Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

She's saying the same thing as you. With one difference.

What I've noticed in your view of the argument (which is common) is that somehow responding correctly as Jesus wants us to just happens automatically, and if it doesn't you're basically off the hook. I wish it was that way all the time, but the truth is you do have to decide to follow the Spirit and not quench him when temptations and trials come that provoke us to respond in the flesh.

As I've said before, I expect EVERY Christian to suppress his or her desire to hurt me regardless of whether they 'feel' like it or not. That's what it means to obey. The more you grow up into Christ, the more that obedience will become your 'automatic' nature. Don't wait around for it to become your automatic response. If you do, you will in fact be delaying your growth toward that goal.

All this means we have to purposely, for example, turn off 'Game of Thrones', not wait for heaven to split open and make you feel like turning it off.

She does not agree the same as me, the root of her argument is not the root of my argument, they are different

the root of her argument is works

the root of my argument is faith,

scripture backs my agument

1 James, faith works, f we say we have faith but have no works we are liars
2. Hebrews, faih works, as proven by the hall of fame chapter of people who had faith and by that faith the worked
3. Paul, faith is the means by which one is made a new creature, which was created for works, i.e. Faith works.

A believer does not have to preach works, or boast of them, they just do them, because it is their nature.

 

[stonesoffire]

You're not going to like this and you're going to hate me for it, lol, but the Bible portrays the husband and wife relationship as that of employer/ employee. The benefits are just different, if you know what I mean.

Oh, and hate you never. Not part of my nature.

 

[PHart]

I said before I don't watch game of thrones so I don't know what you are viewing.

Never watched it. Just heard about it via a John Piper article. And I think I IMDB'd it and learned for myself without watching it how totally inappropriate, without debate necessary, it is: Parents Guide - IMDb

If anybody is aroused just by reading about sex stuff, DO NOT READ THE IMDB WARNING in the link I provided! The show is that bad. It's not okay to watch it just because it's socially acceptable viewing in our society.

 

[stonesoffire]

No she's not. She's trying to control her behavior by the power of God's presence by His Spirit. We're all learning to walk by the Spirit, not learning to walk by our own power. She's keenly aware that she has not the power in and of herself to do right.



Correct, she is not a murderer. But when/if she hates she has the spirit of murder in her, just as the lusting person has the spirit of adultery in them. But certainly, those things are not what she longs for and wants to entertain. At the very core of her being is a NEW woman who is absolutely in love with the things and ways of God. Her flesh is what doesn't want to love God and needs to be brought into submission to the Spirit.



Maybe.
After a few tries, in the case of a hardened narcissist, you will have to rely on just being Christ-like around them. Confrontation will be counter productive. You have to give 'em up.



Stunned knows all the passages of scripture. What will happen now is these passages will begin to be applied through real life practical situations. For me it was realizing that the fallout from my raging alienated people from me, not brought them near to me in peace as I intended. I knew all the scriptures, what I needed was a real life reason of why they are the truth. She will learn and be convinced with God's help, through her situations, that the scriptures are true and teach the best way for her to handle angry rage. She's already well on her way.

Magenta has already given her testimony of how we forgive enemies. Pray for them and bless them. It's a double blessing because it's works salvation is us, and mercy in the other that they come to repentance.

Grace working.

 

[stonesoffire]

Rosemary has an awesome testimony of the renewed mind. And she's a babe growing rapidly in the kingdom.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Don't misunderstand, stunned. You're not guilty of incest, for example, if you hold a grudge. That's not what he's saying. It simply means you can not boast of being a law keeper if you break one part of the law. It's like saying you're still a law abiding citizen because you drive the speed limit, even though you have a body buried in your basement. It only takes one infraction to no longer qualify as a law abiding citizen. Law abiding means obeying the sum total of the law.

stop looking at this from mans point of view and look at it from Gods point of view,

wheather your a murderer, a liar, a porn addict, a covetor, a proud person, or a person who knows to do right but do es. It, in Gods eyes, you all are in the same boat, fall short of his standard,

thnk of gods standard, have it in the law, it is perfection, unless you have reached that point, which n onto has, you are below it, and according to the law your judged as a sinner, and under a curse.

What makes us us all united in Adam (sin) must be redeemed to make us all united in righteousness (Christ)

This is not what happens for me. The law speaks to me and moves me to do the right thing because it is written on my heart. And I delight in it! It's a joy when a situation comes up and a word of scripture rises up in me by the Holy Spirit to direct me in how to respond to it.

The danger of law is using it improperly, in this example, trying to keep the commandments without aid from and reliance on the powerful manifestation of the presence of the Holy Spirit (the old way of the law--Romans 7:6). We get that power by falling on him in utter helplessness:

"15Call upon Me in the day of trouble;
I shall rescue you, and you will honor Me.”" (Psalm 50:15 NASB)

Deliverance and power does not come from trying to tough it out ourselves. But you seem to know this already. I'm just trying to encourage you.

the law can It help you, it can only condemn you, God did. It say look to the law and you will. It sin, he said seek after things of the spirit and you wil. It fulfill the lust of the flesh,

the things of th the spirit are outward focused. Not inward.

The law can only point us unward, or outward.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Stunned, you have put yourself back under law by trying to control behavior.

You are not a murderer...you have a new nature. What you are not seeing is the renewed mind. These things that you are angry about are justified to be angry over. Someone isn't treating you right. Confrontation and discussing should be the way to settle.

Have you confronted your mother? And then I think that you look at others and see that they are not condemned in mind as you are allowing yourself to be, and that makes you angry too. But, this is actually at the Lord. Like why don't they do what I am doing.

Jesus already made the way for you to be free. Free from condemnation that comes from our own heart. That is by identifying with Jesus and His resurrection life only.

Then in working out your salvation....bless your enemies. If that is all you can do because of the process of renewing your mind, then that is enough for now. Eventually your conscience will agree with the testimony of the Cross, the blood, and the Resurrection life that is found only from Him.

This is what you came here in this thread first with, and you are still struggling with it. So eternally-grateful was correct. He saw beyond your words.

McGee gave you good advice. It's temptation and the devil is jabbing at you with all kinds of darts.

I used to confront my mother all of the time, because she was despitefully using me and being very selfish.
It led to great and terrible rows.
No good ever came of it.

Then I tried very hard to just not get angry, but that was just whitewashing my tomb and walking in a hypocrisy that was blinded to the true condition of my heart.

Then He showed me a better way. To give up all my rights, my possessions, my clamoring for people to respect me, my life, to find it.

I have a burp from time to time, but mostly, I walk in peace and calm and soundness of emotions.

 

[PHart]

Oh, and hate you never. Not part of my nature.

I know it's not part of your (new) nature. But has your flesh been conformed into the image of your new nature inside? That's the question, lol.

(I know you're not going to hate me, lol. I just know marriage roles are a touchy subject these days.)

 

[stonesoffire]

Never watched it. Just heard about it via a John Piper article. And I think I IMDB'd it and learned for myself without watching it how totally inappropriate, without debate necessary, it is: Parents Guide - IMDb

If anybody is aroused just by reading about sex stuff, DO NOT READ THE IMDB WARNING in the link I provided! The show is that bad. It's not okay to watch it just because it's socially acceptable viewing in our society.

I would delete this. But, that is me. Many are struggling with porn and this could be tempting.

 

[Rosemaryx]

No she's not. She's trying to control her behavior by the power of God's presence by His Spirit. We're all learning to walk by the Spirit, not learning to walk by our own power. She's keenly aware that she has not the power in and of herself to do right.



Correct, she is not a murderer. But when/if she hates she has the spirit of murder in her, just as the lusting person has the spirit of adultery in them. But certainly, those things are not what she longs for and wants to entertain. At the very core of her being is a NEW woman who is absolutely in love with the things and ways of God. Her flesh is what doesn't want to love God and needs to be brought into submission to the Spirit.



Maybe.
After a few tries, in the case of a hardened narcissist, you will have to rely on just being Christ-like around them. Confrontation will be counter productive. You have to give 'em up.



Stunned knows all the passages of scripture. What will happen now is these passages will begin to be applied through real life practical situations. For me it was realizing that the fallout from my raging alienated people from me, not brought them near to me in peace as I intended. I knew all the scriptures, what I needed was a real life reason of why they are the truth. She will learn and be convinced with God's help, through her situations, that the scriptures are true and teach the best way for her to handle angry rage. She's already well on her way.

Hi Phart...I love what you say here...It`s only when real life situations come that we can walk in the Spirit, show ourselves to be true to His word...Sometimes I think Ii know the Scriptures but have not yet an experience to walk them out as Lord commands us to...I love little nuggets like that...xox...

 

[stonesoffire]

I know it's not part of your (new) nature. But has your flesh been conformed into the image of your new nature inside? That's the question, lol.

(I know you're not going to hate me, lol. I just know marriage roles are a touchy subject these days.)

I am not flesh...am spirit.

~Rom 8:8　 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
　
Rom 8:9　 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.　

Renew your mind Phart.

 

[PHart]

I used to confront my mother all of the time, because she was despitefully using me and being very selfish.
It led to great and terrible rows.
No good ever came of it.

Then I tried very hard to just not get angry, but that was just whitewashing my tomb and walking in a hypocrisy that was blinded to the true condition of my heart.

Then He showed me a better way. To give up all my rights, my possessions, my clamoring for people to respect me, my life, to find it.

I have a burp from time to time, but mostly, I walk in peace and calm and soundness of emotions.

You are so over this rage thing. I see it.

When you give it up and you just accept the fall out from the circumstances God has placed you in, no matter what, that's when God comes in like a flood. Put your floaties on, you're in for a great ride.

Sure, you may need reminding from time to time, but once you get over the hump....

 

[PHart]

I am not flesh...am spirit.

~Rom 8:8　 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
　
Rom 8:9　 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.　

Renew your mind Phart.

I know that you as a Christian are not 'in the flesh'. If you were still in the flesh you'd be an unbeliever (read the text, folks). But that hardly means your flesh is not raging.

Now that we are no longer 'in the flesh' we are to now 'walk in the Spirit'. Having the Spirit is not the same as walking in the Spirit. We got the Spirit at the moment of our salvation. Now we have to learn how to walk in it. And as you point out, just knowing you're already a new person in your deepest self is the place to start. By faith we act out what we know to be in our inner most self. That alone probably isn't going to be enough to change a person. God has set many obstacles up in our lives to learn the practicalities of believing in the truth of his ways and the reality of what he has made us deep inside.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As DC said, it's not that cut and dried.
The law is not dangerous for a Christian unless they work to obey, thinking they can.
It's not dangerous for them when Jesus and the Spirit point out to them their hypocrisy in thinking they could obey it while not obeying it inwardly.

Because this leads to thirsting and hungering for righteousness in their inner man, in their heart. And this leads to prayer. And this leads to prayer being answered and growing love, humility, etc.

the law will not help you period,

the law says do not covet, it can not tell you he w not to covet, at most it can give you a warning and you decide to do it in your own power, or tell you when you have failed,

if you want victory from coveting, you learn to love the people who have things you are covering, and learn instead to pray to God and praise God for blessing them, i.e. You love them more than yourself

it goes the same for coveting, anger or any other sin, your u want victory, learn thow to love others, not look to the law, the law can. To help you. Jesus made this clear when he said two commands is all we need, love God and love neighbor in these 2 commands are all the law and prophets

 

[Rosemaryx]

Rosemary has an awesome testimony of the renewed mind. And she's a babe growing rapidly in the kingdom.

Hi SOF...Thank you and all Praise to God......xox...

 

[stonesoffire]

Its a great testimony Rosemary, of His work in you. I believe the Lord is going to use you many times over.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Maybe, maybe not. Though Christ does make it clear that they believed.

But one thing is for sure, their believing did not go deep enough to withstand the trials of life. I simply argue that doesn't mean it was not true believing, just that it was weak believing prone to doubts and temptations. It didn't come to maturity as evidenced by fruit. Strong believing can endure more trouble. Weak believing, though it still secure the forgiveness of God, can not endure as much trouble.

No maybe about it,

if your root is in Christ, it is in the good ground, and it will not be shaken, we fail when our faith is not grounded, an ungrounded fairh is n faith at all,

i can believe something and have no faith in it at all, believe will not cause me to work, it will not cause me to do anything , at most it may get me to try something out, thinking I will benefit, but it will fall away when things go south, because I t did not do what we expected. The people who fall after the things of the world get rough fell because they expected God to remove all the their problems, much like the Jews expected the messiah to free them from Rome,

when things did not happen as they expected, they fell away because their faith was not rooted in truth, but in their selfish desires.

 

[PHart]

the law will not help you period,

the law says do not covet, it can not tell you he w not to covet, at most it can give you a warning and you decide to do it in your own power, or tell you when you have failed...

And so that makes the law useless?
Paul said the law has value if you use it properly. But you seem to be brushing it away completely as if the mere mention of the law is sinful. I see this a lot in the church.

Don't you realize that, as a believer, when 'do not covet' comes to your mind that's the Spirit talking to you? That's how the law is written on your heart in this new covenant.

if you want victory from coveting, you learn to love the people who have things you are covering, and learn instead to pray to God and praise God for blessing them, i.e. You love them more than yourself

Surely, but sometimes a good clunk on the head teaches us to obey the law of 'do not covet'. Perhaps a jail sentence or something like that can make a believer come to his senses and start listening to the Spirit tell him to 'not covet'.

it goes the same for coveting, anger or any other sin, your u want victory, learn thow to love others, not look to the law

She's not looking to the law to be her power to overcome sin. Really, she's not. The law is how she knows to get to the Lord for the power she needs.

 

[Limey410v2]

Don't you know that when you and others decide that only type #4 soil is saved soil that you condemn about 99% of us Christians, including yourself probably, to being not really saved? I'm convinced that most of us truly born again believers will spend the vast part of our lives struggling in #3 soil--the fruit of our belief, belief we really have but are growing up into, being choked out by our concern for houses, jobs, relationships, etc. If we all had to be soil #4 to be saved we are in a most pathetic religion, lol. We might as well go back to the way of the law.



They will want to debate why we don't have to have works to be saved.

A hearer only is someone who, for example, watches 'Game of Thrones' and says it doesn't matter because "salvation is soooo not of works". They are safe....safe to do detestable things and still be saved.

Why is everyone assuming the parable is about salvation? If the premise is faulty, the conclusion will be also.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

You are so over this rage thing. I see it.

When you give it up and you just accept the fall out from the circumstances God has placed you in, no matter what, that's when God comes in like a flood. Put your floaties on, you're in for a great ride.

Sure, you may need reminding from time to time, but once you get over the hump....

I have come to love her so much because of how He placed me here, used her, to grow me so much. How can you hate someone when He has brought you to so much love through them?