Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Now it is your turn to show the room for the sake of truth where DC ever rejected Gods commands.

Exactly.....I fail to see how being deceptive helps his working for, sinless claim, cracker jack dogma....

 

[dcontroversal]

And by works was his faith made perfect.

Yeah right........not in the way your take it....

 

[dcontroversal]

I can't argue with that, But Paul taught the Gospel without the "Entire" Bible, He only had the Law and Prophets to learn and teach from.

.

False....He was reeducated and taught by direct revelation......his view of the LAW and PROPHETS had to be rightfully adjusted by JESUS.........

 

[dcontroversal]

PH said:
That's why we need to continue being saints through our continued trust in Christ,

Rom. 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Col. 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

1 Tim. 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

1 John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

Here are some verses that show PH made his statements, not from his own mind, but straight from the Word's of his Savior.

So his statement "That's why we need to continue being saints through our continued trust in Christ," is proven wise, accurate, and reflective of the teachings of Jesus and His Apostles from scripture.

But Your statement "The bolded is false and not found anywhere in scriptures" has, by the same Word of God, been proven false.

Will you apologize to him for your harsh and false judgments?

No....my stance was clear and biblical....his view false and contrary to the truth...NO ONE CONTINUES in order to be a SAINT.....if you believe that it proves that both of you have no idea what a saint is and or one of the elect.

I suggest you start with what it means to be IN Christ by faith!

 

[dcontroversal]

the path God choose for us is to believe in His Son, and love one another. 1st John 3. Not back to the Torah, and Sabbath keeping. Romans 3, the whole letter of Galatians. no one will be justified by the law.

AMEN..........fully agree....

 

[dcontroversal]

You know, I am starting to appreciate the hard-headed opponents of Mainline Christian Doctrines, for being here; for several reasons.

1. I am learning patience and long suffering, like never before.

2. It is sharpening my sword to be razor sharp.
Their hard heads are the perfect sharpening stone.

3. Their repetitiveness of making the same false statement over and over,
are making verses stick in my head that I have always had a hard time remembering.

4. Sabbaticals, are becoming more needful, precious and refreshing to me.

5. It reminds me of a favorite scene of mine in the Movie, about Paul's life, when
Barnabas asked Paul, "Is it alright if I pray, that in the next town they will have softer rocks."

6. I get more opportunities, to encourage like-minded Believers
to remain strong in the Faith, and thereby encourage them.

7. I get to spend more personal time with my LORD comforting me,
while I listen to what HE wants me to say.

I love the sword play......and I agree with your assessment......

 

[dcontroversal]

But the Old Covenant, in the same Bible you claimed to have read cover to cover 17 times, is the Levitical Priesthood Sacrificial ceremonial "Works of the Law" for remission of sins. This is specifically mentioned and discussed in Hebrews 7-10.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

If you have read the Bible 17 times cover to cover, how is it you don't know about how sin's were cleansed prior to the "Seed" coming?[/QUOTE\]

WOW....read the verse again....it does not say they received remission for these things......as a matter of fact it states the exact opposite of what you say......

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for the blood of bulls and goats to TAKE away SINS Hebrews 10:4

 

[Seohce]

Hi Rokurac, of course you already know, the debate is, do you believe a theology of; Grace plus nothing, "Monergism", or Grace plus works, "Synergism", Yes the doctrine of Grace plus nothing is found throughout the Gospels, here is one just to get you started, but I'm sure you know this verse already, line upon line.

Also it has been repeated here again and again, that Able's offering to God, was, his faith and a blood sacrifice; Cain's offering to God, was his faith pus his good works. Faith is a gift of God, you cannot posses or achieve faith on your own.

The Synergistic folks here are always putting their good works ahead of Christ and rarely mention Jesus sacrifice, something to think about. Behind all of the conversations about Grace vs Law, the works people will finally admit that a believer can "lose their eternal salvation," "No security of the believer", Faith to Faith, "Salvation is of the Lord." Jonah2:9

This discussion, Grace vs Law has been going on for 2000yrs plus, it will not end until Jesus returns for His Bride the Church.

To some who were confident of their own righteousness

Luke18:9-14 - The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

9) To some who were confident of their own righteousness and
looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable:
10) “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11) The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.
12) I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13) “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14) “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

Just curious if the tax collector after going home justified, remained in his sins or remained a sinner?

21st Century King James Version Romans 5:8 But God commendeth His love toward us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[VCO]

That's how you treat everyone who oppose you but I still believe that not all who are reading along are heart-hardenened or as blind as you. If your Faith Alone in Christ Saves you, why do you reject His commands?

NO OSAS born again Believer that I know has EVER REJECTED HIS COMMANDS. YOU ARE PEDDLING MORE LIES. THE ONLY PURE MOTIVE FOR KEEPING HIS COMMANDS IS BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM. WE SHOW OUR LOVE FOR HIM BY STRIVING TO KEEP HIS COMMANDS.


John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.



YOU BELIEVED A PACK LIES ABOUT US, NOW YOU ARE SPREADING THOSE LIES, AND THAT IS SIN WHERE I COME FROM.


HAVE TO KEEP - IS A LIE.

WILL KEEP as an act of LOVE for HIM, is absolute TRUTH.

 

[VCO]

. . ."Traditions and Doctrines of the Mainstream Church of Christ's time. . . . not the righteousness of some religious franchise.

One more TIME. THE BIRTHDAY OF THE CHURCH WAS THE DAY OF PENTECOST, AFTER CHRIST'S ASCENSION.

Your last statement must have been you looking in a mirror.

 

[VCO]

HEY, OSAS TRUE BLEIEVERS:

ISN'T THIS GIVING US A DEEPER UNDERSTANDING WHY CHRIST SAID:


Matthew 10:14 (NRSV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words,
shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town.

 

[Seohce]

^^^^^^^ A fine example of a working for liar who deceptively posts and twists what is said in order to prove point that is not proven.

Funny thing.....how the workers for and sinless perfectionists use deception ALL the time to try and discredit all who believe in eternal security all while claiming that their works and sinless state is what saves them........

And now you make scriptures a deception that when people prove you wrong through scriptures, they are deceiving and your words are the truth.

Aren't you the one deceiving people here and causes division with an argument based on your own interpretation without considering the absolute truth in the bible which clearly states that it is " NOT BY WORKS" and not "WITHOUT(VOID OF)WORKS" as you usually claim by saying that FAITH ALONE SAVES(void of works).

With your deception, you resort to rejecting the plain truth in the ff: verses,

James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

.and the many other verses on post#1614 which you blatantly rejected by way of saying that they don't have any bearing on this thread. Not to mention the truths in the scripture posted by the SDA's w/c you as well rejected to the point of saying that (rephrased) even if they post the whole bible it will not change your view or belief. (Excuse me if I can't recall the exact words).

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

 

[Studyman]

But the Old Covenant, in the same Bible you claimed to have read cover to cover 17 times, is the Levitical Priesthood Sacrificial ceremonial "Works of the Law" for remission of sins. This is specifically mentioned and discussed in Hebrews 7-10.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

If you have read the Bible 17 times cover to cover, how is it you don't know about how sin's were cleansed prior to the "Seed" coming?[/QUOTE\]

WOW....read the verse again....it does not say they received remission for these things......as a matter of fact it states the exact opposite of what you say......

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for the blood of bulls and goats to TAKE away SINS Hebrews 10:4

But it was the law. And it was for the remission and cleansing of sin. Symbolic, yes. Did the Mainstream preachers lose their meaning, yes. But is was the law just the same and both Jesus and Paul fought with them. I'm not sure why you refuse to accept this Biblical truth.

 

[PJW]

THE ONLY PURE MOTIVE FOR KEEPING HIS COMMANDS IS BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM. WE SHOW OUR LOVE FOR HIM BY STRIVING TO KEEP HIS COMMANDS.

Wouldn't the opposite be true too?
If we don't keep His commands we show that we don't love Him?

 

[Seohce]

^^^^^^^ A fine example of a working for liar who deceptively posts and twists what is said in order to prove point that is not proven.

Funny thing.....how the workers for and sinless perfectionists use deception ALL the time to try and discredit all who believe in eternal security all while claiming that their works and sinless state is what saves them........

If you call that deception and twisting, how would you call this post and all your other posts.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were STILL SINNERS, Christ died for us.

ARE YOU STILL A SINNER?
If your answer is no then I apologize.
If yes then...

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

 

[TruthTalk]

False....He was reeducated and taught by direct revelation......his view of the LAW and PROPHETS had to be rightfully adjusted by JESUS.........

Amen Decon,

 

[Studyman]

One more TIME. THE BIRTHDAY OF THE CHURCH WAS THE DAY OF PENTECOST, AFTER CHRIST'S ASCENSION.

Your last statement must have been you looking in a mirror.

As I have said over and over. I am speaking about the Mainstream God of Abraham Preaching Congregation/Assemble/Church that killed the prophets, killed Jesus and killed Stephen.

I posted the definition of these words, I have shown where there were in fact priests, synagogues, Congregations and assemblies, that existed BEFORE Jesus rejected them and created His congregation and assemblies translated in the Greek as "church". He founded a Congregation, a church, one that doesn't "Transgress the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and traditions."

Psalms 74:4 Thine enemies roar in the midst of thy congregations;(Church/Assembly) they set up their ensigns for signs.

Joel 2:16 Gather the people, sanctify the congregation(Church), assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.

How much bitterness and hatred must you have in your heart to reject such a fundamental Biblical truth.

 

[Studyman]

False....He was reeducated and taught by direct revelation......his view of the LAW and PROPHETS had to be rightfully adjusted by JESUS.........

That is true, The Mainstream Preachers of that time, called Pharisees, were teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men, not of God".

They were "Transgressing the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and Traditions."

Paul had to be re-educated as you correctly said. He had been deceived by the Mainstream God of Abraham preaching people of his time as were many. So Jesus knocked him off his high horse, and sent him to a Disciple to learn the truth about the Law and Prophets, not the distorted deceit taught by the Mainstream Preachers of his time.

Acts 9:19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.


But it wasn't long before the Mainstream Preacher turned on him in a big way.

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

The same things the Bible has always taught.



21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.


22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

The same thing Jesus and Peter taught.



Acts 28:21 And they said unto him, We neither received letters out of Judaea concerning thee, neither any of the brethren that came shewed or spake any harm of thee.
22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.
23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:


I am sorry we have such a stark disagreement of the scriptures. But I can't just ignore volumes of Verses just to justify Mainstream preaching.

 

[VCO]

And now you make scriptures a deception that when people prove you wrong through scriptures, they are deceiving and your words are the truth.

Aren't you the one deceiving people here and causes division with an argument based on your own interpretation without considering the absolute truth in the bible which clearly states that it is " NOT BY WORKS" and not "WITHOUT(VOID OF)WORKS" as you usually claim by saying that FAITH ALONE SAVES(void of works).

. . .

No you are the one deceiving and causing division.

Acts 15:11 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] On the contrary, we believe we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus in the same way they are.”

Ephesians 2:5 (NRSV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NRSV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not the result of works, so that no one may boast.


Romans 3:23-25 (CSBBible)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] They are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] God presented him as an atoning sacrifice in his blood, received through faith, to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his restraint God passed over the sins previously committed.

Galatians 5:4 (CSBBible)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace.

Titus 3:7 (CSBBible)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that, having been justified by his grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.


GRACE = Receiving from GOD as a free gift, what you can NEVER EARN.

MERCY = NOT Receiving from GOD what YOU DO DESERVE, for your sin debt that you can NEVER REPAY.


Titus 3:5-7 (CSBBible)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] he saved us — not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to his mercy — through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] He poured out his Spirit on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that, having been justified by his grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.

Daniel 9:18 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] O my God, incline Your ear and hear; open Your eyes and see our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name; for we do not present our supplications before You because of our righteous deeds, but because of Your great mercies.

Romans 5:8-10 (NRSV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more surely then, now that we have been justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life.


You see it is Your theology that is Deceiving and causing division

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."[/FONT]