Not By Works
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J
joefizz
Guest
well noone has said that we are to do nothing after being saved the point that is being established is "what saves is it works or is it faith"?
works do not save a person under grace of Jesus only accepting Jesus and asking for our soul to be saved by God,is how one can get saved,it's not a free pass to do whatever or do nothing,it is a gift,after being saved everyone is to still do right for God,by doing what they can even more so than when they weren't saved,I really don't see what point you are trying to make,let me be more clear on what we have agreed on so far...
1.Salvation is through Jesus
2.one is not to be idle or unremorsefully sinful
3.we all sin and have sinned
just what is your point you are trying to establish?
Because it looks like we agree yet somehow you don't agree after agreeing.
J
joefizz
Guest
2 out of 4 isn't bad Peter,noone aside from children are "pure and holy" that's biblical fact.
J
joefizz
Guest
now now d don't tempt others unto death even if the cake looks delicious lol!
I remember the Jim Jones' tragedy like it was yesterday and I was born again and baptized in the same year 1978. I'm not saying anyone here is a Jim Jones, but what I will shout to heaven about are false teacher's because the will lead God's Children astray. Run don't walk to the nearest exit if you find yourself in a false church. And do not say oh they were so loving that I just had to stay.
The deceptions are very convincing. I have never forgotten The Jim Jones tragedy.
Quote:
In our lifetime, recently we have all lived through an incredible tragedy. That tragedy has become known simply for human history as Jonestown. And if anyone ever needed an illustration of a false prophet, Jim Jones certainly provides that illustration; for we can see in him the character, the teaching, the lifestyle, the approach of a false prophet.
He used the Bible, quoting it very often, but perverting it to his own ends. He gave away anointed gifts, miracle blessings, prayer cloths, and always demanded money in return.” Another ploy used by many false prophets. “He was in it for the money. He was utterly, totally consumed with a preoccupation toward sex, and not only sex in a sinful way, but sex in a deviant way. He lied, constantly and continually, about everything.”
Such is Jim Jones. And yet in all of that, he was so deceiving that he deceived everybody from Mrs. Jimmy Carter right on down to a thousand people who wound up as corpses in a jungle in Guyana. And he deceived all kinds of people in between, senators, and congressmen, and state assemblymen, and governors, and everybody else who gave him plaques, and honors, and awards as a great civic and religious leader.
The deceptions are very convincing. I have never forgotten The Jim Jones tragedy.
Quote:
In our lifetime, recently we have all lived through an incredible tragedy. That tragedy has become known simply for human history as Jonestown. And if anyone ever needed an illustration of a false prophet, Jim Jones certainly provides that illustration; for we can see in him the character, the teaching, the lifestyle, the approach of a false prophet.
He used the Bible, quoting it very often, but perverting it to his own ends. He gave away anointed gifts, miracle blessings, prayer cloths, and always demanded money in return.” Another ploy used by many false prophets. “He was in it for the money. He was utterly, totally consumed with a preoccupation toward sex, and not only sex in a sinful way, but sex in a deviant way. He lied, constantly and continually, about everything.”
Such is Jim Jones. And yet in all of that, he was so deceiving that he deceived everybody from Mrs. Jimmy Carter right on down to a thousand people who wound up as corpses in a jungle in Guyana. And he deceived all kinds of people in between, senators, and congressmen, and state assemblymen, and governors, and everybody else who gave him plaques, and honors, and awards as a great civic and religious leader.
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Brothers and Sisters,
After centuries of falsities, schemes of men, the backdoor deals of charlatans, we have clearly been shown the light!!
Where the church has erred through the centuries is that they focused on God too much, and not enough on themselves.
Sadly Robert Hay, we are. We are now to focus on ourselves now and not so much on the One who died for us. We are too special to focus on God as much as we do ourselves. Look at how pretty we are.
Its not like God died for us or anything. Its not like we are that bad. Shoot, we are actually good ppl at our core.
And God does good things for good ppl, because He owes it to us. Its found in 2 Stutterings 3:16.
Yes we are Ms. Jackson. We are to focus on ourselves now. Forget about God. Its not like He sustains our lives.
In closing, the Romanist said it best about this ideology...
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.[Romans 1:20-25]
After centuries of falsities, schemes of men, the backdoor deals of charlatans, we have clearly been shown the light!!
Where the church has erred through the centuries is that they focused on God too much, and not enough on themselves.
Sadly Robert Hay, we are. We are now to focus on ourselves now and not so much on the One who died for us. We are too special to focus on God as much as we do ourselves. Look at how pretty we are.
Its not like God died for us or anything. Its not like we are that bad. Shoot, we are actually good ppl at our core.
And God does good things for good ppl, because He owes it to us. Its found in 2 Stutterings 3:16.
Yes we are Ms. Jackson. We are to focus on ourselves now. Forget about God. Its not like He sustains our lives.
In closing, the Romanist said it best about this ideology...
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.[Romans 1:20-25]
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P
PHart
Guest
That is exactly what he's trying to say: ALL Christians are 'loving, humble, pure and Holy'. You didn't just receive a legal declaration of righteousness when you got saved. You literally received the righteousness of God from God through the giving of the Holy Spirit. It's not just a legal standing of righteousness. But the church at large has accepted a gospel that says we are only righteous legally, on paper but doomed to be slaves to sin to the day we die, "so stop judging me", they say.Originally Posted by PeterJensloving, humble, pure and Holy
And so we live angry, loveless, defeated, fruitless, worldly lives while we take a misguided comfort in our legal status alone, which actually just perpetuates the lie we live. This clearly is not the gospel that the Bible teaches. Clearly! But the truth is almost gone from the church concerning this. And so we have a complacent, worldly church that really doesn't look or act any different than the world except that we are sure we're okay with God and they are not.
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P
PHart
Guest
and meanwhile, some want to take up a false moral high ground, act like and think that they do not sin, talk down and shout down judgement on others, like they have all the answers.
they ( you ) do not understand simple Biblical truths - like this - justification and sanctification are , while they can occur at the time of conversion, i.e., a 20 year smoker never smokes again, they in most cases do not. sanctification is usually a process.
which is why we should not judge. not you, not me, not anyone. God can 100% judge fairly because he knows all. you do not.
Brothers and Sisters,
After centuries of falsities, schemes of men, the backdoor deals of charlatans, we have clearly been shown the light!!
Where the church has erred through the centuries is that they focused on God too much, and not enough on themselves.
Sadly Robert Hay, we are. We are now to focus on ourselves now and not so much on the One who died for us. We are too special to focus on God as much as we do ourselves. Look at how pretty we are.
Its not like God died for us or anything. Its not like we are that bad. Shoot, we are actually good ppl at our core.
And God does good things for good ppl, because He owes it to us. Its found in 2 Stutterings 3:16.
Yes we are Ms. Jackson. We are to focus on ourselves now. Forget about God. Its not like He sustains our lives.
In closing, the Romanist said it best about this ideology...
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.[Romans 1:20-25]
This is why God gave some people Joel Osteen: as judgment upon them for embracing a false gospel, so he continues to scratch their itching ears by continuing to deceive them with a false gospel, all about them; 2 Timothy 4:1ff.
Yep, they heap teachers to themselves, after their own lusts. It has become all about them, what they want, their own lusts, covetousness and idolatry, thus God sent them a smiling false prophet to deceive them even further.
By the way, which Robert Hay are you referring to?
Oh, Robert Hays. I looked up Robert Hay and found a few characters.
In heaven it will no longer be an issue.Some dark chocolates are just plain worth every delicious cheating bite:
Here I wish folks found the word of God as appealing. So good as to lack sufficient superlatives to describe each succulent letter of each word.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You are suffering from the term absolutes, or perfection, or it must be this or nothing.
And also you are confusing Holy and defiled with possible future defilement denies current
holiness.
We are holy when we have confessed our sin and been cleansed through the blood of Christ.
It does not mean we will sin and be defiled again or we will not, it means we are clean.
Some cannot accept this simple reality of holiness and cleansing.
Jesus is saying to you and me, sin with communion with Him is not inevitable. What I hear
is yes it is, so stop trying to believe you can walk with Christ and accept we are fallen and
lost, and it is all futile. But that is the world speaking not Jesus.
Now salvation is not about the righteous walk but the relationship, a living caring, breathing
relationship founded in Holiness. It is the fruit of this that brings the walk and overcoming,
that pumps in love and transformation, that orders emotions and responses.
So many are in unbelief, and closed minded. Peter rebelled and denied Jesus. What was Jesus's
prayer? Not that he repented but that he did not lose faith. It is faith and trust, knowing as
repentant sinners God will walk with us, through our frailty, with a great deal of patience and love,
working through each issue slowly.
Sin is a distraction, an excuse, action caused by frustration, hurt and a lack of knowing Gods
intention. We can use sin to hide from the hurts of failure, our hope of aspiring to love and then
be rejected is very hard. But do you love Jesus? Not a little, but with everything you are?
Then you should be able to risk this and start to praise and burn like a light for Him.
Sin is always the selfish soothing for disappointment, something taken rather than earnt,
revenge against some action or slight not deserved.
You need to see spiritual wisdom, the source of our life is God, the part of the vine which
is the Body of Christ, the thing that gives us all that we have. Amen.
a small note - sin never lingers in the background, fear of disappointment does.
Sin are actions, either forgiven and dealt with or unresolved or else not there.
We have a Jim Jones in our Church as well. One day when he left Church he forgot to take his bible off of the roof of his car. Later as we were leaving my wife spotted something in the street, it was Jim Jones bible, not all Jones' are the same. Hey do you know why there are so many Jones' in the telephone book.....because they all have telephones.....
Imagine a faith that says, man is so sinful, you need to replace him with a new copy,
new body, new mind, new spirit, so nothing of the person is left.
That is just human replacement.
So along comes a theology. A new spirit from God and nothing in this present life or
body is acceptable to God other than this new spirit which is perfect, from God, is our
true selves, and when a new body comes, we are perfect. This is just a faith of total
replacement, not transformation or new birth of a person into the Kingdom of Christ.
And to even question or put these beliefs and positions under the spotlight is foolish for some.
The foolish are those who believe God will resurrect them, which they have never seen
and is purely on trust, while denying the very words of the God who will do this.
God is saving us, transforming us into His Holy people, transformation not replacement,
purifying and making Holy that which has been defiled by sin.
So you can put too much emphasis on Gods work, and not see His purpose in His people.
Now are you part of the Kingdom or not? Well how you react and respond to Gods word
determines who you are listening to and where your loyalties lie.
Unbelief my friends is believing you are too far gone, too sinful, too confused or brutal or
damaged for love to change you. I know this is not true, and testimonies throughout
history have shown no one cannot be changed by the Lord, if you start trusting Him.
The cross is His statement of commitment and dedication. It is not an arbitary legalistic
paying a debt, it is shedding a life, all that He is, taking the worst man could throw at
the Holy pure King, and saying, I forgive you, learn of me and walk in my ways and I will
change you. What a King, what a Lord, what a saviour.
And some will spit blood rather than believe and do this. Because religion runs deep in
them, they have spent their lives in churches, living too faced lives, and only when they
got chucked out, did they suddenly see the light it is "evil". A mirror image faith is still
as empty as the original, if you condemn one, you are condemning the other as well.
The only truth is honesty and openness from the heart walking in Jesus's ways empowered
by the Holy Spirit. And it is hard, because only those in the Kingdom can walk this road.
So brothers and sisters take heart to our calling, because great is the love Christ has for
us, and to Him alone do we listen. Amen.
new body, new mind, new spirit, so nothing of the person is left.
That is just human replacement.
So along comes a theology. A new spirit from God and nothing in this present life or
body is acceptable to God other than this new spirit which is perfect, from God, is our
true selves, and when a new body comes, we are perfect. This is just a faith of total
replacement, not transformation or new birth of a person into the Kingdom of Christ.
And to even question or put these beliefs and positions under the spotlight is foolish for some.
The foolish are those who believe God will resurrect them, which they have never seen
and is purely on trust, while denying the very words of the God who will do this.
God is saving us, transforming us into His Holy people, transformation not replacement,
purifying and making Holy that which has been defiled by sin.
So you can put too much emphasis on Gods work, and not see His purpose in His people.
Now are you part of the Kingdom or not? Well how you react and respond to Gods word
determines who you are listening to and where your loyalties lie.
Unbelief my friends is believing you are too far gone, too sinful, too confused or brutal or
damaged for love to change you. I know this is not true, and testimonies throughout
history have shown no one cannot be changed by the Lord, if you start trusting Him.
The cross is His statement of commitment and dedication. It is not an arbitary legalistic
paying a debt, it is shedding a life, all that He is, taking the worst man could throw at
the Holy pure King, and saying, I forgive you, learn of me and walk in my ways and I will
change you. What a King, what a Lord, what a saviour.
And some will spit blood rather than believe and do this. Because religion runs deep in
them, they have spent their lives in churches, living too faced lives, and only when they
got chucked out, did they suddenly see the light it is "evil". A mirror image faith is still
as empty as the original, if you condemn one, you are condemning the other as well.
The only truth is honesty and openness from the heart walking in Jesus's ways empowered
by the Holy Spirit. And it is hard, because only those in the Kingdom can walk this road.
So brothers and sisters take heart to our calling, because great is the love Christ has for
us, and to Him alone do we listen. Amen.
While were one the subject of names, how did you come up with a screen name like PHart, and isn't your avatar a photo of Phil Hartman the comedian, and a dead man. I've always wondered why you chose that name, maybe you want to be an internet comedian possibly.....