My fiance doesn't believe in the Trinity
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...the-trinity/&usg=AOvVaw0YoprIvcwOL1298ayUXXZv
I don't know if you found help but theres a website with scripture about the Trinity, and he prayed at Gethsemane because he wanted to communicate with God, but if he's "God" how can he pray to himself, I get how she wonders that, but the answer is that he isn't God himself but is part of God, sooo yeah, Idk if that helped but...
I don't know if you found help but theres a website with scripture about the Trinity, and he prayed at Gethsemane because he wanted to communicate with God, but if he's "God" how can he pray to himself, I get how she wonders that, but the answer is that he isn't God himself but is part of God, sooo yeah, Idk if that helped but...
D
Seriously? Once again you step away from standing with the Lord to let someone else give you an opinion that you already know the answer to, but will not act upon.
If you truly don't know what to do, don't get married. Don't get married until you are a man of God and know what to do. Because, seriously, dude. A wife is to submit to her husband under the assumption he is man enough to submit to the Lord. You won't even do that yet. We're women. WE'RE the weaker vessels, so we really can't live under a vessel made of morning frost.
If you truly don't know what to do, don't get married. Don't get married until you are a man of God and know what to do. Because, seriously, dude. A wife is to submit to her husband under the assumption he is man enough to submit to the Lord. You won't even do that yet. We're women. WE'RE the weaker vessels, so we really can't live under a vessel made of morning frost.
I'm going with option 1.
Even you stated that the Deity of Christ is essential doctrine which flipped on it's head means that if someone does not believe that Christ is God, they are not a Christian.
It may not seem to be a big deal right now but what happens once you are married?
Do you plan on having children? What are they going to be taught? That Christ was a good, moral teacher or that he was God himself? Believe it or not "minor" issues like this in child rearing often cause divorce.
Even you stated that the Deity of Christ is essential doctrine which flipped on it's head means that if someone does not believe that Christ is God, they are not a Christian.
It may not seem to be a big deal right now but what happens once you are married?
Do you plan on having children? What are they going to be taught? That Christ was a good, moral teacher or that he was God himself? Believe it or not "minor" issues like this in child rearing often cause divorce.
Depleted and Oncefallen both said it well.
The way I see it this.
1. You want your wife to be a Christian and have orthodox doctrine, including the Trinity and the deity of Christ. I agree!
2. You love this woman and you want to marry her, in fact you WILL marry her! Except she doesn't believe in number 1 above!
So, your solution is to change her! Except, no one can change another person, only God. And you do not know if God will change her, and this heretical belief system.
Again, think long term, not short term lust/infatuation or even love. Because with this conflict in essential deludes, your are destined for conflict, and problems. And think of any hildren. How are you going up feel if she teaches them Jesus isn't Gid?
I thank God for my husband, and that we totally agreed in the fundamentals of our faith, and raised our child as unified parents. There are do many lies in the world. Children need to come home to parents who believe the same thing, not to conflict.
My warning is that you will come to regret this, in the long term. I know that is not what you wanted to hear, but I am telling the truth!
The way I see it this.
1. You want your wife to be a Christian and have orthodox doctrine, including the Trinity and the deity of Christ. I agree!
2. You love this woman and you want to marry her, in fact you WILL marry her! Except she doesn't believe in number 1 above!
So, your solution is to change her! Except, no one can change another person, only God. And you do not know if God will change her, and this heretical belief system.
Again, think long term, not short term lust/infatuation or even love. Because with this conflict in essential deludes, your are destined for conflict, and problems. And think of any hildren. How are you going up feel if she teaches them Jesus isn't Gid?
I thank God for my husband, and that we totally agreed in the fundamentals of our faith, and raised our child as unified parents. There are do many lies in the world. Children need to come home to parents who believe the same thing, not to conflict.
My warning is that you will come to regret this, in the long term. I know that is not what you wanted to hear, but I am telling the truth!
i grew up up southern baptist and was always taught trinity doctrine but i have some questions about this doctrine
Nowhere in the Bible does Christ claim deity or ask to be worshiped,. He always concedes to the Father God.Also nowhere in the Bible does it say that Trinity doctrine is essential for salvation
Nowhere in the Bible does Christ claim deity or ask to be worshiped,. He always concedes to the Father God.Also nowhere in the Bible does it say that Trinity doctrine is essential for salvation
D
Simple. Stop thinking you are saved because you grew up in a church and start reading the word. Gospel of John. Yes, he most surely does say he is the I AM!
The only way someone can believe Jesus isn't God and God isn't triune is to not read the Bible. The only people who do not read the Bible are the unsaved.
The only way someone can believe Jesus isn't God and God isn't triune is to not read the Bible. The only people who do not read the Bible are the unsaved.
There in lies your problem, your trying to do it, only God can get through to her to reveal the truth,
Just keep praying, and don't be so forceful, if you keep trying to convince her, you will push her away, and possibly turn her off of learning the truth. If she wants to know she will ask you, just pray that God reaches into her heart and reveal the truth to her.
With her background, do not be surprised if it takes years to teach her the truth. If she asks you a question just answer it from an unbiased approach, you know the truth about the trinity, and you know the verses, if she asks, then just say here is why I believe it and here is what the Bible says about it.
For example, I believe that Jesus is God in the flesh, born of a virgin. Because The old testimate predicts a messiah would be born of a Virgin, and the New Testimate confirms that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary. He also said he is the way the truth and the life and no man comes to the Father but by him. The Bible also says that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, The New testimate is clear that In the beginning was the word, and the word was made flesh and dwealt amongst us.
I also believe Jesus is God and that God is one God dwelling in 3 people, The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit because, In genesis, God said let us make man in our image, us and our are a clear indication that it is plural and there is more than one, even though God said it. Then in the New testimate It clearly states that there are 3 that bear record in heaven, The father, The word, and the holy Ghost, and these three are one, and again, if Jesus is not God how could his blood cleanse us of our sins, if he was just a man? his blood couldn't be accepted by God because it would have been tainted with sin like every other human being on earth. The blood of the sacrifice had to be pure and without blemish. That's why Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me.
I hope this helps you.
Just keep praying, and don't be so forceful, if you keep trying to convince her, you will push her away, and possibly turn her off of learning the truth. If she wants to know she will ask you, just pray that God reaches into her heart and reveal the truth to her.
With her background, do not be surprised if it takes years to teach her the truth. If she asks you a question just answer it from an unbiased approach, you know the truth about the trinity, and you know the verses, if she asks, then just say here is why I believe it and here is what the Bible says about it.
For example, I believe that Jesus is God in the flesh, born of a virgin. Because The old testimate predicts a messiah would be born of a Virgin, and the New Testimate confirms that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary. He also said he is the way the truth and the life and no man comes to the Father but by him. The Bible also says that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, The New testimate is clear that In the beginning was the word, and the word was made flesh and dwealt amongst us.
I also believe Jesus is God and that God is one God dwelling in 3 people, The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit because, In genesis, God said let us make man in our image, us and our are a clear indication that it is plural and there is more than one, even though God said it. Then in the New testimate It clearly states that there are 3 that bear record in heaven, The father, The word, and the holy Ghost, and these three are one, and again, if Jesus is not God how could his blood cleanse us of our sins, if he was just a man? his blood couldn't be accepted by God because it would have been tainted with sin like every other human being on earth. The blood of the sacrifice had to be pure and without blemish. That's why Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me.
I hope this helps you.
"Oh and not marrying her is not an option. She is far more likely to find the truth with me than without me, in my estimation."
What about God's estimation? If you do not agree on who God is as described in the bible does that not make you unequally yoked? Trouble ahead? Have nothing to do with those who preach another doctrine. Maybe God has closed the door on your relationship you just want him to close it your way and not his way. What do you want him to do when you say take her away from you? He has made it clear in scripture. You complicate your life if you go ahead and marry. Only the Holy Spirit can cause her to see the truth. Maybe there is someone else who is meant for her and someone else meant for you. If she cannot say my Lord and my God to Jesus like Thomas did she is not there yet.
What about God's estimation? If you do not agree on who God is as described in the bible does that not make you unequally yoked? Trouble ahead? Have nothing to do with those who preach another doctrine. Maybe God has closed the door on your relationship you just want him to close it your way and not his way. What do you want him to do when you say take her away from you? He has made it clear in scripture. You complicate your life if you go ahead and marry. Only the Holy Spirit can cause her to see the truth. Maybe there is someone else who is meant for her and someone else meant for you. If she cannot say my Lord and my God to Jesus like Thomas did she is not there yet.
"Oh and not marrying her is not an option. She is far more likely to find the truth with me than without me, in my estimation."
What about God's estimation? If you do not agree on who God is as described in the bible does that not make you unequally yoked? Trouble ahead? Have nothing to do with those who preach another doctrine. Maybe God has closed the door on your relationship you just want him to close it your way and not his way. What do you want him to do when you say take her away from you? He has made it clear in scripture. You complicate your life if you go ahead and marry. Only the Holy Spirit can cause her to see the truth. Maybe there is someone else who is meant for her and someone else meant for you. If she cannot say my Lord and my God to Jesus like Thomas did she is not there yet.
What about God's estimation? If you do not agree on who God is as described in the bible does that not make you unequally yoked? Trouble ahead? Have nothing to do with those who preach another doctrine. Maybe God has closed the door on your relationship you just want him to close it your way and not his way. What do you want him to do when you say take her away from you? He has made it clear in scripture. You complicate your life if you go ahead and marry. Only the Holy Spirit can cause her to see the truth. Maybe there is someone else who is meant for her and someone else meant for you. If she cannot say my Lord and my God to Jesus like Thomas did she is not there yet.
Believing in the Trinity or not believing in the Trinity is irrelevant to ones Salvation. For one to be Saved they merely need to believe in Jesus and Love One Another. Doctrinal issues are just that, Doctrinal issues NOT Salvation issues.
It is one issue that you allow satan to bother you about, is more accurate.
Oh the simplicity to merely believe as a child without needing proof. Why is it not enough that she is Christian? Must she believe all doctrinal issues that you believe in order to have a good marriage? Is it your place to convict her or is it the place of the Holy Spirit to convict her. If God wants her to know and understand the Trinity, then God will see to it that she does. But it seems it bothers YOU that she does not believe as you do, therefore you have tried to convince her right? You have shown her verse after verse after verse trying to persuade her to believe as YOU believe. (Note: not saying your wrong, because you are not wrong, only saying it is not that great of an issue that she does not believe as you believe. Now if she disagrees with the Word of God that may be another issue that may be serious)
Then she needs to ask God for understanding, and HE will give it to her. Maybe it is not for YOU to give it to her, but for her to find it for herself.
No unambiguous Bible verses that clearly spell out the Trinity? Yeah there is.
1Jn_5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
The Trinity spelled out quite clearly. Now if she does not believe Scriptures for this reason or that reason, that is an issue that needs to be addressed. You either believe ALL verses are inspired by God or you don't believe the Word of God. To many people in this last days generation pick and choose which verses they will believe in and which ones they will 1) ignore 2) make void or 3) interpret away. But it is ONLY when you believe ALL verses that a person can come close to understanding the TRUTH of Scriptures, the mystery of God.
Did God tell you that it was your responsibility to convince her of the Trinity, or is that something YOU desire to do? You need to question yourself why it is that you are so adamant that on this particular issue you want her to believe exactly as you believe. Can't you pray to God "God, i have told her the TRUTH, it is up to you now, to show her the reality of it" Then let it be. Let God decide when He will convince her of the TRUTH. You keep pushing her to believe as you do, you will only push her away from the TRUTH farther than she already is on this matter. You have told her the TRUTH concerning the Trinity, your words will not come back void, now stand back and let God do His thing.
lol, exactly what i said just above.
And i assure you, as long as you continue to do that, you are in the way for God to do His stuff on her,
Again who is whispering to you that it is your place to help her understand the Truth? True you did the Godly thing by telling her the TRUTH concerning the Trinity, now get out of the way and let God have the wheel.
The only thing God requires of us to reveal the Truth. NOT convince people of the Truth. You have told her the Truth concerning the topic of the Trinity, YOU have done what God wanted you to do, now let God work on her in His own time. Seriously though the problem i see, is in you. Why is it so important to YOU that she believes the Trinity, which has nothing to do with her Salvation. She is Saved, she is going to Heaven, but for some reason you feel you have a HUGE problem with her because she does not believe the Truth concerning the Trinity. Why? That is something i think you need to address, try to figure out why satan has got you so riled up over a topic that isn't even a Salvation issue?
Your estimation is wrong. She is far more likely to find out the Truth from God than from you. You have told her the Truth about the Trinity, drop it already and let God work on her now. All you will do is push her away the more you try to PUSH your belief onto her. Step aside and let God.
Your welcome. Please don't take this post the wrong way. i am not angry or upset with you, and all this was said to you in a loving way, even though you can't tell by mere writing it. You are right about the Trinity, you need not convince her your right about it. Love you brother. You and her both will be in my prayer tonight.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
It is one issue that you allow satan to bother you about, is more accurate.
Oh the simplicity to merely believe as a child without needing proof. Why is it not enough that she is Christian? Must she believe all doctrinal issues that you believe in order to have a good marriage? Is it your place to convict her or is it the place of the Holy Spirit to convict her. If God wants her to know and understand the Trinity, then God will see to it that she does. But it seems it bothers YOU that she does not believe as you do, therefore you have tried to convince her right? You have shown her verse after verse after verse trying to persuade her to believe as YOU believe. (Note: not saying your wrong, because you are not wrong, only saying it is not that great of an issue that she does not believe as you believe. Now if she disagrees with the Word of God that may be another issue that may be serious)
Then she needs to ask God for understanding, and HE will give it to her. Maybe it is not for YOU to give it to her, but for her to find it for herself.
No unambiguous Bible verses that clearly spell out the Trinity? Yeah there is.
1Jn_5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
The Trinity spelled out quite clearly. Now if she does not believe Scriptures for this reason or that reason, that is an issue that needs to be addressed. You either believe ALL verses are inspired by God or you don't believe the Word of God. To many people in this last days generation pick and choose which verses they will believe in and which ones they will 1) ignore 2) make void or 3) interpret away. But it is ONLY when you believe ALL verses that a person can come close to understanding the TRUTH of Scriptures, the mystery of God.
Did God tell you that it was your responsibility to convince her of the Trinity, or is that something YOU desire to do? You need to question yourself why it is that you are so adamant that on this particular issue you want her to believe exactly as you believe. Can't you pray to God "God, i have told her the TRUTH, it is up to you now, to show her the reality of it" Then let it be. Let God decide when He will convince her of the TRUTH. You keep pushing her to believe as you do, you will only push her away from the TRUTH farther than she already is on this matter. You have told her the TRUTH concerning the Trinity, your words will not come back void, now stand back and let God do His thing.
lol, exactly what i said just above.
And i assure you, as long as you continue to do that, you are in the way for God to do His stuff on her,
Again who is whispering to you that it is your place to help her understand the Truth? True you did the Godly thing by telling her the TRUTH concerning the Trinity, now get out of the way and let God have the wheel.
The only thing God requires of us to reveal the Truth. NOT convince people of the Truth. You have told her the Truth concerning the topic of the Trinity, YOU have done what God wanted you to do, now let God work on her in His own time. Seriously though the problem i see, is in you. Why is it so important to YOU that she believes the Trinity, which has nothing to do with her Salvation. She is Saved, she is going to Heaven, but for some reason you feel you have a HUGE problem with her because she does not believe the Truth concerning the Trinity. Why? That is something i think you need to address, try to figure out why satan has got you so riled up over a topic that isn't even a Salvation issue?
Your estimation is wrong. She is far more likely to find out the Truth from God than from you. You have told her the Truth about the Trinity, drop it already and let God work on her now. All you will do is push her away the more you try to PUSH your belief onto her. Step aside and let God.
Your welcome. Please don't take this post the wrong way. i am not angry or upset with you, and all this was said to you in a loving way, even though you can't tell by mere writing it. You are right about the Trinity, you need not convince her your right about it. Love you brother. You and her both will be in my prayer tonight.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
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Just because someone offers me advice, it doesn't mean I have to take it, or even to be grateful for it.
The manner in which you have delivered your advice has been rather aggressive, and quite unpleasant really.
I'm critiquing your advice because I think it is bad advice and deserves to be critiqued - don't get all upset that I'm not agreeing with your suggestions.
If what you are saying is that I should pick one of two extreme options, either leave her or never talk to her about the trinity again, that's bad advice. You seem to have such a focus on the feelings of my fiance and you seem to think I'm some sort of brute who is seeking to impose MY will on her. This is an issue of evangelism and that's what you're not understanding. So that's why I'm rejecting your advice and in particular the manner in which you delivered it.
The manner in which you have delivered your advice has been rather aggressive, and quite unpleasant really.
I'm critiquing your advice because I think it is bad advice and deserves to be critiqued - don't get all upset that I'm not agreeing with your suggestions.
If what you are saying is that I should pick one of two extreme options, either leave her or never talk to her about the trinity again, that's bad advice. You seem to have such a focus on the feelings of my fiance and you seem to think I'm some sort of brute who is seeking to impose MY will on her. This is an issue of evangelism and that's what you're not understanding. So that's why I'm rejecting your advice and in particular the manner in which you delivered it.
This advice is absolutely repugnant, and you sound like a dangerous zealot.
I'm certainly not going to listen to someone who has the gall to decide who is and isn't saved based on a few posts on the internet. I say I'm having a problem with my fiance, and you tell me I need to be saved and that my marriage will fail! You're an extremist. Please, do me a favour and don't offer me any more advice.
I'm certainly not going to listen to someone who has the gall to decide who is and isn't saved based on a few posts on the internet. I say I'm having a problem with my fiance, and you tell me I need to be saved and that my marriage will fail! You're an extremist. Please, do me a favour and don't offer me any more advice.
Thank you Dave for your detailed post. I appreciate the sentiment of what you and others have said about the state of a person's heart being more important to God then doctrinal issues.
When I hear you say that the trinity is not a salvation issue though, I think of Romans 10:9 - [FONT="]If you declare[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="] with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="] and believe[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="] in your heart that God raised him from the dead,[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="] you will be saved.[/FONT]
I'd like to know what you think of this verse.
Also, I need to correct you on 1 John 5:7. This verse was a clear addition to the KJV by a trinity zealot, seeking to put to rest once and for all any ambiguity about biblical evidence for the trinity. It's not an original verse and is in no early manuscripts.
Lastly, you and almost everyone else has said something to the effect of "Stop talking to her about the trinity. You're getting in the way and pushing her away. Let God do the work". To that I would respond, What if God is working through me on this issue? God works through people. I understand that everyone here just wants me to shut up and never mention the trinity to her again. OK - I think I can do that. But I want practical advice on what else I can do to enable someone else to explain it to her, since I am apparently so completely toxic.
When I hear you say that the trinity is not a salvation issue though, I think of Romans 10:9 - [FONT="]If you declare[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="] with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="] and believe[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="] in your heart that God raised him from the dead,[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="] you will be saved.[/FONT]
I'd like to know what you think of this verse.
Also, I need to correct you on 1 John 5:7. This verse was a clear addition to the KJV by a trinity zealot, seeking to put to rest once and for all any ambiguity about biblical evidence for the trinity. It's not an original verse and is in no early manuscripts.
Lastly, you and almost everyone else has said something to the effect of "Stop talking to her about the trinity. You're getting in the way and pushing her away. Let God do the work". To that I would respond, What if God is working through me on this issue? God works through people. I understand that everyone here just wants me to shut up and never mention the trinity to her again. OK - I think I can do that. But I want practical advice on what else I can do to enable someone else to explain it to her, since I am apparently so completely toxic.