Not By Works

[AbigailZeke]

But Jesus came to earth to walk among men to show walking acceptably before the Father
is not impossible and not out of reach, just a narrow path.

His walk started with the virgin birth. Something pretty much impossible for us all.

 

[dalok6800]

well that's the thing, right?

I would like to think so.

 

[dalok6800]

It's possible to grow in Christ, BUT it's also still possible to stumble and sin. We are sinful mortals in a fallen mortal world. Think about it: if we were IMMORTALS in a mortal world, would we fare any better? I don't think so because it's impossible for perfect people to live in an evil imperfect world tainted by sin.

I never said anything about not sinning

 

[dalok6800]

Well, of course we are to believe. But the devil can destroy that belief, too.. if we let him..

So what happens to someone, who, lets the devil destroy their belief?

 

[dalok6800]

Hi AbigailZeke, nice to meet you, you've been here for awhile and seen many posts, what do you think is the cause of, merited righteousness. Jesus told His disciple's the greatest in God's kingdom will be like a servant, waiting on table's, and humble yourself before the Lord and He will lift you up. I agree with sovereignGrace post, "God fights our battle's we just need to get behind the shield of faith", (God's gift to believer's).

"Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you." James4:10

If God intended to fight every battle for us, he would not have given us all an offensive weapon called the sword of the Spirit.
David never talked about the giant like the rest did, he spoke to the giant. We do not talk about the mountains, Jesus said we should speak to the mountains and through personal faith, they will be gathered up and tossed into the sea. God does not fight for us directly. He does not respond to us waiting around on him to move on our behalf. God responds to our faith and then he moves on our behalf. This is why it confuses me when people say Jesus Faith saves and then grows us. Jesus' own faith got him through his race and he now sits at the right hand. Jesus already demonstrated his own personal faith and God moved on his behalf. It is time for the body to wake up and move through their own personal faith. This is the kind of faith that pleases God! The shield of faith can be just as much an offensive weapons as it is a defensive weapon. For faith to be offensive it must be moving forward. Faith is like a car, it moves, it does not stay parked.

 

[TruthTalk]

Hello TruthTalk! Nice to meet you too. For one, pride. Two, and more importantly, veil that's not lifted. Unbelief.

"But their minds were closed. For to this day the same veil remains at the reading of the old covenant. It has not been lifted, because only in Christ can it be removed." 2 Corinthians 3:14

And yeah I have been here for quite awhile (old account) actually. Around 10 years in total (on and off though).

I understand why this (imputed righteousness) is so hard to believe for some because I used to think it was heretic too. Lol. But thank Jesus for new days.

I understand, Pride and unbelief. I made a public announcement here on this thread and on the newcomers thread that I was here 5 years ago posting from Thailand and then my wife and I moved back to California. My leaving CC was in good standing, and I was never banned. So I started a new account, same screen name, with a new computer and email address because I could not login to my old account. Yes trusting in Jesus makes everyday better.

 

[AbigailZeke]

I understand, Pride and unbelief. I made a public announcement here on this thread and on the newcomers thread that I was here 5 years ago posting from Thailand and then my wife and I moved back to California. My leaving CC was in good standing, and I was never banned. So I started a new account, same screen name, with a new computer and email address because I could not login to my old account. Yes trusting in Jesus makes everyday better.

You lived in Thailand? I know there is / are CC staff / s based in Thailand (maybe not anymore though, not sure). Do you happen to be that person?

And Thai food is the best. Seriously. Well, maybe second to Korean.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Well, to me, there are different kinds of unbelief. For example, there is the believer who loses a friend or family member to murder or accident. They have believed in God, but now their child is gone and so they wonder "how could God let this happen" because they can't fathom how a loving God could allow such a heinous tragedy. Their mind and faith simply can't handle it so they lose (misplace) faith for awhile, until they're clear headed enough to look at the situation and see what good God has made from it.

Then there are the ones who believe in God, but have fallen so far away that they can't see or hear Him, and they feel He has deserted them. Then the devil creeps in and whispers "you're not worth it. God doesn't love. He doesn't care if you live or die, you rotten piece of scum".. These are the people who listen and take heed to what satan tells them, and they stop trusting and believing in God altogether..

The difference is, in the first example, the person who lost a child to murder, was able to later go back and assess the situation and see that God brought something positive from it. Maybe their child was an organ donor, and there was a person in hospital who desperately needed one of the deceased's vital organs. Yes, the parent would be devastated that their child died, but wouldn't they also be glad that their child's death wasn't in vain, particularly if it saved another person's life?

In my second example, that person is just so totally lost and alone and hurt. They have no protection from the devil. What he says makes sense to them. If God loves them, why did he allow (insert situation) to happen and why isn't He helping and where is He? That is the person who admits defeat to the devil, and doesn't care enough to fight to regain his or her belief in God. So they remain in that pity bog with the devil forever and in turn, forsake their belief, faith and Christian status forever.

So what happens to someone, who, lets the devil destroy their belief?

 

[dalok6800]

a question- getting drunk is s sin. so, if someone says that they are a believer, but still struggles with drunkenness, is that person a willful unsaved sinner, or are they a true believer struggling with a addictive sin ( or the flesh, however you want to phrase it ).

how would you know the difference?

pet, hidden,open sin, addiction or addictions are simply the symptoms and/or masks of much larger issues. Behind every pet, hidden,open sin and addiction there is usually a very deep hurt, offense, pain, trauma, or worse. The issue we have in the church today is that nobody wants to admit that the struggle in certain areas is for real for fear of getting shot or worse. Until the church can mature to the point af admitting people struggle and that struggle is real, nobody gets out alive.

 

[AbigailZeke]

pet, hidden,open sin, addiction or addictions are simply the symptoms and/or masks of much larger issues. Behind every pet, hidden,open sin and addiction there is usually a very deep hurt, offense, pain, trauma, or worse. The issue we have in the church today is that nobody wants to admit that the struggle in certain areas is for real for fear of getting shot or worse. Until the church can mature to the point af admitting people struggle and that struggle is real, nobody gets out alive.

Reminds me of something in the bible that talks about the root of oppression or something like that. It had something to do with fear but I can't remember, for the life of me. Let me search it.

 

[dalok6800]

Well, to me, there are different kinds of unbelief. For example, there is the believer who loses a friend or family member to murder or accident. They have believed in God, but now their child is gone and so they wonder "how could God let this happen" because they can't fathom how a loving God could allow such a heinous tragedy. Their mind and faith simply can't handle it so they lose (misplace) faith for awhile, until they're clear headed enough to look at the situation and see what good God has made from it.

Then there are the ones who believe in God, but have fallen so far away that they can't see or hear Him, and they feel He has deserted them. Then the devil creeps in and whispers "you're not worth it. God doesn't love. He doesn't care if you live or die, you rotten piece of scum".. These are the people who listen and take heed to what satan tells them, and they stop trusting and believing in God altogether..

The difference is, in the first example, the person who lost a child to murder, was able to later go back and assess the situation and see that God brought something positive from it. Maybe their child was an organ donor, and there was a person in hospital who desperately needed one of the deceased's vital organs. Yes, the parent would be devastated that their child died, but wouldn't they also be glad that their child's death wasn't in vain, particularly if it saved another person's life?

In my second example, that person is just so totally lost and alone and hurt. They have no protection from the devil. What he says makes sense to them. If God loves them, why did he allow (insert situation) to happen and why isn't He helping and where is He? That is the person who admits defeat to the devil, and doesn't care enough to fight to regain his or her belief in God. So they remain in that pity bog with the devil forever and in turn, forsake their belief, faith and Christian status forever.

So if someone forsakes their belief, faith and Christian status forever, are you saying they lost their salvation?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

That's a contradiction. HOW can we be saints who still sin, if we're NOT sinful in Christ? And I'm not trying to be hostile to Peter.. but if I have to go get some examples of his insults, I will.

nope

the contradiction is your own post

YOU said sinner

have you read the NT?

Paul calls everyone he writes to, with the exception of the Galatians, SAINTS

it's in the Bible

ps...what on earth does sinful in Christ mean? you don't have to answer if you can't or if you do not want to

that is where I got it from

listen...I can provide insults from almost every page in this thread

that is not what I asked for...I said please supply posts from people who say you must work for salvation

like I said, crickets chirping

 

[dalok6800]

Reminds me of something in the bible that talks about the root of oppression or something like that. It had something to do with fear but I can't remember, for the life of me. Let me search it.

AZ,
Is it Heb 12:15?

[SUP]15 [/SUP]See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

For NONE are righteous.. Jesus says so.. He also says "for ALL have sinned, and ALL fall short of the glory of God."

I'm getting worried here

if you are saved, you ARE righteous

that is the point of salvation

if you are not righteous, then you are not saved

you really have not read much of this thread

then again, it is in the New Testament

 

[blue_ladybug]

If they are saved, they're saved for all time. God judges our hearts, and he knows the minds and hearts of those people and why they did or did not stop believing.. Keep in mind, Jesus died for the unbelievers and believers alike.

So if someone forsakes their belief, faith and Christian status forever, are you saying they lost their salvation?

 

[dalok6800]

If they are saved, they're saved for all time. God judges our hearts, and he knows the minds and hearts of those people and why they did or did not stop believing.. Keep in mind, Jesus died for the unbelievers and believers alike.

Thank you. I hope I was not rude in my response. I was not trying to put words in your mouth, I was just needing you to clarify and you did.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

His walk started with the virgin birth. Something pretty much impossible for us all.

I'm really not taking sides in this squirrel fight

I am just reacting to some of the posts

like the above

God sent the Holy Spirit when Jesus ascended into heaven

He did that to ENABLE us to walk before Him, to be led of His Spirit and produce a life that illustrates the fact that we now have Christ in us by the Spirit of God

maybe some of the offbeat answers being given are the result of a lack of knowledge of scripture

I don't know

but to say Jesus was born of a virgin in a way that suggests anyone thinks we should emulate Jesus in that manner is silly beyond belief

further...even Jesus didn't walk at His birth (just in keeping with your post)

 

[AbigailZeke]

AZ,
Is it Heb 12:15?

[SUP]15 [/SUP]See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.

Ah yes, this. Thank you. I'll use the KJV for the point I will make on this post.

"Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;"

Acts 8:23 NKJV

"For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."

I'm just thinking out loud but I think there's some significance there. Looking at the order of events, one first falls short of the grace of God. Then, bitter root grows up. Once poisoned by bitterness, then bondage comes in.

If we go deeper, we can see what falling short of the grace of God might be talking about.

Galatians 5:4
"You who are trying to be justified by the Law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

 

[BillG]

pet, hidden,open sin, addiction or addictions are simply the symptoms and/or masks of much larger issues. Behind every pet, hidden,open sin and addiction there is usually a very deep hurt, offense, pain, trauma, or worse. The issue we have in the church today is that nobody wants to admit that the struggle in certain areas is for real for fear of getting shot or worse. Until the church can mature to the point af admitting people struggle and that struggle is real, nobody gets out alive.

Thank you for raising the above.
Your post is spot on.

I can speak from experience given the above.

But oh for a church where we care and love each other, walk with each other
The tendency is to shoot our wounded rather than nurse them back to health.

I find it amazing that if a person who came to church who wasn't a believer and it became apparent they had an addiction, believers in the church give every effort we have to help and console them that God can work and heal them.

Yet there are believers in our church who struggle and for the same reasons, yet they feel they can't be honest and open up of fear of condemnation. That is why our fellow soldiers go missing in action.

It breaks my heart, it truly does.

Thanks for your great post.

Bill

 

[dalok6800]

Ah yes, this. Thank you. I'll use the KJV for the point I will make on this post.

"Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;"

Acts 8:23 NKJV

"For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."

I'm just thinking out loud but I think there's some significance there. Looking at the order of events, one first falls short of the grace of God. Then, bitter root grows up. Once poisoned by bitterness, then bondage comes in.

If we go deeper, we can see what falling short of the grace of God might be talking about.

Galatians 5:4
"You who are trying to be justified by the Law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

Sorry, I normally do not use the NIV, my Bible gateway was up and on the wrong version.