Gay Christian?

Speeder · Jun 22, 2010

I don't said, that everyone should marry at 13. I said, that some people, that are 13, are completly fine to marry...

Seriously, we have 13 year old people being soldiers, in the Brazil story, there are a 9 year old girl that lead an entire army, fought alongside with them, and was also their religious leader (she was catholic), when people assume things, they can go badly wrong, specially if they are inflexible.

I am not saying that 50 year old males should go around hunting teenagers to marry, but when people go saying that it is always a sin, I can say that it is not.

People need to understand, that the world is not made of black and white, we have all other shades of gray, and even other colours too, there are immoral things, amoral things, moral things, wrong, right, neutral, lawful, unlawful, orderly, chaotic, sinful, not-sinful... And there are things that have several of these adjectives, in a counter-intuitive way (example: terrorism, it is unlawful, wrong for the victims, right for those that defend it as a mean of asymmetric warfare, and its morality sometimes unclear), and some may not even have these adjectives at all, they may be something else entirely.

The basis to define what is a sin, is what the bible says, you cannot "invent" sins, unless for yourself (the bible allows that, but disallow you to condemn someone else for a sin that you invented), and things that are not condemned usually are NOT sinful at all, unless they break the Yahweh command: Love thy neighbor. (note: the love here, is the agapé, it is not the same as the sentimental love as we know).

Stand_Up_4_God · Jun 22, 2010

Sorry to tell you, but just because you say something isn't a sin, does not make it not be a sin. If God says it's a sin, then it is. Two people marry at whatever ages, okay whatever, but it's sick, and against the law for someone that old to marry someone so young. Someone young enough to be their child or grandchild icky. Anyhow, I stick by my own convictions and stuff on this. You can't invent sins even for yourself sorry, that's just not how it works. Nor can you invent them for someone else. If God convicts and says to you it's a sin, then it is. You can't decide for yourself or for others if something is a sin. Go to God's word on it.

ExplodingBryan · Jun 28, 2010

Speeder said:

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........no. Sin or not-sin, there is no in-between. God decides. You may not know God's ruling on a particular action, but it is or is not sin, it cannot be "on the fence." The "shades of gray" you mention, is mankind's justification of actions. To God, all is black and white. But this is not to say that everything is either holy or sinful, I am saying it is either sinful or acceptable behavior. Holy behavior is a different tier of actions.

avdl · Jun 29, 2010

It all comes down to respect for human dignity. Homosexuality is a sin as well as adultery, lying, greed, murder etc.

God has a specific design for us (read Genesis). The problem with the discussion of homosexuality is that in a world of machismo, homosexuality is elevated to the level of blasphemy, while adultery ( a sign of supposed "manliness") is ignored.

Homosexuality is a decision, sometimes motivated by environmental factors (psychological) or just a decision. Also, culture has accepted homosexuality as normal, just like it accepted fornication and adultery as normal conducts.

In the end, we are not the ones to judge. We may condemn the sin, not the person. We should reflect the love that Christ has for us and just love and respect.

Lyndies · Jun 29, 2010

avdl said:

It all comes down to respect for human dignity. Homosexuality is a sin as well as adultery, lying, greed, murder etc.

God has a specific design for us (read Genesis). The problem with the discussion of homosexuality is that in a world of machismo, homosexuality is elevated to the level of blasphemy, while adultery ( a sign of supposed "manliness") is ignored.

Homosexuality is a decision, sometimes motivated by environmental factors (psychological) or just a decision. Also, culture has accepted homosexuality as normal, just like it accepted fornication and adultery as normal conducts.

In the end, we are not the ones to judge. We may condemn the sin, not the person. We should reflect the love that Christ has for us and just love and respect.

Thank you! Amen. :]

Patchface · Jul 3, 2010

Lyndies, follow your heart. If you think being gay is okay, that's okay.

imoss · Jul 4, 2010

Patchface... position yourself at the foot of the cross. imagine Christ right in front of you looking upon you... would you repeat those words to our Lord and savior? When giving advice concerning matters that God in his word has identified as sin... pretend you are looking upon the Lord and saying them. I would no more say follow your heart to being Gay than I would say steal your neighbours boat or sleep with your neighbours wife if it is in your heart to do so. Always, when it is concerning matters of faith, think upon what is acceptable to God rather than what has become acceptable to man.

Maddog · Jul 5, 2010

ExplodingBryan said:

Objectively, any given scenario is either sinful or not. However, I think what he was trying to say was that the circumstances influence whether or not an action is moral. For example, murder is wrong, but a soldier killing an enemy combatant during a firefight is not. In both instances a life has been taken but the surrounding circumstances condemn one and vindicate the other.

jwindow · Jul 6, 2010

Some typical responses in here for sure. People have to be careful when quoting scripture to it's context and cultural/environmental characteristics that give meaning to scripture. Jesus spoke in parables to provide relevance to the crowds, in the same way New Testament writers were writing to Jewish/Gentile people.
I'd like to point out first (well I guess 2nd) I'm not here to say homosexuality isn't a sin. I believe God created us male & female, and that design works one way. But a couple of thoughts:
- a sin is a sin, there is only one mentioned in the bible to be "unforgivable" and it isn't homosexuality. Sexual sin (of any kind) certainly affects others in quite a strong way compared to say lying. The church now readily accepts adulterers, divorcees etc, so why not the homosexual community. I remember walking past a "gay" bar and noticing how everyone was accepted. There is definitely something wrong with the world when anyone is accepted in a "gay" bar but not in church. A lot of looking and removing of specks from our own eyes needs to be done. Who did Jesus hang out with? The "sick", not the "healthy". Did he condemn them, or love them? I'm pretty sure he didn't go onto blogs and write hatred and condemnation. Think of the story of the woman at the well and the woman who had committed adultery "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
- the world was created perfect right? Then the fall happened, all sorts of crap has happened since then. Now we see great number of people affected by all sorts of illnesses i.e. down syndrome, depression etc. Do you know that during a person first few years, their environment affects their development to a point where they can't change it by the time they have a choice. i.e. if a mother who is anxious through her pregnancy, the babies development will be affected and that person will have a predisposition to being anxious for the rest of their lives. I would like to think (& did) that all homosexuals chose to be homosexual, but have a look around you and get to know people, love first, leave the judging to God. Research shows that some people are homosexual due to upbringing/environment i.e. abuse, note the word some.
I read a good book recently called "UnChristian" by David Zimmerman (?). Some interesting thoughts

Aqua_Girl09 · Jul 6, 2010

the excuse "God made me this way'' can be used for a lot of things. as humans we also want to lie, covet, fornicate, and a bunch of other things. MANY people deal with pornography and masturbation issues. The bible doesn't say NOT to masturbate but it does say not to fantasize about such things. and it also says don't steal, or murder, or covet, even though sometimes you REALLY want to. Well, it seems to me that those who feel that they are homosexual just have a hard time with THAT particular sin. and need more prayer and practice to avoid it. ^_^. that's how i see it anyway. God made it quite clear when he said that man and man shouldn't lay together. no changing it or looking around it. no one can decide which parts of the bible are ok to follow and which parts are not. the WHOLE thing is the truth and the book of life. we're to follow ALL of it.

gadfire · Jul 7, 2010

It doesnt matter what anyone says.sooner or later you will find out if it was a sin or not.when you stand before God and give account of your life.whether you be gay,straight or whatever,.
It is irrelevant what I think or what anyone else thinks.I just need to love without bias.without condition.I dont need to take sides one way or the other.It isnt required of me to be a christian to do such things.

Good day
Garnett

BouyertheDestroyer · Jul 7, 2010

I am just curious, but can you be sent to hell for being homosexual even if your life is full of good deeds and praise to God?

vahn · Jul 7, 2010

BouyertheDestroyer said:

Can you be sent to hell for being a liar/murderer/thief even if your life is full of good deeds and praise to God?

vahn · Jul 7, 2010

I am not the one to judge to either of these questions. But you get my point

imoss · Jul 7, 2010

BouyertheDestroyer said:

Our good deeds are but filth in the eyes of a righteous Lord. The only way to avoid hell is receive Jesus as your Lord and saviour. Many praise God but havent received the Lord. Gods righteousness is like a blanket upon us in Christ Jesus. When we receive the Lord we receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy spirit will nudge us and convict us of our sin. We can ignore this or not. When we choose to listen to the Holy spirit our relationship with the Lord grows... In that and in spending time in the word of God & in prayer of course. When we ignore the Holy Spirit our fullness of life as a christian is in jeopardy... our salvation is not. This is my opinion... not that I'm a pastor or anything. One thing I do know though is the grace of our Lord. Our very best works are in vain if we have not the Lord.

lil-rush · Jul 8, 2010

Patchface said:

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

I wouldn't advise her follow after what her heart tells her to do. We should never follow our heart. We should follow God.

PARADOX_1 · Jul 8, 2010

Aqua_Girl09 said:

the excuse "God made me this way'' can be used for a lot of things. as humans we also want to lie, covet, fornicate, and a bunch of other things. MANY people deal with pornography and masturbation issues. The bible doesn't say NOT to masturbate but it does say not to fantasize about such things. and it also says don't steal, or murder, or covet, even though sometimes you REALLY want to. Well, it seems to me that those who feel that they are homosexual just have a hard time with THAT particular sin. and need more prayer and practice to avoid it. ^_^. that's how i see it anyway. God made it quite clear when he said that man and man shouldn't lay together. no changing it or looking around it. no one can decide which parts of the bible are ok to follow and which parts are not. the WHOLE thing is the truth and the book of life. we're to follow ALL of it.

I couldnt agree more. great post.

Andres1985 · Jul 11, 2010

Hey, greetings from venezuela..

I think this topical could be very controversial, but.. well i'm not going to talk about someone's experience but mine...I have a friend ( who is to close to me) who reciently confess me that since he was a child he realize he has this "homsexual condition"... mmm when he told me that and he recognized it to me, i most say that it was kind of shocking becouse i never could imagine that he never shows any patron or behavior as an " gay person" i know this frien so close and i know his passion to serve God, the love hie have for God, and i can say i don't know other persona who follow and serve God in the way he does... he said i don't know andres why i'm like this, i've never lived the homosexual live becouse i want to be " obedient to God and i'm scare, but then he said, "why if i'm trying to change this thing inside me, and i've tryed everything, i want the lord change my heart, becouse He is the only one who can do this, why i cannot change? he said, why nothing happend? if this is a bad thing well i want to change it and he knows that, why is he taking so long what he wants me to probe him? ( and i'm being literally about what he said to me, trying to quote literally his word) and he started to cry, becouse he said it have been so hard to deal with it since.. always.. without no help, just he alone, becouse he was afraid someone at church just point at him and judge him withiut know his really passion heart.... when he finished i did not know what to said... i just start to cry with him and hug him and said to him I WILL NOT EVER JUDGE FOR WHAT YOU ARE OR WHAT YOU FEEL, God said : those who are free of sin then throw the first stone... i think is a waste of time judge someone becouse she or he has this feeling that they cannot understand and neither we can, becouse we dont know how is dealing with this thing, trying to change since you were a child and not be avaliable to do it, everyone of us has something in our heart that need to be changed.. and only Jesus is a life changer... if we allow him to get into our live... i prefer not talk about homosexuality behaviors or promiscuality or gays... i'm not sure about those definition.. but it do belive in love, tolerance and acceptation, i'm not saying we must accept the sing, is not that, but we must and we need to tove all the sinner... and you know what guys? everyone of us are not more or less sinner than someone who has this "particular situation"...... i said to him ( my friend) dude.. i dont know what to said in this case becouse i know you and you are not a crazy guy who is goinf to have some crazy experience with anyone you are not like that... but it do know onething and one thing only... and is this i said " when you stand in front of God maybe He can said to you a lloooot of things, but im pretty sure there is one thing he could not ever said against to you. Then he asked me, what things is that andres?, i said to him: He will not ever said that you didn't tryed, that you didn't tryed to be holy for him, that you didn't try to stay away from sin, that you didn't try to do rigth thing... maybe you falled into the path, but you did try, and you need to be sure of that in your heart..."

well my brothers and sisters, the thing is not about stay down in the floor, the most important thing is if you fall 1000 times you'll have the strength to stand up 1000 time more... and why? becouse we love more Jesus than our sins... and it's going to be moooore easy to stand up if we give our hand to the other to get up... we all need help from eachother, those peoples... well i mean all of us we are scare about those things that are in our heart and sometimes they came out... but if jesus is in us and we love eachother then then nothing is impossible...

everyone has an history to tell and face in their hearts, but not all of us are too brave to face it as my friend did... since that our friendship just grow up we are closer than ever and we love eachother like the bible said, he help me in my private things and i tryed to help him, in that way christian's life is going to be soo much easy....

Thank you, take care all of you

pancake · Jul 12, 2010

Hey. I figured since the person above shared his story that I would share mine.

Before this all began, I was raised in the church as a Nazarene. My mom never went to church, but she would let me spend the night at my grandmother's to go to church. When I was in the... 7th grade, I believe, I had decided I was gay; so for me it was a choice. To me, at the time, it just seemed to fit. I was so curious at first, wondering what to do about it, who should I come out to first, and so on and so forth. Years roll by and I end up moving to a new school. Immediatly I found friends who accepted me for who I was. I was far too afraid to tell anyone at church. All the time I considered myself gay I loved God and knew that He loved me, but I avoided thinking about how me being gay would effect my relationship with Him. Sometime during the 8th grade, I came out to my mom. She seemed okay with it, she sometimes still thinks I like guys like that, but she didn't talk or say much about it. It wasn't til the summer of freshman year that I went to a camp known as Rocky Creek (we just call it Super Camp). We had amazing and touch sermons. Practically everyone was at the alter or praying in their seats during alter call. So, on the night before we leave, I'm lookin at all the people crying and praying and I just feel this tug in my chest and my heart feels like... well, it's hard to describe, but I just get this feeling that I need to go down there and pray over my being gay. I had been having doubts about the okayness of being gay the time I was at camp. So I'm praying and praying and I'm just asking "Lord. What do You want for me? Who am I? What was I meant to be?" and I could feel deep down in my heart the Lord telling me that the path I was on was not the one he had made for me. I just started balling and asking for forgiveness over and over again. I just felt horrible for ignoring this all those long years and I just prayed and prayed until I was out of tears... and all I could do was smile. Like the world was lifted off my

pancake · Jul 12, 2010

Hey. I figured since the person above shared his story that I would share mine.

Before this all began, I was raised in the church as a Nazarene. My mom never went to church, but she would let me spend the night at my grandmother's to go to church. When I was in the... 7th grade, I believe, I had decided I was gay; so for me it was a choice. To me, at the time, it just seemed to fit. I was so curious at first, wondering what to do about it, who should I come out to first, and so on and so forth. Years roll by and I end up moving to a new school. Immediatly I found friends who accepted me for who I was. I was far too afraid to tell anyone at church. All the time I considered myself gay I loved God and knew that He loved me, but I avoided thinking about how me being gay would effect my relationship with Him. Sometime during the 8th grade, I came out to my mom. She seemed okay with it, she sometimes still thinks I like guys like that, but she didn't talk or say much about it. It wasn't til the summer of freshman year that I went to a camp known as Rocky Creek (we just call it Super Camp). We had amazing and touch sermons. Practically everyone was at the alter or praying in their seats during alter call. So, on the night before we leave, I'm lookin at all the people crying and praying and I just feel this tug in my chest and my heart feels like... well, it's hard to describe, but I just get this feeling that I need to go down there and pray over my being gay. I had been having doubts about the okayness of being gay the time I was at camp. So I'm praying and praying and I'm just asking "Lord. What do You want for me? Who am I? What was I meant to be?" and I could feel deep down in my heart the Lord telling me that the path I was on was not the one he had made for me. I just started balling and asking for forgiveness over and over again. I just felt horrible for ignoring this all those long years and I just prayed and prayed until I was out of tears... and all I could do was smile. Like the world was lifted off my

Gay Christian?

Speeder

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Stand_Up_4_God

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avdl

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imoss

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