Not By Works

[loveme1]

If you have to ask based upon the bolded below.......

Originally Posted by loveme1

Follow His example.. when you think that the Messiah was without sin suffering on the cross to save us.. and you feel yourself becoming angry remind yourself that if He without sin went and suffered so we could be forgiven then who are we to hold anything against another? If you do anger be quick to forgive before the anger leads you to do evil.

1 Peter 2

21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

 

[dcontroversal]

Adam and eve were condemned in the garden and we are condemned today so the law must still be active.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Sin is still around today.

I have never denied this and have stated openly that the law condemns ALL not born again or saved......adherence to the law will not save a flea.....NO ONE except JESUS could keep the law 24/7/365...break one point and you are guilty of the whole! It points us to the cure and the picture is seen in Moses and Joshua (Savior in Hebrew) MOSES sinned once under the law and was not allowed to deliver and or take the people into the promise land......why? BECAUSE it takes a savior (Joshua) to deliver into the land of rest (salvation).....MOSES took the people right to the point of entering and pointed to the land, but did not deliver them.....JOSHUA did....in like manner, the law will take us by the hand right up to the bridge, but will not deliver because we are ALL guilty, but it does point us to the cure------the cross

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Follow His example.. when you think that the Messiah was without sin suffering on the cross to save us.. and you feel yourself becoming angry remind yourself that if He without sin went and suffered so we could be forgiven then who are we to hold anything against another? If you do anger be quick to forgive before the anger leads you to do evil.

I can't follow His example. The best I can try to do is hide it from someone when I am furious with them.

But while hiding it and biting my tongue is a good thing to do for the good of society, the anger was still there, even if no man saw it and so according to Jesus, I have murdered, even if I hide and try to not let it out visibly.

 

[TruthTalk]

Throughout the bible it teaches repentance for remission. Repentance is a work, not a religious work, but a work of the soul coming clean with God, whereas the conscience is void of offence. This is the clearing that takes place in 2 Cor. 7-10,11. There is no forgiveness of past sins without this work. It’s absolutely impossible to circumvent this season of godly sorrow. (the seed that fell upon good soil) .. Solomon said; the preparation of the heart belongs to man, and the answer of the tongue is God’s…Its ALWAYS repentance for remission, not remission and then repentance later on……without the crucial work of repentance and crucifying the lusts of the flesh, none shall obtain mercy because the blood cannot be applied to cleans the soul…I know there are many that will not like to hear this truth. Notwithstanding, it’s still the truth…..be blessed

"Come now, and let us reason together," Says the LORD, "Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool."
Isaiah1:18

There is an on going Holy Spirit sanctification throughout the believers life; I experience the prompting of God's Spirit here on this thread just a few days ago - lesson learned. And then we will finally go before the judgment seat of Christ for rewards not punishment. Christ died on the Cross and shed His blood for our sins, all of them not just the part but in the whole; past, present and future. God made a provision to wash our hands because he new none of us could live a perfect life; that is why the 1john1:9 is such an important verse to new believer's as well as, young-old-believer's.

Frankly I have not heard this type of gospel from any preachers that I have heard; it just sounds foreign to my thinking.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1John1:9

 

[dcontroversal]

1 Peter 2

21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

 

[loveme1]

I can't follow His example. The best I can try to do is hide it from someone when I am furious with them.

But while hiding it and biting my tongue is a good thing to do for the good of society, the anger was still there, even if no man saw it and so according to Jesus, I have murdered, even if I hide and try to not let it out visibly.

The Lord knows your heart and if you set yourself by believing when He tells you to forgive then you will forgive those that upset you quickly and you will do well.

Like you say we can not hide anger or lust or anything from the Lord. So let us follow Him believing what He Teaches us.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Me personally it is a matter of perception......for example.......the sin part comes with anger if wrath is on the mind.....or...I will get you attitude.....there are things to be angry about such as......when we see on the news a man rapes and kills a little girl....this makes me angry as a man and as a believer.....a flip side would be....if one cuts me off while driving.....do I get mad and have evil thoughts like passing them and then locking the brakes up......it is how we deal with the anger that determines the outcome......that is the key to me....................

I agree that how we deal with the anger affects the outcome.
But the murder was still committed. It was just hidden.

 

[loveme1]

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Yes so we could be forgiven and born again of the Holy Spirit and worship GOD in Spirit and Truth.

Worthy is the Lamb indeed.

 

[dcontroversal]

I agree that how we deal with the anger affects the outcome.
But the murder was still committed. It was just hidden.

I do not believe it is that cut and dry........if that was the case the bible would not say be ye angry and sin not.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

The Lord knows your heart and if you set yourself by believing when He tells you to forgive then you will forgive those that upset you quickly and you will do well.

Like you say we can not hide anger or lust or anything from the Lord. So let us follow Him believing what He Teaches us.

I didn't u derstand this. Are you saying if I believe Him that I need to forgive quickly then I will forgive quickly?

 

[TruthTalk]

Who can save and keep you saved
​

God Can

Good night Ya'll
and
Good Mornin' NSW

[video=youtube;tCcvQrvRlSM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCcvQrvRlSM[/video]​

 

[loveme1]

I didn't u derstand this. Are you saying if I believe Him that I need to forgive quickly then I will forgive quickly?

Matthew 18

23Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 28But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.







Keep His Teaching to mind.


You will find forgiveness in your heart quickly for others.

There is instruction how do handle problems in Matthew 18.

 

[TMS]

Abraham tried to do what God promised to to for him by his own strength and own wisdom. As a result Hagar had Ishmael.
Gen_16:16 And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.
Child of bondage. Doing it in his own strength = bondage.

This is the old covernant =
Exo 19:1 In the third month, when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai.
Exo 19:2 For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount.
Exo 19:3 And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
Exo 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Exo 19:7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.


At this stage the ten commandments were not written on stone by God.

Abraham waited for the better promise and had Issac to Sarah. This is the child of promise. Abraham just needed to trust in God rather than try to do it himself. Issac = child of promise.

The Second covenant is given in Hebrews
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:



That is a better promise and one that we can't do in our strength, we need to trust in Gods ability to write His law on our hearts. Freedom because the law is a natural result of Gods transforming power within.

The Ten commandments are a part of both the covenants, one is a burden the other is by promise.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I do not believe it is that cut and dry........if that was the case the bible would not say be ye angry and sin not.

I'm not sure I have Gods' mind on that verse you gave.
I know it doesn't cancel out the one we are working on together though...to be angry at my brother without cause is to murder.
And of course it doesn't war with it. It certainly CAN be fit together, I just don't quite see it all yet.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I'm not sure I have Gods' mind on that verse you gave.
I know it doesn't cancel out the one we are working on together though...to be angry at my brother without cause is to murder.
And of course it doesn't war with it. It certainly CAN be fit together, I just don't quite see it all yet.

the initial thought of anger
is a form of temptation

now you can
1. Hold that thought captive and go to God in prayer (even if only mentally)

2. you can entertain the thought and let it lead to imaginations and malice (that can be murder in your heart)

3. you can act on it (can be as bad as 2 and sometimes worse) and let it bring forth wrath

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Matthew 18

23Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 28But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.







Keep His Teaching to mind.


You will find forgiveness in your heart quickly for others.

There is instruction how do handle problems in Matthew 18.

This doesn't work for me. I don't find forgiveness quickly even though I know I am to forgive. I have to just trust Him to somehow change my heart because I can't do it no matter how hard I try and how badly I want to be good. I always fail at some point.

 

[TMS]

I have never denied this and have stated openly that the law condemns ALL not born again or saved......adherence to the law will not save a flea.....NO ONE except JESUS could keep the law 24/7/365...break one point and you are guilty of the whole! It points us to the cure and the picture is seen in Moses and Joshua (Savior in Hebrew) MOSES sinned once under the law and was not allowed to deliver and or take the people into the promise land......why? BECAUSE it takes a savior (Joshua) to deliver into the land of rest (salvation).....MOSES took the people right to the point of entering and pointed to the land, but did not deliver them.....JOSHUA did....in like manner, the law will take us by the hand right up to the bridge, but will not deliver because we are ALL guilty, but it does point us to the cure------the cross

I agree that no one can keep it and one sin means condemnation, which is why Jesus needs to save each one of us. But are you saying that the law is gone today? What is condemning us today? do we need salvation from sin today? Faith in Gods grace?
Did the Royal law (10 commandments), end at Christs death? Some laws did end at the cross because those laws were schoolmasters, they pointed to the cross and were symbols of the cross.
But the laws that tells us not to steal or kill are still valid today.

 

[Magenta]

Yes, but also, what constitutes "without cause?"
If someone is rude to me, is that cause?
What about if they mock and taunt me?
What if they torture me to death?

We can know for sure that our anger or indignation is righteous when it is directed toward what angers God Himself. (The LORD detests lying lips, but he delights in people who are trustworthy. Prov 12:22 And: These six things the Lord hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him: 17 A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil, 19 A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren. Prov 6:16-19) Righteous anger and indignation are justly expressed when we are confronted with sin. Good examples would be anger toward child abuse, pornography, racism, homosexual activity, abortion, and the like.

The apostle Paul gives clear warning to those who anger God: “Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God” (Galatians 5:19–21). Jesus expressed righteous anger over the sins of the people (Mark 3:1–5; Matthew 21:12–13; Luke 19:41–44). But His anger was directed at sinful behaviors and unmistakable injustice.

However, we are also taught to be careful in our anger, that we do not sin. “Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and give no opportunity to the devil” (Ephesians 4:26–27). We should check our attitude as well as our motive before becoming angry with others. Paul gives us some sound advice on the appropriate approach: “Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: ‘It is mine to avenge; I will repay,’ says the Lord. On the contrary: ‘If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.’ Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good” (Romans 12:19–21).

James also gives us good instruction when it comes to righteous indignation: “Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God” (James 1:19–20). The apostle Peter echoes this advice especially for those times when we face those antagonistic toward God and the things of God: “But even if you should suffer for righteousness’ sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled, but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame. For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God’s will, than for doing evil” (1 Peter 3:14–17).

Believers can also channel their anger into constructive action by becoming involved with Christian organizations that combat the influence of evil in society. The key is that, if our outrage results in bringing others into a loving and restorative relationship with God, it’s righteous indignation. https://www.gotquestions.org/righteous-indignation-anger.html

 

[Magenta]

Adam and eve were condemned in the garden and we are condemned today so the law must still be active.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Sin is still around today.

There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, Romans 8:1

 

[Magenta]

This doesn't work for me. I don't find forgiveness quickly even though I know I am to forgive. I have to just trust Him to somehow change my heart because I can't do it no matter how hard I try and how badly I want to be good. I always fail at some point.

Bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. Luke 6:28