Not By Works

[Magenta]

If so I must have missed the post, could you link it or tell me what post it is so I may read it?

Post number 39756, on the previous page, since we have just started a new page

There may even have been other answers given, aside from that one...

 

[Magenta]

Also another answer was given directly above 39756, in 39755

 

[Hizikyah]

DC is this true:

Romans 2:12, “For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law.”

You are not getting what I am saying. Some obey Yah Commands/Law/Instructions/Torah because it is the right way to live, and they want to live for Yah. You seem to ignore this and go straight to justificaion by works. I assume this is why you seem to ignore or not believe many Scriptures like the following;

If not can you tell me your understanding of these 3 passages;

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Post number 39756, on the previous page, since we have just started a new page

There may even have been other answers given, aside from that one...

So here is that post;

I did answer....the law is for the lawless and condemns all who are not found in Christ....

Next!

It does not in anyway touch on any of those 3 passage I asked about. Not even for a second.

 

[PHart]

...sorry your Jesus is weak and inept and cannot keep you as he promised.....you should trust the Jesus of the bible...

This is funny ....you say my believing is me trying to earn my own salvation, yet you tell me to trust Jesus. So, am I to continue believing or continue trusting in Jesus, lol.

 

[PHart]

So here is that post;



It does not in anyway touch on any of those 3 passage I asked about. Not even for a second.

Get used to it. When they get stumped they give non-answers to cover up the fact they can not answer.

 

[Magenta]

So here is that post;

It does not in anyway touch on any of those 3 passage I asked about. Not even for a second.

You asked if a passage about the law was true, and Dcon answered that the law is for the lawless. I am not sure how that equates to not even touching on the passage you asked about when he answered directly. Perhaps you are simply and/or willfully blind.

 

[Magenta]

Get used to it. When they get stumped they give non-answers to cover up the fact they can not answer.

Funny. You have not answered me at all, and now you lie. I suppose this is your idea of keeping the law? I always find it interesting how often people who claim we must keep the law, break it themselves.

 

[Hizikyah]

You asked if a passage about the law was true, and Dcon answered that the law is for the lawless. I am not sure how that equates to not even touching on the passage you asked about when he answered directly. Perhaps you are simply and/or willfully blind.

OK, ther were 3 passages, and at best he touched on one? Come on really? So im wilfully blind, wow... And actually I didnt see a yes or no, or anything concerning THAT passage. Or the other 2....

 

[Magenta]

Even more peculiar is the fact that those some of those same law breakers go
around falsely accusing others of using grace as a license to sin. Curious, that!

 

[Magenta]

OK, ther were 3 passages, and at best he touched on one? Come on really? So im wilfully blind, wow... And actually I didnt see a yes or no, or anything concerning THAT passage. Or the other 2....

Oh my, first you claim he did not even touch on the passages, now you are changing your tune but finding fault with me for pointing out your error? You people never admit when you are wrong, do you? Are you one of those sinless perfectionists?

 

[Hizikyah]

Oh my, first you claim he did not even touch on the passages, now you are changing your tune but finding fault with me for pointing out your error?

No I didnt change my tune, he never touched on it...

You people never admit when you are wrong, do you?

Show me where he answered my question and I will admit, however just because you say he replied does not mean he did, he ignored it and said something not pertaning to the 3 verses and there was not even a yes or no...

OK, ther were 3 passages, and at best he touched on one? Come on really? So im wilfully blind, wow... And actually I didnt see a yes or no, or anything concerning THAT passage. Or the other 2....

Are you one of those sinless perfectionists?

Im not sure what that is, but I have to say no, because only Yahshua was without sin on this earth. and What have I ever said to make you think that I think im sinless?

 

[PHart]

Justification is a one-time event. I say that to you because I saw a post of yours a day or two ago that gave the distinct impression you considered it an ongoing work...

Justification is a one-time event that is completed the moment you believe. And Christ is the rock that holds up that declaration of righteousness (justification). Although the justification Christ secured on our behalf is complete, His sacrifice and ministry that obtained that justification must continually be before God on our behalf holding up the justification it secures. But since he always lives to do that there is no danger of his ministry and sacrifice petering out like a sputtering Sopwith Camel aeroplane in a Snoopy cartoon causing us to lose our justification. That's what was wrong with the Levitical priesthood. It was not sustainable as to keep the worshiper justified, I mean in regard to the things that the law could forgive--Acts 13:39 (some things could not be forgiven through the Levitical priesthood--murder, adultery, etc.).

The only other way Christ can cease interceding before God for our completed and ongoing justification is if we stop believing in Christ. Hebrews 10:26 is clear that if you stop believing and go back in a willful return to the world no sacrifice for sin remains for you. You lose the efficacy of Christ's ministry toward justification. He becomes of no effect to you toward justification if you stop believing in Him for justification and instead turn to something else, or nothing else, to justify you (Galatians 5:2,4).

...while the ongoing work is sanctification through co-operation with the Holy Spirit of God at work in our lives, which follows justification.

Are you aware that you are already sanctified? It also happened the moment you believed. You were set apart for a holy purpose the moment you believed. What is ongoing about it is you are going to now live an entire life acting out your 'set apartness' (your sanctification) in actual deeds until the day you die.

Too many have been tainted and spiritually abused by the institution of the RCC. Some even leave while clinging to RCC heresies, and proclaiming their theology superior to protestant theology. It is interesting and puzzling that they can say they have rejected something they claim to be superior, when it falls so far short of being Biblically sound.

I wouldn't say too many have been tainted by the erroneous Catholic doctrine that says justification happens over and over and over again. I see way more people in the church tainted by the erroneous Protestant doctrine that you can not lose the completed justification that Christ secured for you and keeps secure for you through your continuing believing (Hebrews 7:25).

Christ must continue to minister through his one-time for all time sacrifice for you to stay completely justified as you are now. That's why you have to continue to believe. Believing is what lays hold of his ministry in heaven for you. But too many people in the church thinks the completed justification you have received means you can't lose it, thinking that if you could lose it that means you have to work to keep it. No, you have to continue to believe to keep the completed justification you have in Christ.

 

[PHart]

Funny. You have not answered me at all, and now you lie.

I have not answered you at all? What does that mean, lol?

I suppose this is your idea of keeping the law? I always find it interesting how often people who claim we must keep the law, break it themselves.

If we had to be perfect law upholders to claim that Christians must be obedient to God then we all need to just go home and shut up, lol.

Why do you people get the benefit of Christ's blood for the forgiveness of sin when you screw up but we who also believe in Christ don't get the benefit of Christ's blood when we screw up? You do realize NOBODY in this thread is claiming perfection, and that we are ALL relying on the blood of Christ when we screw up, don't you?

But it is clear to me that some Christians I've met and talked to think reliance on Christ is a license to now watch 'Game of Thrones', for example, with impunity. That's an abuse of grace, and one that Christ will eventually not forgive, because, ultimately, willful sin is nothing more than an abandonment of trust in and a trampling on Christ's blood that justifies. Grace doesn't cover the rejection of Christ's blood. But it does cover the believer who seeks to obey God, even by way of the Mosaic observances by reason of conscience, but comes up short sometimes.

 

[Magenta]

No I didnt change my tune, he never touched on it...

First you say one thing, then you say another, now you revert back
and contradict yourself again. Round and round we go, eh?

Show me where he answered my question and I will admit, however just because you say he replied does not mean he did, he ignored it and said something not pertaning to the 3 verses and there was not even a yes or no...

I was not aware that a yes or no constituted giving commentary. I will keep that in mind. I saw a view given that pertained to the law, which is what the verse you gave was about. Calling it a non-answer is what people do when they do not like the answer given, no matter how relevant the answer may have been.

Im not sure what that is, but I have to say no, because only Yahshua was without sin on this earth. and What have I ever said to make you think that I think im sinless?

Please show me where I gave any indication that I thought you were sinless. LOL. WOW is right. I know you will not be able to, because I said no such thing. I ASKED you IF you were one of those sinless perfectionists, which does not in any way equate to me thinking you are sinless. Sinless perfectionists are those who claim we must keep the law and also say they do. Of course they don't, despite their claims to the contrary. They get caught in their lies often, yet mostly refuse to acknowledge their sins even then.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[/B][/COLOR]They understand perfectly that the law is not for justifying a person, and that the blood of Christ fills in where perfection lacks. So don't you EVER play the 'nobody can keep the law' card again. Not ever. Do you hear me?

Hear you? You can't even understand what people believe, You just proved you have no idea what we believe. So you have no business trying to tell other people what to do. So if I was you I would stop trying to hide behind a dead persons picture and name, and figure out what people believe before you start trying to tell people what to do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

(Why is it you folks get to play the judging card, but we can't?)

I trust in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin. I am most certainly saved. I have the fruit of the Spirit growing in my life as the evidence of that forgiveness. So how is it that you can say I have never believed? But the real question is, WHY are you saying that, since 'believing' is hardly me trying to earn my salvation anyway. I can not believe the church has come to the place where even believing is now a work of the works gospel.



Like I say, just post the passage that says continued believing is a work of the damnable works gospel. Since you can not do that we know that you are teaching a false gospel. This isn't even a matter of a difference of opinion about a passage. You simply have ZERO scripture to support your claim that believing is a work of the damnable works gospel. ZERO.

You can't judge because you are unreliable. You do not even know what people believe,

When you prove you can listen and understand MAYBE then you can be a reliable witness to confront people

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He died so you can uphold the righteousness of the law through the power of the Holy Spirit, not trample it underfoot as if grace was your license to sin.

The Protestant church is not as smart as she thinks she is.

There you go again, proving your l;ack of understanding, Give it up dude, Your a slanderer, No one is giving anyone a license to sin. Repent dude, repent!

 

[Magenta]

[/B][/COLOR]They understand perfectly that the law is not for justifying a person, and that the blood of Christ fills in where perfection lacks. So don't you EVER play the 'nobody can keep the law' card again. Not ever. Do you hear me?

Your answer reminded me of this:



Perhaps you should stop playing the "grace is a license to sin" card

 

[PHart]

Hear you? You can't even understand what people believe, You just proved you have no idea what we believe. So you have no business trying to tell other people what to do. So if I was you I would stop trying to hide behind a dead persons picture and name, and figure out what people believe before you start trying to tell people what to do.

REPEAT....don't EVER play the 'nobody can keep the law' card again. NOBODY here is saying they keep the law perfectly. Got it? They rely on the blood of Christ for forgiveness when they fall short just like the rest of us (well, most of us).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is funny ....you say my believing is me trying to earn my own salvation, yet you tell me to trust Jesus. So, am I to continue believing or continue trusting in Jesus, lol.

You do not believe in jesus, you believe in your ability to continue to believe, your not fooling anyone but yourself.