Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Wrong. God keeps me secure, not me.[/quote\

Flip. - If God keeps you secure, then you are secure forever. You could never lose salvation.

[quoteI access his power to keep me eternally secure through my believing. The necessity for my believing doesn't make me the source of my eternal security. The necessity for my believing is simply how I access that which is secure.

Flop. - It is not God who is keeping you secure, it is you, who is keeping you secure THROUGH YOUR BELIEVING.

There is how you flip flop. Now hopefully everyone can see when they say Phart flip flops. It is true.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God's power is not what is in question here. He's not lying when he talks about his power in salvation. The question is are his people going to continue to believe and trust in the promise of his power and be saved on the Last Day? For it is THROUGH FAITH that God's power keeps us for the Day of Salvation (1 Peter 1:5).

Now you folks can claim the real believer can never stop believing if you want. When your day of trial comes that is when you can sort that question out for yourself. What I want to expose is the ridiculous teaching that says that you having to believe in order get saved is not a work of the damnable works gospel but you having to continue to believe is. What an absurd argument.

Your right, in salvation, it is not in question.

However, in your gospel. It is. Your dependent on Self continuing to believe, and not God keeping you from falling from faith.

As I said yesterday

Faith is the substance of things hope for. The evidence of things not seen.

Our hope is eternal life (Titus) and God can not lie, he promised it before time began (predestination)

John said our faith relays in the knowledge we have eternal life. It's is the doubt we have eternal life which could cause someone to lose faith, And they would lose faith because they never trusted God to begin with. They had mental ascent, not real saving faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think this is what is at the core of Phart's grave error. This is HIS analogy he used in another thread to describe salvation. He truly does NOT believe he, or anyone else, HAS been born again, and HAS the Holy Spirit. He doesn't believe you will be born again UNTIL you actually get to heaven with your "ticket" firmly in hand:

Phart- "If I gave you a coupon for a guaranteed free Lasagna dinner and you lost the ticket does that mean the dinner was never guaranteed?"

PennEd- "Can he lose the lasagna dinner once he has eaten and digested it?"

Phart- "After he gets the Lasagna in the future when he redeems the ticket, no he can not lose it. Until then, he has a foretaste of the Lasagna, and a ticket in his possession that guarantees he will get the full meal when the ticket is presented at the great supper. If he loses the ticket he no get full meal."

I don't know what other conclusion to draw from his analogy other than he is NOT CURRENTLY BORN AGAIN!

This is exactly why he doesn't trust that Jesus' Work is finished. This is why he believes he has to strive to hold onto his salvation. No condescension implied at all, but he truly needs prayer that he will accept Jesus and rest in His finished Work.

same goes with his car analogy, Saying one could break the seal and get out. He is dependent on his own power. And not Gods power to seal him and keep him in (until the day of redemption)

it is all human logic.

 

[gb9]

same goes with his car analogy, Saying one could break the seal and get out. He is dependent on his own power. And not Gods power to seal him and keep him in (until the day of redemption)

it is all human logic.

I guess some must have skipped over Isaiah 55, v. 8 and 9, where God states that his ways are not our ways, his thoughts are not our thoughts.

I heard a pastor say this one time, " it seems as if a lot of people have the idea that they were carrying a A- average , and when they came to Christ, that bumped them up to an A+.

the truth is we are all an F-, Jesus makes us A+."

we were DEAD in out tresspases and sins, but made alive in Christ.

 

[Deacon_D]

Thank you E-g, folks here need to keep hearing the true gospel and when they see a counterfeit gospel it will be clear as day. This is exactly why I say that Phart has a, "Pancake Theology", because he keeps flipping flopping his statements with, "no resolve."

God bless

Can you tell me who the two witnesses are?

 

[TruthTalk]

I think this is what is at the core of Phart's grave error. This is HIS analogy he used in another thread to describe salvation. He truly does NOT believe he, or anyone else, HAS been born again, and HAS the Holy Spirit. He doesn't believe you will be born again UNTIL you actually get to heaven with your "ticket" firmly in hand:

Phart- "If I gave you a coupon for a guaranteed free Lasagna dinner and you lost the ticket does that mean the dinner was never guaranteed?"

PennEd- "Can he lose the lasagna dinner once he has eaten and digested it?"

Phart- "After he gets the Lasagna in the future when he redeems the ticket, no he can not lose it. Until then, he has a foretaste of the Lasagna, and a ticket in his possession that guarantees he will get the full meal when the ticket is presented at the great supper. If he loses the ticket he no get full meal."

I don't know what other conclusion to draw from his analogy other than he is NOT CURRENTLY BORN AGAIN!

This is exactly why he doesn't trust that Jesus' Work is finished. This is why he believes he has to strive to hold onto his salvation. No condescension implied at all, but he truly needs prayer that he will accept Jesus and rest in His finished Work.

Thank you PennEd, I did not see this post between you and Pfart before; but I have asked the same questions about Pfart and why he continues to keep this foolish, "keep yourself saved" counterfeit gospel going. I would like to see Phart come to the knowledge of the truth as well.

 

[VCO]

][/COLOR]No, you must believe to keep it. Believing is how you access the forgiveness of God in Christ's blood. No faith--no forgiveness of God. No forgiveness of God--no protection from the coming Day of Wrath.

The 'do good works' part? That's the result of believing in and receiving God's forgiveness. Just as bad works are the result of not believing in God's forgiveness.

Please, get your facts straight. The difference between believing in Him in your Head, and Believing in Him in your Heart is the same difference between going through the Wide Gate onto the Broad Road to Destruction, OR coming through the Narrow Gate onto the Narrow Difficult Road, that FEW FIND, which leads to Eternal Life. Those on the Broad Road put some or all of their Trust on SELF to keep their Salvation, thus ending up being destroyed in the Lake of Fire; While those on the Narrow Difficult Road put ALL OF THEIR TRUST ON JESUS TO KEEP THEIR SALVATION.


Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.

NO, --- FAITH is part of the FREE GIFT OF GRACE THAT IS NOT OF YOURSELF, IT SAYS SO. YOU MUST HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT in you who POURS GOD'S LOVE INTO YOUR HEART, WHICH KEEPS YOUR FAITH AND LOVE FOR HIM.

GOD'S LOVE IN YOUR HEART IS THE SOURCE OUT OF WHICH EVERYTHING ELSE SPAWNS, INCLUDING OBEDIENCE. NO PATTING YOURSELF ON THE BACK FOR ANY OF IT, ALL THE GLORY BELONGS TO HIM.


Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not from works, so that no one can boast.


Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


WE GET NONE OF THE CREDIT.



[video=youtube;6lqtEOIXHis]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lqtEOIXHis[/video]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I guess some must have skipped over Isaiah 55, v. 8 and 9, where God states that his ways are not our ways, his thoughts are not our thoughts.

I heard a pastor say this one time, " it seems as if a lot of people have the idea that they were carrying a A- average , and when they came to Christ, that bumped them up to an A+.

the truth is we are all an F-, Jesus makes us A+."

we were DEAD in out tresspases and sins, but made alive in Christ.

Amen. You will never, no matter how hard you believe, be worthy of gods love based on how righteous you are.

 

[TruthTalk]

Originally Posted by TruthTalk
Thank you E-g, folks here need to keep hearing the true gospel and when they see a counterfeit gospel it will be clear as day. This is exactly why I say that Phart has a, "Pancake Theology", because he keeps flipping flopping his statements with, "no resolve."

God bless

Can you tell me who the two witnesses are?

"I have no answer to your question

Good morning Mr Deacon, last week I gave notice to this forum that you were going on to my "Ignore List", It is not because you are not a nice person it is because your bible questions to me are confusing and unrelated to the topic being discussed, just like this one.

When I did try to answer your questions before with honest and sincere answers your replies were just more confusing contradictions. Please be well and God bless. Back to, "The Land of Ignore"

 

[PHart]

Yup. I am intimately familiar with all those passages.

Apparently not, if you think that we have the sum total of salvation right now. We have salvation, but only a deposit of what is to come, not the entirety.

But answer this question. Are YOU born again now?

Yes, I am born again. I have the deposit of the Holy Spirit in me. And I have that deposit because I am believing in Christ right now, real time. I'm not relying on a past believing that has ended. The believing I had to do to be saved is still happening right now at this very moment, therefore, I am saved right now this very moment. If I stop believing and, as a result, go back to the world, I will lose the deposit of the Holy Spirit and be lost on the Day of Salvation.

 

[PHart]

Flop. - It is not God who is keeping you secure, it is you, who is keeping you secure THROUGH YOUR BELIEVING.

There is how you flip flop. Now hopefully everyone can see when they say Phart flip flops. It is true.

It is God who is keeping me secure THROUGH MY BELIEVING. The same way my salvation started THROUGH MY BELIEVING.

 

[PHart]

Yup. I am intimately familiar with all those passages.

You seem to have not been aware that the rest of our salvation is yet to come, and that we inherit the rest of our salvation that is still outstanding THROUGH FAITH AND PATIENCE:

11And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, 12so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises." (Hebrews 6:11-12 NASB)

You didn't realize this because the church is not teaching this, and because you are not reading the Bible for yourself, but are reading it through the lens of what you have been taught so you can't see what it actually says. You have been taught that you have it all now and that there is nothing to do or believe from here on out to lay hold of the hope that still awaits us.

24For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it." (Romans 8:24-25 NASB)

 

[TruthTalk]

Originally Posted by PHart;
The 'do good works' part? That's the result of believing in and receiving God's forgiveness. Just as "bad works" are the result of not believing in God's forgiveness.

Please, get your facts straight. The difference between believing in Him in your Head, and Believing in Him in your Heart is the same difference between going through the Wide Gate onto the Broad Road to Destruction, OR coming through the Narrow Gate onto the Narrow Difficult Road, that FEW FIND, which leads to Eternal Life.

This is what is so confusing about Pfart counterfeit gospel; He say's, "The 'do good works' part? ",
"the result of our believing" and then, don't do the, "bad works" "part, which is the result of
"not believing God's forgivness.",

A confusing fake gospel; instead of letting God be in charge of saving our soul, Phart has put human beings in charge of saving your soul, more flip flopping "pancake theology", from Mr. Phart. False gospel = false Savior.

Thank you VCO for this post,

God bess

 

[PHart]

Originally Posted by PHart;3298196[COLOR=#000000[/B]
The 'do good works' part? That's the result of believing in and receiving God's forgiveness. Just as "bad works" are the result of not believing in God's forgiveness.






This is what is so confusing about Pfart counterfeit gospel; He say's, "The 'do good works' part? ", "the result of our believing"
and then, don't do the, "bad works" "part, which is the result of "not believing God's forgivness.", A confusing fake gospel; instead of letting God be in charge of saving our soul, Phart has put human beings in charge of saving your soul, more flip flopping "pancake theology", from Mr. Phart. False gospel = false Savior.

Thank you VCO for this post,

God bess

Originally Posted by PHart;3298196[COLOR=#000000[/B]
]No, you must believe to keep it. Believing is how you access the forgiveness of God in Christ's blood. No faith--no forgiveness of God. No forgiveness of God--no protection from the coming Day of Wrath.

The 'do good works' part? That's the result of believing in and receiving God's forgiveness. Just as bad works are the result of not believing in God's forgiveness.



[/COLOR]

Just post the scripture that says 'believing' is a work of the damnable works gospel and you will have made your point. So far no one has done that, yet they continue their rhetoric about how 'believing' is me trying to save myself by my own works. You have no credible argument until you can produce some scripture that shows us believing is an evil work of self righteousness. Surely chapter and verse should be right at your fingertips. Post it.

 

[gb9]

You seem to have not been aware that the rest of our salvation is yet to come, and that we inherit the rest of our salvation that is still outstanding THROUGH FAITH AND PATIENCE:

11And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, 12so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises." (Hebrews 6:11-12 NASB)

You didn't realize this because the church is not teaching this, and because you are not reading the Bible for yourself, but are reading it through the lens of what you have been taught so you can't see what it actually says. You have been taught that you have it all now and that there is nothing to do or believe from here on out to lay hold of the hope that still awaits us.

24For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it." (Romans 8:24-25 NASB)

Romans 8 v.18-25 is speaking of the waiting of creation on the new earth, not about receiving salvation at some future time. context, man context.

 

[PHart]

Romans 8 v.18-25 is speaking of the waiting of creation on the new earth, not about receiving salvation at some future time. context, man context.

Here, read this:

"5For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness." (Galatians 5:5 NASB)

But you people think you have it all now, because that's what you have been taught and which causes you to not see what the Bible actually says about this matter. And since you think you have it all now you think you don't have to do or think or believe anything from here on out to get what remains outstanding in our salvation.

Context, context, gb9. That's means the context of the WHOLE Bible.

 

[TruthTalk]

Just post the scripture that says 'believing' is a work of the damnable works gospel and you will have made your point. So far no one has done that, yet they continue their rhetoric about how 'believing' is me trying to save myself by my own works. You have no credible argument until you can produce some scripture that shows us believing is an evil work of self righteousness. Surely chapter and verse should be right at your fingertips. Post it.

Epheasians2:1

"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,"

Dead men cannot believe,, that is why people are continually admonishing you to cease your false gospel. Believing in Christ for our eternal salvation is a work of God from the beginning to our glorification.

"Any goodness that comes from you or myself is a result of what God has done", you have flipped the gospel to make it all about what you have done.

 

[Deacon_D]

Epheasians2:1

"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,"

Dead men cannot believe,, that is why people are continually admonishing you to cease your false gospel. Believing in Christ for our eternal salvation is a work of God from the beginning to our glorification.

"Any goodness that comes from you or myself is a result of what God has done", you have flipped the gospel to make it all about what you have done.

Do you believe your going to get your next meal if you just sIt in a chair at the table and believe? Lots of luck.

 

[gb9]

Here, read this:

"5For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness." (Galatians 5:5 NASB)

But you people think you have it all now, because that's what you have been taught and which causes you to not see what the Bible actually says about this matter. And since you think you have it all now you think you don't have to do or think or believe anything from here on out to get what remains outstanding in our salvation.

Context, context, gb9. That's means the context of the WHOLE Bible.

here we have a classic argument tactic- instead of addressing your error about Romans 8 18 - being about receiving salvation at some future time, when it is actually about the new creation, you throw out a random verse, once again with no context.

you seem to be here to push a works-based salvation., oh and by the way, I have read the Bible cover to cover about 16-18 times so, I know what the whole thing says. you want to chop it into pieces and build theology around the pieces.

 

[TruthTalk]

"Buckwheat Pancake Theology"

It looks good, tastes good and with lots of butter and maple syrup they will make you fat, but they can never ever save your soul.

A counterfeit gospel is a counterfeit Christ, which can never save the human soul, but "God Can"