Rich Young Man Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
The Apostles and His disciples when they received the Holy Spirit sold their possessions and shared everything they have to the bretheren as an act of obedience to God as they were lead by the Spirit. Do we now nullify the law by this faith?(rom 3:31)
New International Version 1984 Acts 4:32-37 The Believers Share Their Possessions All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need. Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means Son of Encouragement), sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles’ feet.
Acts 5:1-11 Ananias and Sapphira Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet. Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God.”
Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Matthew 25:21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’
Matthew 25:37-46 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? when did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? when did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Malachi 2:17 You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”
Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
Romans 8:7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERYONE A LIAR. TO GOD BE ALL THE GLORY!
Our Lord Jesus instructed the rich young man to obey the commandments, does that also make Him a works salvationist the same way you call those who are obedient, good and faithful servants of God?
Matthew 19:16-26 The Rich Young Man Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
The Apostles and His disciples when they received the Holy Spirit sold their possessions and shared everything they have to the bretheren as an act of obedience to God as they were lead by the Spirit. Do we now nullify the law by this faith?(rom 3:31)
New International Version 1984 Acts 4:32-37 The Believers Share Their Possessions All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need. Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means Son of Encouragement), sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles’ feet.
Acts 5:1-11 Ananias and Sapphira Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet. Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God.”
Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Matthew 25:21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’
Matthew 25:37-46 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? when did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? when did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Malachi 2:17 You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”
Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
Romans 8:7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERYONE A LIAR. TO GOD BE ALL THE GLORY!
P
You're making a very big error here. The difference between believing unto salvation and believing that can not save (like the believing demons have) is not that one is a belief of God from the heart while the other is a belief of God from the intellect. The difference is true saving belief trusts in what it knows in the mind to be true about God. Demons don't trust in God even though they know all about Christ and the gospel, better than you or I even. That's the difference:
So it isn't about intellectual faith vs. heartfelt/emotional faith. The difference is, the faith that can not save is the faith that does not trust in what it knows to be true about God while true saving faith does. Lots of people know about the gospel and know that it is true, but they, like the demons, don't trust in it. Instead they take a false comfort in simply having knowledge about the gospel, and they think that knowledge alone will save them. They do not know that it is trusting in what you know to be true about the gospel, and continuing to trust in it, is what saves. That is certainly not a works gospel, lol, as is being claimed here. It is in fact THE gospel.
How do we know we are believing unto salvation? By the evidence of the Holy Spirit in our lives, expressed in the fruit of the Spirit. That fruit does not save. It confirms the presence of the Holy Spirit in a continuing trust in the gospel to save and will be used as the evidence of our faith at the Resurrection. The mark of the Holy Spirit follows those who believe, and continue to believe in Christ for the forgiveness of sins. If you do not have that mark at the Resurrection because you never really trusted in the gospel, or you stopped trusting in it, you will be condemned, not saved.
23Just then there was a man in their synagogue with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, 24saying, “What business do we have with each other, Jesus of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!” (Mark 1:23-24 NASB)
So it isn't about intellectual faith vs. heartfelt/emotional faith. The difference is, the faith that can not save is the faith that does not trust in what it knows to be true about God while true saving faith does. Lots of people know about the gospel and know that it is true, but they, like the demons, don't trust in it. Instead they take a false comfort in simply having knowledge about the gospel, and they think that knowledge alone will save them. They do not know that it is trusting in what you know to be true about the gospel, and continuing to trust in it, is what saves. That is certainly not a works gospel, lol, as is being claimed here. It is in fact THE gospel.
How do we know we are believing unto salvation? By the evidence of the Holy Spirit in our lives, expressed in the fruit of the Spirit. That fruit does not save. It confirms the presence of the Holy Spirit in a continuing trust in the gospel to save and will be used as the evidence of our faith at the Resurrection. The mark of the Holy Spirit follows those who believe, and continue to believe in Christ for the forgiveness of sins. If you do not have that mark at the Resurrection because you never really trusted in the gospel, or you stopped trusting in it, you will be condemned, not saved.
"...put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations which are being committed in its midst (Jerusalem).” 5But to the others He said in my hearing, “Go through the city after him and strike; do not let your eye have pity and do not spare. 6“Utterly slay old men, young men, maidens, little children, and women, but do not touch any man on whom is the mark; and you shall start from My sanctuary.” (Ezekiel 9:4-6 NASB)
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The demon don't do the will of the Most High... they reject it.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 6:27, John 6:27, “Do not labor for the food that is perishing, but for the food that is remaining to everlasting life, which the Son of Aḏam shall give you, for the Father, Yah, has set His seal on Him.” [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 6:27, John 6:27, “Do not labor for the food that is perishing, but for the food that is remaining to everlasting life, which the Son of Aḏam shall give you, for the Father, Yah, has set His seal on Him.” [/FONT]
Counterfiet faith is claim faith and not doing;
Mat 15:7-9, "Hypocrites! Well did Isayah (29:13-14)* prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."
James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."
James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"
Mat 15:7-9, "Hypocrites! Well did Isayah (29:13-14)* prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."
James 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."
James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day
In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation.
In other words, they DO NOT BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan (they do his will instead of God's will), as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
What is this food? John 6:54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 "For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. Of course, Jesus was not talking about "literally" eating His flesh and "literally" drinking His blood, as taught in Roman Catholicism, the false doctrine of transubstantiation. As He was accustomed, Jesus used figurative language to emphasize these great spiritual truths. Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage when He says, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63)
"He who believes" in Christ is equivalent to "he who eats this bread" because the result is the same, eternal life.
"Everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day" (verse 40).
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life" (verse 47).
"Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day" (verse 54).
"He who eats this bread will live forever" (verse 58).
With that being said, the people who Jesus had just explained to labor for the food which does not perish in (John 6:27), then asked Him in verse 28, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? They missed the point that eternal life is Christ's free gift received through faith and they were thinking in terms of obtaining it by works. But Jesus answers: "The work of God is that you BELIEVE IN HIM whom He sent" (John 6:29).
So to labor for the food which endures to eternal life involves a great struggle against conflict between obtaining salvation by works and obtaining salvation through believing in Him.
In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation.
In other words, they DO NOT BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan (they do his will instead of God's will), as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
What is this food? John 6:54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 "For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. Of course, Jesus was not talking about "literally" eating His flesh and "literally" drinking His blood, as taught in Roman Catholicism, the false doctrine of transubstantiation. As He was accustomed, Jesus used figurative language to emphasize these great spiritual truths. Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage when He says, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63)
"He who believes" in Christ is equivalent to "he who eats this bread" because the result is the same, eternal life.
"Everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day" (verse 40).
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life" (verse 47).
"Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day" (verse 54).
"He who eats this bread will live forever" (verse 58).
With that being said, the people who Jesus had just explained to labor for the food which does not perish in (John 6:27), then asked Him in verse 28, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? They missed the point that eternal life is Christ's free gift received through faith and they were thinking in terms of obtaining it by works. But Jesus answers: "The work of God is that you BELIEVE IN HIM whom He sent" (John 6:29).
So to labor for the food which endures to eternal life involves a great struggle against conflict between obtaining salvation by works and obtaining salvation through believing in Him.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Rom 11:16-31, “Now if the first-fruit is set-apart, the lump is also. And if the root is set-apart, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, have been grafted in among them, and came to share the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. And if you boast, remember: you do not bear the root, but the root bears you! You shall say then, “The branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” Good! By unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by belief. Do not be arrogant, but fear. For if Yah did not spare the natural branches, He might not spare you either. See then the kindness and sharpness of Yah: on those who fell sharpness, but toward you kindness, if you continue in His kindness, otherwise you also shall be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, shall be grafted in, for Yah is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more shall these who are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I do not wish you to be ignorant of this secret, brothers, lest you should be wise in your own estimation, that hardening in part has come over Yisra’ĕl, until the completeness of the gentiles has come in. And so all Yisra’ĕl shall be saved, as it has been written, “The Deliverer shall come out of Tsiyon, and He shall turn away wickedness from Ya‛aqoḇ, and this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins. Truly, as regards the Good News they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of Yah are not to be repented of. For as you also at one time disobeyed Yah, but now have obtained compassion through their disobedience, so also these have now disobeyed, that through the compassion shown you they also might obtain compassion.”[/FONT]
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Rom 11:16-31, “Now if the first-fruit is set-apart, the lump is also. And if the root is set-apart, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, have been grafted in among them, and came to share the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. And if you boast, remember: you do not bear the root, but the root bears you! You shall say then, “The branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” Good! By unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by belief. Do not be arrogant, but fear. For if Yah did not spare the natural branches, He might not spare you either. See then the kindness and sharpness of Yah: on those who fell sharpness, but toward you kindness, if you continue in His kindness, otherwise you also shall be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, shall be grafted in, for Yah is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more shall these who are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I do not wish you to be ignorant of this secret, brothers, lest you should be wise in your own estimation, that hardening in part has come over Yisra’ĕl, until the completeness of the gentiles has come in. And so all Yisra’ĕl shall be saved, as it has been written, “The Deliverer shall come out of Tsiyon, and He shall turn away wickedness from Ya‛aqoḇ, and this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins. Truly, as regards the Good News they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of Yah are not to be repented of. For as you also at one time disobeyed Yah, but now have obtained compassion through their disobedience, so also these have now disobeyed, that through the compassion shown you they also might obtain compassion.”[/FONT]
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Something even deeper than that. We prove the Holy Spirit never was in us, therefore we NEVER were Born Again.
Let me over simplify what I have been saying. Most of us are familiar with the parable of the sower, also based on what Isaiah said.
Basis for the Parable of the Sower:
Isaiah 55:9-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] “For as heaven is higher than earth, so My ways are higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For just as rain and snow fall from heaven and do not return there without saturating the earth and making it germinate and sprout, and providing seed to sow and food to eat,
[SUP]11 [/SUP] so My word that comes from My mouth will not return to Me empty, but it will accomplish what I please and will prosper in what I send it ⌊to do⌋.”
Parable of the Sower:
Matthew 13:3-9 (ESV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And he told them many things in parables, saying: “A sower went out to sow.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] He who has ears, let him hear.”
Parable of the Sower Explained:
Matthew 13:18-23 (ESV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] “Hear then the parable of the sower:
[SUP]19 [/SUP] When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”
Parable of the Weeds (TARES):
They look almost identical to wheat in their early stages of growth.
Matthew 13:24-30 (ESV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field,
[SUP]25 [/SUP] but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and went away.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’
[SUP]28 [/SUP] He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”
Clearly the WORD of GOD is the SEED being Planted.
The Sower is the Holy Spirit, who prepares the soil of the heart of man, and plants the seed, as HE ENTERS to indwell and nurture the seed.
The Holy Spirit WATERS that SEED with GOD's LOVE poured into our hearts, Rom. 5:5.
Faith is what sprouts out of that seed planted in the human heart, NOT OUR BRAIN. That tiniest sprout is when SALVATION happens. Remember "the faith of a child" or "the single grain of mustard seed".
ONLY the heart of man (human spirit) made of good soil will produce a harvest of much Faith.
Growing that Faith is a work of the HOLY SPIRIT in our Hearts, and few give HIM credit for it.
So do the other SOILS represent those who lost their Faith? NO, they are TARES (WEEDS) the enemy sowed in the Wheat Field, and NOTHING ABOUT THEM ever was Wheat, other than outward looks.
Where do our works come in? They have NOTHING to do with SALVATION, but when those works are motivated by GOD's LOVE in us, PURE LOVE for Jesus Christ and God the Father producing that obedience, THEY CAN BE TOOLS THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL USE TO MATURE OUR LOVE AND FAITH.
Sounds too simple? That is the way GOD MADE IT, TRUST HIM TO DO IT ALL. Remember IF YOU ARE A TRUE CHRISTIAN, you have the Holy Spirit in you constantly working to grow your FAITH. GIVE HIM THE CREDIT AND GLORY, and HE WILL GIVE YOU MORE. If you choose to do it yourself, you just may find, you are really ALL ALONE.
Let me over simplify what I have been saying. Most of us are familiar with the parable of the sower, also based on what Isaiah said.
Basis for the Parable of the Sower:
Isaiah 55:9-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] “For as heaven is higher than earth, so My ways are higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For just as rain and snow fall from heaven and do not return there without saturating the earth and making it germinate and sprout, and providing seed to sow and food to eat,
[SUP]11 [/SUP] so My word that comes from My mouth will not return to Me empty, but it will accomplish what I please and will prosper in what I send it ⌊to do⌋.”
Parable of the Sower:
Matthew 13:3-9 (ESV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And he told them many things in parables, saying: “A sower went out to sow.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] He who has ears, let him hear.”
Parable of the Sower Explained:
Matthew 13:18-23 (ESV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] “Hear then the parable of the sower:
[SUP]19 [/SUP] When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”
Parable of the Weeds (TARES):
They look almost identical to wheat in their early stages of growth.
Matthew 13:24-30 (ESV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field,
[SUP]25 [/SUP] but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and went away.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’
[SUP]28 [/SUP] He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”
Clearly the WORD of GOD is the SEED being Planted.
The Sower is the Holy Spirit, who prepares the soil of the heart of man, and plants the seed, as HE ENTERS to indwell and nurture the seed.
The Holy Spirit WATERS that SEED with GOD's LOVE poured into our hearts, Rom. 5:5.
Faith is what sprouts out of that seed planted in the human heart, NOT OUR BRAIN. That tiniest sprout is when SALVATION happens. Remember "the faith of a child" or "the single grain of mustard seed".
ONLY the heart of man (human spirit) made of good soil will produce a harvest of much Faith.
Growing that Faith is a work of the HOLY SPIRIT in our Hearts, and few give HIM credit for it.
So do the other SOILS represent those who lost their Faith? NO, they are TARES (WEEDS) the enemy sowed in the Wheat Field, and NOTHING ABOUT THEM ever was Wheat, other than outward looks.
Where do our works come in? They have NOTHING to do with SALVATION, but when those works are motivated by GOD's LOVE in us, PURE LOVE for Jesus Christ and God the Father producing that obedience, THEY CAN BE TOOLS THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL USE TO MATURE OUR LOVE AND FAITH.
Sounds too simple? That is the way GOD MADE IT, TRUST HIM TO DO IT ALL. Remember IF YOU ARE A TRUE CHRISTIAN, you have the Holy Spirit in you constantly working to grow your FAITH. GIVE HIM THE CREDIT AND GLORY, and HE WILL GIVE YOU MORE. If you choose to do it yourself, you just may find, you are really ALL ALONE.
QUOTE: Dr. John MacArthur, Jr., "A Christians is not sinless, but as he or she matures spiritually, they will SIN LESS, AND LESS, AND LESS.
Spiritual Maturity is NOT instantaneous, it is a life long growing process.
2 Peter 1:3-8 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] His divine power has given us everything required for life and godliness through the knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] By these He has given us very great and precious promises, so that through them you may share in the divine nature, escaping the corruption that is in the world because of evil desires.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with goodness, goodness with knowledge,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowledge with self-control, self-control with endurance, endurance with godliness,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they will keep you from being useless or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
NOW I WILL GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO MEDITATE ON, and to start working on:
Romans 14:23 (ASV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But he that doubteth is condemned if he eat,
because he eateth not of faith;
and whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Spiritual Maturity is NOT instantaneous, it is a life long growing process.
2 Peter 1:3-8 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] His divine power has given us everything required for life and godliness through the knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] By these He has given us very great and precious promises, so that through them you may share in the divine nature, escaping the corruption that is in the world because of evil desires.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with goodness, goodness with knowledge,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowledge with self-control, self-control with endurance, endurance with godliness,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they will keep you from being useless or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
NOW I WILL GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO MEDITATE ON, and to start working on:
Romans 14:23 (ASV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But he that doubteth is condemned if he eat,
because he eateth not of faith;
and whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
P
Or that we quit believing somewhere along the line and went back to the world in unbelief, i.e. second type of soil in the Parable of the Sower.
You can't give credit to God for something that isn't happening in your life in the first place because you're resisting Him in a quenching of the Spirit. Let's get the church to stop quenching the Spirit first, then we'll talk about where credit lies, lol.
They have nothing to do in securing justification. Not a single person in this thread, that I know of, has said otherwise. Where works do have 'something' to do with salvation is on the Day of Judgment. Christ will be measuring the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works by what that faith did in this lifetime. If he finds nothing, off to the lake of fire you go.
Nobody here is taking the credit for the work of the Holy Spirit. The frontlet of your indoctrination makes you hear it that way. Seriously.
Maybe, but if you really are a believer in Christ (present tense) what you will find if you choose to go it alone is you will most likely fail. That is how the believer learns to walk in the Spirit--through experience. He learns to depend on the Holy Spirit to be his strength when temptation comes.
You can't give credit to God for something that isn't happening in your life in the first place because you're resisting Him in a quenching of the Spirit. Let's get the church to stop quenching the Spirit first, then we'll talk about where credit lies, lol.
They have nothing to do in securing justification. Not a single person in this thread, that I know of, has said otherwise. Where works do have 'something' to do with salvation is on the Day of Judgment. Christ will be measuring the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works by what that faith did in this lifetime. If he finds nothing, off to the lake of fire you go.
Nobody here is taking the credit for the work of the Holy Spirit. The frontlet of your indoctrination makes you hear it that way. Seriously.
Maybe, but if you really are a believer in Christ (present tense) what you will find if you choose to go it alone is you will most likely fail. That is how the believer learns to walk in the Spirit--through experience. He learns to depend on the Holy Spirit to be his strength when temptation comes.
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mailmandan;3315360]John 6:40 -
And what was there demonstration? In other words, how do we know they were "Rebellious"? Yes, they believe in Jesus, but by their works the deny Him.
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
This is what you are saying, Yes? And if so, I agree. They didn't stay in the state in which they were created, they "Rebelled" AGAINST God and were ejected from heaven forever.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
2 Pet. 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned,(Transgressed His Commandments) but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
There is a definite disconnect between what the Bible teaches about "Works" and what you seem to believe about them, no offence intended. For instance, I truly believe that the Grace of God is there for all men and there is nothing I can do or did do to make that happen or to change that. I did nothing to create Grace, if I am blessed with Grace, it is not because of "My Work" or anything I have done. But not everyone is "Saved" by this Grace as the scripture warns.
As the warnings above clearly indicate, there is more to Salvation than Passover (Grace).
Paul speaks about another part of God's Salvation plan called His Holy Days, or His Feasts as He calls them.
1 Cor. 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
After Passover (Grace) there is another Feast called the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Repentance)
This part of God's Salvation plan calls for a change of heart after Grace has come. Leavening represents rebellion against God's Commandments(sin, iniquity) that cost Sodom their lives, and caused the Angels to loose their place, and caused God to destroy the old world with a flood.
This is why Jesus warned to "Take Heed" that we are not deceived by the "MANY" who come in His name. This is why Jude warned:
Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt,
These were saved by Grace (Passover) just like you and I but what happened to them?
afterward destroyed them that believed not.
And how did they show their "Disbelief"?, by rebelling against the Word of God as did satan and it's angels, by "Transgressing the Commandments of God by their own man made doctrines", creating their own version of God with their own Sabbaths as did the Mainstream God of Abraham preaching congregation of Christ's time. By creating their own High Days, and "Feasts of the Lord" as did the Children of Israel (1 Cor. 10:7)
There are a few on this forum who understand this and are simply trying to follow the example of Jesus and His Apostles and Prophets of old, and remind you of these things as did His Apostles.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
And we have just shown that their unbelief was shown by their "Works" of disobedience. (1 Cor. 10)
In closing the Bible says to "Walk even as Jesus walked". To drink His Blood (Blood means life) Are we not to consume His Life, not some religion or doctrine of man?
To eat His Flesh, are we not to consume HIS walk, the "Works" of His hands?
Was Jesus guilty of Transgressing the Commandments of God by man made doctrines and traditions? Did He teach for Doctrines the Commandments of men? Did He create His own images of His God in the likeness of some handsome hair shampoo male model? Did He create His own "Feasts unto the Lord?
So yes, we should walk even as He walked, drink HIS life, consume HIS flesh.
And what are we to do if we encounter a huge "MANY" who come in His Name, who preach that they "Believe" Jesus is truly the Messiah, the Son of God, but reject much of His Word and walk contrary to many of his Commandments, who create their own Sabbaths, their own High Days, who create their own images of God in the likeness of man.
Shall we keep silent? Or shall we Love them as Christ loved us by putting them in remembrance of these things.
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
This is what you are saying, Yes? And if so, I agree. They didn't stay in the state in which they were created, they "Rebelled" AGAINST God and were ejected from heaven forever.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
2 Pet. 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned,(Transgressed His Commandments) but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
There is a definite disconnect between what the Bible teaches about "Works" and what you seem to believe about them, no offence intended. For instance, I truly believe that the Grace of God is there for all men and there is nothing I can do or did do to make that happen or to change that. I did nothing to create Grace, if I am blessed with Grace, it is not because of "My Work" or anything I have done. But not everyone is "Saved" by this Grace as the scripture warns.
As the warnings above clearly indicate, there is more to Salvation than Passover (Grace).
Paul speaks about another part of God's Salvation plan called His Holy Days, or His Feasts as He calls them.
1 Cor. 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
After Passover (Grace) there is another Feast called the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Repentance)
This part of God's Salvation plan calls for a change of heart after Grace has come. Leavening represents rebellion against God's Commandments(sin, iniquity) that cost Sodom their lives, and caused the Angels to loose their place, and caused God to destroy the old world with a flood.
This is why Jesus warned to "Take Heed" that we are not deceived by the "MANY" who come in His name. This is why Jude warned:
Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt,
These were saved by Grace (Passover) just like you and I but what happened to them?
afterward destroyed them that believed not.
And how did they show their "Disbelief"?, by rebelling against the Word of God as did satan and it's angels, by "Transgressing the Commandments of God by their own man made doctrines", creating their own version of God with their own Sabbaths as did the Mainstream God of Abraham preaching congregation of Christ's time. By creating their own High Days, and "Feasts of the Lord" as did the Children of Israel (1 Cor. 10:7)
There are a few on this forum who understand this and are simply trying to follow the example of Jesus and His Apostles and Prophets of old, and remind you of these things as did His Apostles.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
And we have just shown that their unbelief was shown by their "Works" of disobedience. (1 Cor. 10)
In closing the Bible says to "Walk even as Jesus walked". To drink His Blood (Blood means life) Are we not to consume His Life, not some religion or doctrine of man?
To eat His Flesh, are we not to consume HIS walk, the "Works" of His hands?
Was Jesus guilty of Transgressing the Commandments of God by man made doctrines and traditions? Did He teach for Doctrines the Commandments of men? Did He create His own images of His God in the likeness of some handsome hair shampoo male model? Did He create His own "Feasts unto the Lord?
So yes, we should walk even as He walked, drink HIS life, consume HIS flesh.
And what are we to do if we encounter a huge "MANY" who come in His Name, who preach that they "Believe" Jesus is truly the Messiah, the Son of God, but reject much of His Word and walk contrary to many of his Commandments, who create their own Sabbaths, their own High Days, who create their own images of God in the likeness of man.
Shall we keep silent? Or shall we Love them as Christ loved us by putting them in remembrance of these things.
You still do you get it, do you. Genuine Believing, is something the Holy Spirit is doing in your HEART, not something you are doing in your HEAD. That is why we do not think you are born again.
ONLY TRUE BELIEVERS are the GOOD SOIL.
The other types of SOIL are the Tares (Weeds) that only took on the appearance of WHEAT for a time. THEY ALWAYS WERE WEEDS THE WHOLE TIME.
1 John 2:19 (GWT)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They left us. However, they were never really part of us. If they had been, they would have stayed with us. But by leaving they made it clear that none of them were part of us.
You have no ability to tell the difference between True Christians (Wheat) and phony Christians (Tares) until they form their heads (Fruit). And even then, they look very similar. Here in Nebraska, we have a weed that we could classify a Tare, and it is called the Foxtail. Before they form the Heads, they look almost identical to young Wheat plants.
This is a young wheat field:
These are the weeds called Foxtails:
The two look almost identical until they form their heads, and even then they look very similar:
When Foxtail gets started in a Wheat Field, there is nothing you can do but wait for the harvest. The kernels of Wheat come out in the Combine, while most of the Foxtail heads go out with the chaff, because they are smaller lighter seeds.
AT NO POINT IN TIME WERE THE FOXTAIL PLANTS EVER WHEAT PLANTS EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE GROWING IN A WHEAT FIELD. ALL THREE OF THE OTHER SOILS ARE NOT PRODUCING WHEAT TO HARVEST. THOSE FOXTAILS DID NOT STOP BEING WHEAT, THEY NEVER WERE WHEAT.
No, it is you who does not know what it means. It means anything in your life that is not of faith, is sin. That would include bad theology. I know the discussion was about certain meats that some thought it was sin to eat. Whatsoever is a reference to anything. ANYTHING, means ANYTHING, in my BIBLE.
P
No, believing/trusting is what I am doing because of what God has placed in my heart. I believe because of God's supernatural power of revelation, what the Bible calls 'faith' (Hebrews 11:1). I can not boast in my trusting because it's only through God's gift of faith that I can even believe in the gospel to then trust in it.
A genuine trusting in God most certainly includes knowing the facts of salvation in your mind. In fact, Paul explains how it is with our hearing that we have the faith to then believe and be saved. Salvation means you're trusting God with heart, body, soul, and mind to be forgiven and delivered from the power of sin.
I'm not offended by this. I know that true believers are rarely understood by the world.
And just so you know, I suspect you're probably a very worldly Christian, watching 'Game of Thrones' or whatever other favorite salacious media viewing it is you do, or that you are overcome by some kind of substance addiction. So I guess we're even.
Soil #2 was a true believer before they rejected the word planted in them because of the trials and temptations and costs of the gospel. Soil #3 represents perhaps 90% of the church in America--saved and clinging to the hope of the gospel but overcome by the love of this world and the appetites of the flesh and thus do not mature. The sad part being, that unfruitfulness can develop into an unbelief and they will be destroyed on the Day of Judgment, not saved, all the while they think they are still saved. That is the danger of the Christian living in the world and as a result not maturing to the producing of the fruit of the Spirit. They'll stand before Christ at the Judgment expecting to be saved but to their horror they will be condemned to the lake of fire for being lawless. They lost the justification of Christ somewhere along the line and will be condemned by their sin, not saved from it through Christ as expected.
Well, sure. Certainly wheat does not become tares, lol, but they can die, and when they die they will be burned in the fire as the tares will be.
Don't leave out John's warning 5 verses later to those who do believe not to become lost like they are (1 John 2:24). That warning shows us it is possible for them to fall away and be lost, too. Context, VCO, context!
Are you saying an unbeliever (a tare) can never become a believer (wheat)? Interesting.
See what happens when you bend an analogy beyond what was intended by the analogy? Don't do that.
A genuine trusting in God most certainly includes knowing the facts of salvation in your mind. In fact, Paul explains how it is with our hearing that we have the faith to then believe and be saved. Salvation means you're trusting God with heart, body, soul, and mind to be forgiven and delivered from the power of sin.
I'm not offended by this. I know that true believers are rarely understood by the world.
And just so you know, I suspect you're probably a very worldly Christian, watching 'Game of Thrones' or whatever other favorite salacious media viewing it is you do, or that you are overcome by some kind of substance addiction. So I guess we're even.
Soil #2 was a true believer before they rejected the word planted in them because of the trials and temptations and costs of the gospel. Soil #3 represents perhaps 90% of the church in America--saved and clinging to the hope of the gospel but overcome by the love of this world and the appetites of the flesh and thus do not mature. The sad part being, that unfruitfulness can develop into an unbelief and they will be destroyed on the Day of Judgment, not saved, all the while they think they are still saved. That is the danger of the Christian living in the world and as a result not maturing to the producing of the fruit of the Spirit. They'll stand before Christ at the Judgment expecting to be saved but to their horror they will be condemned to the lake of fire for being lawless. They lost the justification of Christ somewhere along the line and will be condemned by their sin, not saved from it through Christ as expected.
Well, sure. Certainly wheat does not become tares, lol, but they can die, and when they die they will be burned in the fire as the tares will be.
Don't leave out John's warning 5 verses later to those who do believe not to become lost like they are (1 John 2:24). That warning shows us it is possible for them to fall away and be lost, too. Context, VCO, context!
Are you saying an unbeliever (a tare) can never become a believer (wheat)? Interesting.
See what happens when you bend an analogy beyond what was intended by the analogy? Don't do that.
I don't see anything wrong with your thoughts about trusting. I agree. But, also the Word says that when we aren't faithful, He remains for He cannot deny Himself.
Conversion is the new birth experience. We know that we know we have passed from death to life. I see that in your post.
My only objection to it is that when we have trials and our faith may falter for a time, we are still His and Holy Spirit works to keep us. We cannot keep ourself anymore than saving ourself.
But, to trust Him pleases Him. And our trust grows as we experience His faithfulness. I can't see how anyone truly born again can be lost, for all the promises are yes and amen. And faith is a seed that isn't of this world. He plants all these things when we are given His Spirit.
Conversion is the new birth experience. We know that we know we have passed from death to life. I see that in your post.
My only objection to it is that when we have trials and our faith may falter for a time, we are still His and Holy Spirit works to keep us. We cannot keep ourself anymore than saving ourself.
But, to trust Him pleases Him. And our trust grows as we experience His faithfulness. I can't see how anyone truly born again can be lost, for all the promises are yes and amen. And faith is a seed that isn't of this world. He plants all these things when we are given His Spirit.
1Jn 2:25 The message that the Son himself declared to us is eternal life.
1Jn 2:26 I have written to you about those who are trying to deceive you.
1Jn 2:27 The anointing you received from God abides in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you this. Instead, because God's anointing teaches you about everything and is true and not a lie, abide in him, as he taught you to do.
1Jn 2:26 I have written to you about those who are trying to deceive you.
1Jn 2:27 The anointing you received from God abides in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you this. Instead, because God's anointing teaches you about everything and is true and not a lie, abide in him, as he taught you to do.
P
Context, stones, context! You're ignoring an essential part of the passage:
OSAS always leaves out this essential part of the passage that defies the automatic conclusion of OSAS that once you believe and are saved you will always be in Christ and, therefore, saved. It's like a blindness.
"24As for you (in contrast to those who left--vs.19), let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father." (1 John 2:24 NASB)
OSAS always leaves out this essential part of the passage that defies the automatic conclusion of OSAS that once you believe and are saved you will always be in Christ and, therefore, saved. It's like a blindness.
P
Right, he cannot deny HIMSELF. But he has no obligation to not deny the person who is no longer abiding in him and has become disconnected from him and is not a part of HIMSELF because of unbelief.
Faltering faith, and an abandonment of faith are two entirely different things. You can struggle with doubt, and trouble, and trials, and the costs of following Christ and still be saved, but you can not abandon him in a conscious and willful unbelief and return to the world and still be saved. 'Taint gonna happen. You have to believe in Christ to have the benefit of Christ. Ex-believers no longer have the power of God in Christ to keep them saved (Hebrews 10:26).
That's why we rely on God THROUGH OUR BELIEVING to save and to keep us for the Day of Salvation that is coming. Your believing is the required conduit through which one appropriates that which saves and keeps us saved. Believing, in and of itself, has no power to save, no more than the taking of the pill the Dr. prescribed to heal you is where the power to heal lies. But that hardly makes it so you don't have to take the pill, lol. Nor does you taking pill make it so you are claiming to have healed yourself.
"...in Christ", not outside of Christ. You have to stay in Christ for the promises to be 'yes, and amen' in Christ (2 Corinthians 1:20).
I'm not going to fist-a-cuffs over whether a believer can stop believing, or not. The important thing is that every believer knows that it is through present tense believing that we are justified and continue to be justified. This has never been of more importance than in recent times because of the reemergence of H-grace into the church which says you can even stop believing and you are still saved. That is a joke. But of course we can not discuss that here. But for our purposes, it's important for the believer to know that they can neglect faith in Christ to the point of a conscious and willful (or even not so conscious) return to the world.
Yes, the word of faith is not of this world, but the soil it lands on IS.
Faltering faith, and an abandonment of faith are two entirely different things. You can struggle with doubt, and trouble, and trials, and the costs of following Christ and still be saved, but you can not abandon him in a conscious and willful unbelief and return to the world and still be saved. 'Taint gonna happen. You have to believe in Christ to have the benefit of Christ. Ex-believers no longer have the power of God in Christ to keep them saved (Hebrews 10:26).
That's why we rely on God THROUGH OUR BELIEVING to save and to keep us for the Day of Salvation that is coming. Your believing is the required conduit through which one appropriates that which saves and keeps us saved. Believing, in and of itself, has no power to save, no more than the taking of the pill the Dr. prescribed to heal you is where the power to heal lies. But that hardly makes it so you don't have to take the pill, lol. Nor does you taking pill make it so you are claiming to have healed yourself.
"...in Christ", not outside of Christ. You have to stay in Christ for the promises to be 'yes, and amen' in Christ (2 Corinthians 1:20).
I'm not going to fist-a-cuffs over whether a believer can stop believing, or not. The important thing is that every believer knows that it is through present tense believing that we are justified and continue to be justified. This has never been of more importance than in recent times because of the reemergence of H-grace into the church which says you can even stop believing and you are still saved. That is a joke. But of course we can not discuss that here. But for our purposes, it's important for the believer to know that they can neglect faith in Christ to the point of a conscious and willful (or even not so conscious) return to the world.
Yes, the word of faith is not of this world, but the soil it lands on IS.