Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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E
I'm sorry EG...lol...but how could one who thinks they ran the race humbly stand up? lol You got me laughing so hard.
And I truly love you!
And I truly love you!
Lol, I don't know, I have never met anyone who thought they were finished, so I would not know
are re there any here? Show me one? Or maybe they would just say, here I am?
Son of man, eat this scroll.
And he ate the word and it was sweet as honey in his mouth but became bitter in his stomach.
Unless a man eats the words for himself and suffers the upset stomach himself, he can't help other people with the word.
You eat it for yourself first and it becomes bitter in your stomach and then leads to clearness of sight.
This is like saying...if you read the scroll and think about who ELSE needs to eat the words on it, it's a pretty sure bet you have not eaten it yourself.
That is what I got from what you were sharing there. Might just confuse you, dunno...but you have spoken well.
And he ate the word and it was sweet as honey in his mouth but became bitter in his stomach.
Unless a man eats the words for himself and suffers the upset stomach himself, he can't help other people with the word.
You eat it for yourself first and it becomes bitter in your stomach and then leads to clearness of sight.
This is like saying...if you read the scroll and think about who ELSE needs to eat the words on it, it's a pretty sure bet you have not eaten it yourself.
That is what I got from what you were sharing there.
Might just confuse you, dunno...but you have spoken well. 
I do not agree with that man putting his hands on you, but that's my opinion.
I think I disagree that when we are walking in perfect love, it is usually only with me and Jesus. If I am walking in the Spirit, I am walking in love with others also who are walking in the Spirit. And I have seen us make great strides in here, despite the setbacks and the starting to walk in the flesh at times. The whole point to me is to walk in the Spirit for longer and longer periods of time (to build that endurance), so that I will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh that always clamor and gibber that someone must respect me or I will begin caterwauling. I don't deserve respect. He does. I don't expect to be treated well, but my brothers and sisters DO treat me well, even when I disagree with them. The point to me is to walk in love in the Spirit. He brings us to unity - not doctrine. I think we have caught this at times in here. It encourages me.
I think I disagree that when we are walking in perfect love, it is usually only with me and Jesus. If I am walking in the Spirit, I am walking in love with others also who are walking in the Spirit. And I have seen us make great strides in here, despite the setbacks and the starting to walk in the flesh at times. The whole point to me is to walk in the Spirit for longer and longer periods of time (to build that endurance), so that I will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh that always clamor and gibber that someone must respect me or I will begin caterwauling. I don't deserve respect. He does. I don't expect to be treated well, but my brothers and sisters DO treat me well, even when I disagree with them.
The point to me is to walk in love in the Spirit. He brings us to unity - not doctrine. I think we have caught this at times in here. It encourages me.
Notice this:
1 John 3:23-24 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
To abide is to obey His commandments. Do we obey His commands by works of the law or by works of the faith? .........it's by works of the faith. The one who has faith works. It's what we do.
A hammer hammers.
A saw cuts wood.
A broom sweeps.
A fruit tree produces fruit.
A Christian works. But how do we differ? We're not inanimate. We can hear, see, touch, taste and smell. We are created in the image of God. We can talk and interact with our Creator God. He tells us what to do. So we do it.
Without the empowering presence of the Holy Spirit, I'd be like I was before Christ and can't obey Him and wouldn't want to either.
The fruit of the Spirit and the fruit of the flesh are contrasted. If I'm a believer I will produce the fruit of righteousness. If I'm not a believer, I will produce the fruit of the natural man bound in slavery to sin and can't do what our Heavenly Farther requires of us in obedience to Him.
Because I'm born again, I can love Him by keeping His commandments. The carnal man doesn't want to obey. The spiritual man desires to love God and obey Him. The spiritual man is empowered by God to obey. The spiritual man obeying is proof that God is within him. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, self control can only be produced by the person who's born of the Spirit.
We love because we believe and God has given us the power to love. We obey God because He's empowered us to obey. We don't have to wait around to work it up because it's within us to obey.
So are we going to ridicule those who choose to obey our Lord's commands by loving others? Are we going to say to others your working for the Lord is of your own doing when they say that it is God at work in them? That He's empowered us to obey?
The Pharisee has a righteousness according to the law which works.
The Christian has a righteousness according to faith which works.
So consider that works are not the problem. It's either works of the law OR works of the faith. Works are not to be condemned.
I have stated before this is very universalist in its interpretation.
Rev 11 The 3rd woe or judgement, coming after the two witnessess,
and the casting down of the dragon etc.
I have not noticed these things happening yet, so this is about a future
event, therefore the Kingdom of this world is not yet become the Kingdom of heaven
The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:15
So this is not referring to the cross and the change of kingdoms after the cross,
but the time of judgement and final reconning, the open display of the enemy and his
final defeat.
Now to take this verse and then apply it to the cross turned the world into Gods kingdom,
linked with satans temptation of Jesus is projecting too far.
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
Rom 12:1
This world is governed by God and the authority He provides. Satan might manipulate
things, he has never ruled anything.
In Job in asks permission of God to cause Job problems. God rules, and has always ruled.
Rev 11 The 3rd woe or judgement, coming after the two witnessess,
and the casting down of the dragon etc.
I have not noticed these things happening yet, so this is about a future
event, therefore the Kingdom of this world is not yet become the Kingdom of heaven
The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:15
So this is not referring to the cross and the change of kingdoms after the cross,
but the time of judgement and final reconning, the open display of the enemy and his
final defeat.
Now to take this verse and then apply it to the cross turned the world into Gods kingdom,
linked with satans temptation of Jesus is projecting too far.
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
Rom 12:1
This world is governed by God and the authority He provides. Satan might manipulate
things, he has never ruled anything.
In Job in asks permission of God to cause Job problems. God rules, and has always ruled.
Do people lie here?
I think there is a grey area of interpretation of what people mean, and what they intend that
is stretched into this area, but it is difficult to identify.
So I could say, you won that argument, meaning I believe in the points made.
Now someone else could say they lost the argument based on the same conversation.
What some do not realise is both are speaking the truth. It is why a debating society has
a vote after a discussion, because the belief of who is presenting points and which are valid
is subjective.
This was illustrated by an optical illusion some time ago of a dress. To some it appeared blue
and black and others white and gold. Each saw what they saw, but it was actually blue and black.
It is why respect is often needed to accept we see things differently, and that is ok.
What is not ok is assuming someone is evil and lying with a bad intention. This mainly is not the case
unless someone is really upset.
What is illuminating is how stubborn people can cause great frustration in others, until they realise
this is the way they are, it is not going to change, so adjust your expectations and just explore others
positions, and learn from them.
Another corruption is when people start to believe people are innately evil and deceived, and must
be deceived to see the truth. Once you go down this road, all is lost. It is the road to fanatics
and radicals, and leads to death and war. People are compromised and lost, in denial about sin and
guilt, and this will distort everything they say and do. It is why we need to be cleansed to see Christ
as He truly is and find freedom. Amen.
I think there is a grey area of interpretation of what people mean, and what they intend that
is stretched into this area, but it is difficult to identify.
So I could say, you won that argument, meaning I believe in the points made.
Now someone else could say they lost the argument based on the same conversation.
What some do not realise is both are speaking the truth. It is why a debating society has
a vote after a discussion, because the belief of who is presenting points and which are valid
is subjective.
This was illustrated by an optical illusion some time ago of a dress. To some it appeared blue
and black and others white and gold. Each saw what they saw, but it was actually blue and black.
It is why respect is often needed to accept we see things differently, and that is ok.
What is not ok is assuming someone is evil and lying with a bad intention. This mainly is not the case
unless someone is really upset.
What is illuminating is how stubborn people can cause great frustration in others, until they realise
this is the way they are, it is not going to change, so adjust your expectations and just explore others
positions, and learn from them.
Another corruption is when people start to believe people are innately evil and deceived, and must
be deceived to see the truth. Once you go down this road, all is lost. It is the road to fanatics
and radicals, and leads to death and war. People are compromised and lost, in denial about sin and
guilt, and this will distort everything they say and do. It is why we need to be cleansed to see Christ
as He truly is and find freedom. Amen.
We "get to do good works and we are participating in the family business of telling and showing others of the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them" because His life is in us now - but they are not for salvation nor for maintaining being saved.
That's an anti-Christ belief system that is simply a works-based self-righteousness belief system that denies the very work of Christ.
An example of "good works" are when we encourage people to actually believe what Jesus has said and what He has already done. It is a good work to encourage Christians to believe that He alone has obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:12
Right believing in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection and that we too have died with Him and rose to newness of life - will bring right thinking ( repentance ) which will manifest in His life being seen in our lives outwardly as His fruit is borne on us the branches.
This is what produces real godliness based on Christ alone by grace through faith.
As we have received Christ - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6-8
This is all done by grace through faith alone in Christ and what He has already done on the cross and resurrection.
Without Him - we can do nothing.
It is a "good work" to encourage people to trust that He who has begun a good work in you will perfect it. (Phil. 1:6)
It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are new creations in Christ ( 2 Cor. 5:17 )
It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that Christ alone is our wisdom, our righteousness and our sanctification and our redemption. ( 1 Cor. 1:30 )
It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and no amount of good works can save us nor "keep us saved". Christ alone is the Savior of the world - especially of believers. ( Eph. 2:8-19 & 1 Tim. 4:10 )
It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that we will walk in the good works that God has already prepare for us to walk in as His life becomes manifested in and through us to reveal the love and grace of our loving Father and our Lord has for others. ( Eph. 2:10 & Phil. 2:13 )
It is a "good work" for us to encourage Christians that we are safe in the hands of the Lord and we who truly believe have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and He will be in us forever - just like Jesus said. ( Eph. 1:13, 4:20 & John 14:16 )
It is also a "good work" to remind Christians that there is a warning for not relying on the life of Christ in us for life and living while on this earth.
All the works of the flesh will bring destruction in this life of some sort - whether living the homosexual lifestyle or the exhibiting of malice, outbursts of anger, deceitfulness or the slandering of others in the body of Christ.
Fail to rely on the grace of God that is only in Christ's finished work and trying to do things in our own flesh will not get us to experience the life of Christ that is in our inner man of the heart where Christ dwells and where we are in the kingdom of God.
The warning scriptures are needed and to be heeded - once the proper foundation of Christ and His finished work are firmly established in the hearts and minds of us Christians. From there - then the warning scriptures will have their proper place.
If we want to experience our inheritance that is ours in Christ while we are in this earth - it's imperative that we don't live by the flesh.
But the firm foundation is Christ Himself and you can no more lose the redemption that is in Christ then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.
We are beloved children of our loving Father and He will not throw His beloved children into hell and the lake of fire because they don't do enough "good works".
Where there is "security" - there are the nutrients for "maturity". Let's believe what Christ has said and what He has already done for us and grow in the grace and knowledge of Him.
That's an anti-Christ belief system that is simply a works-based self-righteousness belief system that denies the very work of Christ.
An example of "good works" are when we encourage people to actually believe what Jesus has said and what He has already done. It is a good work to encourage Christians to believe that He alone has obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:12
Right believing in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection and that we too have died with Him and rose to newness of life - will bring right thinking ( repentance ) which will manifest in His life being seen in our lives outwardly as His fruit is borne on us the branches.
This is what produces real godliness based on Christ alone by grace through faith.
As we have received Christ - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6-8
This is all done by grace through faith alone in Christ and what He has already done on the cross and resurrection.
Without Him - we can do nothing.
It is a "good work" to encourage people to trust that He who has begun a good work in you will perfect it. (Phil. 1:6)
It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are new creations in Christ ( 2 Cor. 5:17 )
It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that Christ alone is our wisdom, our righteousness and our sanctification and our redemption. ( 1 Cor. 1:30 )
It is a "good work" to encourage Christians to believe that we are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and no amount of good works can save us nor "keep us saved". Christ alone is the Savior of the world - especially of believers. ( Eph. 2:8-19 & 1 Tim. 4:10 )
It is a "good work" to encourage Christians that we will walk in the good works that God has already prepare for us to walk in as His life becomes manifested in and through us to reveal the love and grace of our loving Father and our Lord has for others. ( Eph. 2:10 & Phil. 2:13 )
It is a "good work" for us to encourage Christians that we are safe in the hands of the Lord and we who truly believe have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and He will be in us forever - just like Jesus said. ( Eph. 1:13, 4:20 & John 14:16 )
It is also a "good work" to remind Christians that there is a warning for not relying on the life of Christ in us for life and living while on this earth.
All the works of the flesh will bring destruction in this life of some sort - whether living the homosexual lifestyle or the exhibiting of malice, outbursts of anger, deceitfulness or the slandering of others in the body of Christ.
Fail to rely on the grace of God that is only in Christ's finished work and trying to do things in our own flesh will not get us to experience the life of Christ that is in our inner man of the heart where Christ dwells and where we are in the kingdom of God.
The warning scriptures are needed and to be heeded - once the proper foundation of Christ and His finished work are firmly established in the hearts and minds of us Christians. From there - then the warning scriptures will have their proper place.
If we want to experience our inheritance that is ours in Christ while we are in this earth - it's imperative that we don't live by the flesh.
But the firm foundation is Christ Himself and you can no more lose the redemption that is in Christ then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.
We are beloved children of our loving Father and He will not throw His beloved children into hell and the lake of fire because they don't do enough "good works".
Where there is "security" - there are the nutrients for "maturity". Let's believe what Christ has said and what He has already done for us and grow in the grace and knowledge of Him.
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
James 1:27
Some want so desperately to redefine Jesus's words into a mental belief system rather
than one of actions based on love, it is a wonder what is driving their hearts.
If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?
1 John 3:17
At the core of someone who wants to deny simple scriptures, you got to wonder the
pain and bitterness that is driving them.
I know for some the very things their hearts do and they deny, is the very thing they
see in everybody else but it has never left their life, so the are hounded like a mad
animal in great pain and anguish seeing the shadow everywhere not knowing it is still
within them.
James 1:27
Some want so desperately to redefine Jesus's words into a mental belief system rather
than one of actions based on love, it is a wonder what is driving their hearts.
If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?
1 John 3:17
At the core of someone who wants to deny simple scriptures, you got to wonder the
pain and bitterness that is driving them.
I know for some the very things their hearts do and they deny, is the very thing they
see in everybody else but it has never left their life, so the are hounded like a mad
animal in great pain and anguish seeing the shadow everywhere not knowing it is still
within them.
I do not agree with that man putting his hands on you, but that's my opinion.
I think I disagree that when we are walking in perfect love, it is usually only with me and Jesus. If I am walking in the Spirit, I am walking in love with others also who are walking in the Spirit. And I have seen us make great strides in here, despite the setbacks and the starting to walk in the flesh at times. The whole point to me is to walk in the Spirit for longer and longer periods of time (to build that endurance), so that I will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh that always clamor and gibber that someone must respect me or I will begin caterwauling. I don't deserve respect. He does. I don't expect to be treated well, but my brothers and sisters DO treat me well, even when I disagree with them. The point to me is to walk in love in the Spirit. He brings us to unity - not doctrine. I think we have caught this at times in here. It encourages me.
I think I disagree that when we are walking in perfect love, it is usually only with me and Jesus. If I am walking in the Spirit, I am walking in love with others also who are walking in the Spirit. And I have seen us make great strides in here, despite the setbacks and the starting to walk in the flesh at times. The whole point to me is to walk in the Spirit for longer and longer periods of time (to build that endurance), so that I will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh that always clamor and gibber that someone must respect me or I will begin caterwauling. I don't deserve respect. He does. I don't expect to be treated well, but my brothers and sisters DO treat me well, even when I disagree with them.
The point to me is to walk in love in the Spirit. He brings us to unity - not doctrine. I think we have caught this at times in here. It encourages me.
7
no
the helmet of salvation is self explanatory
no unbeliever can put it on, so why are believers told to put it on?
watch out for the devil is like a roaring lion seeking whom he can devour
he has already chowed down on those who do not believe and do you know a non-believer who will put on an imaginery helmet of salvation, or breastplate of righteousness or sword of the spirit? they will watch Lord of the Rings until they dream about it, but Christianity is nonsense to those who perishing
don't be deceived by smooth words and promises of peace or the kingdom of Jesus is on the earth.
this will not happen
no one but Jesus can usher in His own kingdom. to say men will do so is a fabrication of false prophets and teachers
7
[h=1]Ephesians 6:11-18[/h][FONT="]11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints
Ephesians 6
Prayer is the oil to keep the armor from becoming rusty
we can use the shield to protect others
armor is actually spoken of in many ways in the Bible[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints
Ephesians 6
Prayer is the oil to keep the armor from becoming rusty
we can use the shield to protect others
armor is actually spoken of in many ways in the Bible[/FONT]