Not By Works

blue_ladybug · Sep 14, 2017

Whenever it rains hard here and there is a rainbow, I think of God's promise.

Especially since the building I live in, has it's foundation LITERALLY built INTO the river and whenever the river reaches the height of the basement windows, it floods the basement and knocks out all the electrical stuff. :/ Last time it flooded, everyone in my building got evacuated at 1 a.m. in the morning, so I asked God to send his angels to cover the building. I'm pretty sure if I could see beyond the veil just a teeny bit, I'd see gigantic angel wings covering this entire building.

I LOVE rainbows, but I absolutely hate how society has perverted the rainbow colors to stand for gay pride. A few churches here in my town, proudly display the gay pride flag on their front doors. :/ Those are churches that I refuse to go to for Sunday services. I don't think God would blame me for that..

dcontroversal said:

AbigailZeke · Sep 14, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Ah there is another promise I remember when I see rainbows.

"This is like the days of Noah to me: as I swore that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth, so I have sworn that I will not be angry with you, and will not rebuke you."

Isaiah 54:9

PeterJens · Sep 14, 2017

dcontroversal said:

The problem with your approach is its like toffee paper.
Your argument is once it sticks to you, you can never get rid of it.

So if the gospel is easy to get into ( which I actually find totally untrue )
then why is it not easy to get out of.

Once a "...." always a "....." was a phrase used of the major religions.

And it seems to me, though you say it is simple to come to faith, you claim
I have not and millions of other believers. So inherently you must be lying,
or else they would all be believers destined for heaven no matter what.

What you have got is a belief system that changes depending on the person
you are talking to. That is why I call it heresy and junk.

You are soooooo certain you know what you are following yet at point 1
following Christ you fall flat on your face.

Suggests to me you are just into delusion.

zeroturbulence · Sep 14, 2017

AbigailZeke said:

Yes, God said the rainbow will always be a sign of his covenant with the earth.

God said, “This is the sign of the covenant which I am making between Me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all successive generations; I set My bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between Me and the earth. “It shall come about, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow will be seen in the cloud, and I will remember My covenant, which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and never again shall the water become a flood to destroy all flesh.

(Genesis 9:12-15 NASB)

dalok6800 · Sep 14, 2017

dcontroversal said:

It seems you both are saying Abraham was justified for his personal faith and personal belief. I think you guys may just disagree about which event righteousness was imputed/credited to him based on his personal faith and personal belief.

Romans 4 says it was before circumcision. So when was righteousness imputed to him?
Genesis 12 says it was when he took "a step" and left Haran.

For it to be credited as righteousness through personal faith and personal belief he had to take "a step" and move towards the promise.

So we see Abraham had personal faith, personal belief and responded in personal Obedience to what God told to him do to obtain the promise and then it was credited to him as righteousness.

Maybe the real question is this. Do we define Abraham taking a step towards the promise and out of Haran as "a work" unto obedience to the promise or just state it is defined as the blind faith of God that was given to him?

Furthermore, would righteousness been credited to him through his personal faith and personal belief if he stayed in Haran or did, responding to his own personal faith and belief in obedience to what God said seal the deal?

I have to believe that Instant, instinctual, obedience is the direct byproduct of personal faith and belief to what God has said for us to do

PeterJens · Sep 14, 2017

Here is a weird connection

These guys want to associate themselves with Abraham yet Abraham is described like this

Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions.
Gen 26:5

Now they guys do not want to keep Gods commands, they claim it is impossible, yet have
the same faith which is reconned as righteousness.

I think whatever faith they do have, it is not the same as Abrahams.
Their faith is the faith on the back of a cigarette packet invented for chumps.

dalok6800 · Sep 14, 2017

PHart said:

It seems you both are saying Abraham was justified for his personal faith and personal belief. I think you guys may just disagree about which event righteousness was imputed/credited to him based on his personal faith and personal belief.

Romans 4 says it was before circumcision. So when was righteousness imputed to him?
Genesis 12 says it was when he took "a step" and left Haran.

For it to be credited as righteousness through personal faith and personal belief he had to take "a step" and move towards the promise.

So we see Abraham had personal faith, personal belief and responded in personal Obedience to what God told to him do to obtain the promise and then it was credited to him as righteousness.

Maybe the real question is this. Do we define Abraham taking a step towards the promise and out of Haran as "a work" unto obedience to the promise or just state it is defined as the blind faith of God that was given to him?

Furthermore, would righteousness been credited to him through his personal faith and personal belief if he stayed in Haran or did, responding to his own personal faith and belief in obedience to what God said seal the deal?

I have to believe that Instant, instinctual, obedience is the direct byproduct of personal faith and belief to what God has said for us to do

AbigailZeke · Sep 14, 2017

PeterJens said:

I'm more concerned about how 'undoing' what Jesus has done seems to be much easier (for the others) than 'undoing' what Adam did.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 14, 2017

AbigailZeke said:

men!, Getting there was not easy, Christ paid a pretty hefty price. It is sad that people think the price of redemption was easy.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 14, 2017

dalok6800 said:

It seems you both are saying Abraham was justified for his personal faith and personal belief. I think you guys may just disagree about which event righteousness was imputed/credited to him based on his personal faith and personal belief.

Romans 4 says it was before circumcision. So when was righteousness imputed to him?
Genesis 12 says it was when he took "a step" and left Haran.

For it to be credited as righteousness through personal faith and personal belief he had to take "a step" and move towards the promise.

So we see Abraham had personal faith, personal belief and responded in personal Obedience to what God told to him do to obtain the promise and then it was credited to him as righteousness.

Maybe the real question is this. Do we define Abraham taking a step towards the promise and out of Haran as "a work" unto obedience to the promise or just state it is defined as the blind faith of God that was given to him?

Furthermore, would righteousness been credited to him through his personal faith and personal belief if he stayed in Haran or did, responding to his own personal faith and belief in obedience to what God said seal the deal?

I have to believe that Instant, instinctual, obedience is the direct byproduct of personal faith and belief to what God has said for us to do

I see Abraham was declared righteous in Gen 15, not Gen 12.

I do not see him as declared because he took a step, he was declared because he trusted God, period. if it was because he took a step first, God would have told us in Gen 15, and not left that out. .

dcontroversal · Sep 14, 2017

PeterJens said:

Nothing you say carries any weight with me...a man that rejects the cross as insufficient, states the imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat little trick that does not work and calls the faith and assurance found in Christ an idol has lost any and all credibility when it comes to their view on the bible....so......nothing really to address with you until you start acknowledging the truth.

AND the bolded is a lie....I have been consistent in my stance since I have been on this site.....

dcontroversal · Sep 14, 2017

dalok6800 said:

The micro second he believed.....

Abraham believed GOD and it was put to his account for righteousness.

"The step" was the result of the faith he already had which had justified.....

Anything blended with faith to justify before God renders that faith void....Paul covers this in Galatians...it is faith alone that justifies before GOD....we can clearly see the faith that justified Abraham in the fact that he took a step.....lest we forget...HE went looking for a city whose builder and maker is GOD...he never found that city, but died in faith believing he would see that city....

And for the record....no one has stated that a believer will not work, bear fruit or serve...<---these are the results of the faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ.....

Before GOD faith alone justifies <--Paul in Romans
Before MEN the faith that justifies before God is seen in our works <---James in James

AbigailZeke · Sep 14, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

dcontroversal said:

Some people just can't believe how far Jesus has gone for them.

Romans 4:8 is probably blasphemous to them lol

How blessed is the person whose sins the Lord will never charge against him!

dcontroversal · Sep 14, 2017

AbigailZeke said:

AMEN....I agree.....

dalok6800 · Sep 14, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Was trust taking a step away from his old life?

If he had not taken a step in 12, would he have been credited in 15? and become a new man in 17? and be blessed in 22?

It all started when he took a step towards the promise.

dalok6800 · Sep 14, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Are you saying if he had not left Haran, things would be the same?

Was trust taking a step away from his old life?

If he had not taken a step in 12, would he have been credited in 15? and become a new man in 17? and be blessed in 22?

It all started when he took a step towards the promise.

Genesis 12.:1-4

Now the Lord said to Abram,“Go forth from your country,
And from your relatives
And from your father’s house,
To the land which I will show you;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And I will make you a great nation,
And I will bless you,
And make your name great;
And so you shall be a blessing;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I will bless those who bless you,
And the one who curses you I will curse.
And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.”
[SUP]4 [/SUP]So Abram went forth as the Lord had spoken to him; and Lot went with him. Now Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran.

PHart · Sep 14, 2017

gb9 said:

No, that's what you're hearing, not what's being said. Let me fix it for you so you can understand the argument correctly:

this is what they say- we are saved by faith, evidenced by growth into good works, and as long as we have faith, evidenced by growth into good works, then we continue to access God's grace in salvation.

I think a major breakdown in the church today is people thinking that salvation being a free gift means grace 'costs' nothing, not knowing that how you secure God's grace is through faith, not through nothing at all as is popularly thought. And faith certainly is no work that constitutes one trying to earn their salvation. In fact, it's the one and only thing that stands in contrast to works as to that which solicits God's grace in salvation. Salvation is free, not because you get it for absolutely nothing, but because you get for absolutely no payment of the works of the law. That hardly means you don't have to have faith to access God's grace. Continuing in the faith you started out in on the day you were born again is hardly a work that constitutes trying to earn your salvation. That's absurd. But that is what we have come to in the church today. And I'm quite confident that the church embraces this false thinking in order to rationalize willful sin...not struggling sin...willful sin.

AbigailZeke · Sep 14, 2017

dalok6800 said:

With this logic, Abraham's righteousness would have been discredited when he lied Gen 20:12

AbigailZeke · Sep 14, 2017

Why then was he still blessed? Mind you, I don't think he even repented lol.

Preacha24-7 · Sep 14, 2017

Our own righteousness is as filthy rags. When God looks at us He sees us in his righteousness. If it wasn't for God's grace we would all be in hell right now. Aren't you glad that Christ died for us? We are saved by God's grace. He shed his prescious Blood on the cross so we could be set free from the bondage of sin. Satan had us trapped but Christ set us free. We are saved by grace not by works lest any man should boast. Christ came to destroy the works of the devil, and to redeem mankind so we could have a relationship with the Heavenly Father. I'm so glad that Christ has set me free. I thank God for the Holy Spirit which gives me power and teaches me things. I've been in ministry for almost a year and praise God it is wonderful. I can't wait to see the great and mighty things that God is gonna do in 2018.
Saved by grace Ephesians 2:8-9
No condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus Romans8:1-2
Victory for those who are born again 1John 5:4-5

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