Not By Works
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Let me explain it like this:
For me to pick up my salvation and say I "hope" I'm saved, and I "hope" I stay saved, would be me picking back up my Lordship to protect, provide, love, and care for myself. It would also be incredibly disrespectful considering the great price He paid so that I might be His child. To ever think His sacrifice wasn't enough. And I had to try to keep believing in Him. It might be different for you, but for me that entire thought process just really hurts my heart.
I mean one look at Him and I'm undone. I'm changed. Can't turn back because His goodness and kindness keeps pulling me closer to Him. Do I participate sure? I receive His love for me. And it changes me. And then His love through me changes others.
He is my Vine. And I am His branch. And His fruit through me, reveals Him to the world.
For me to pick up my salvation and say I "hope" I'm saved, and I "hope" I stay saved, would be me picking back up my Lordship to protect, provide, love, and care for myself. It would also be incredibly disrespectful considering the great price He paid so that I might be His child. To ever think His sacrifice wasn't enough. And I had to try to keep believing in Him. It might be different for you, but for me that entire thought process just really hurts my heart.
I mean one look at Him and I'm undone. I'm changed. Can't turn back because His goodness and kindness keeps pulling me closer to Him. Do I participate sure? I receive His love for me. And it changes me. And then His love through me changes others.
He is my Vine. And I am His branch. And His fruit through me, reveals Him to the world.
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I'd replace the bolded "you's" with "we", the bolded "your" with "our." And the bolded "yourself" with "ourselves."
Then I'd re-ask the questions. No offense intended, just how I would put it.
Also, the aforementioned persons "deny the power of godliness." That is, they deny holiness as part and parcel to the Gospel, they have a form of godliness, but deny the power of it. The transforming power of the Gospel is denied, people no longer believe in evidence of true conversion, thus all the bad fruit mentioned in 2 Timothy 3 can be a part of a true believer, no questions asked. To allow this antinomian non-transforming gospel to live and breath is to be "loving." We can have a form of godliness, but we can also deny its power because we've changed the gospel, and the effect of the Gospel.
To get to what it looks like to reprove, rebuke, exhort, we need to define the words. This is followed in the OP with "what does truth look like" which is another subject altogether, and is really never addressed or answered afterward as far as I can tell.
The context shows the professing believers of this epistle to have put an end to enduring sound doctrine. They select their favorite preachers. They want to hear only what they want to hear. They no longer want to hear truth.
Sounds exactly like the problem we are having today, the church then wants to determine what love is, what truth is without any true godliness or sound doctrine. Truth had been abandoned, and godly preachers are to stand their ground. Paul then goes on to state he has done just that, and example to us all.
Then I'd re-ask the questions. No offense intended, just how I would put it.
Also, the aforementioned persons "deny the power of godliness." That is, they deny holiness as part and parcel to the Gospel, they have a form of godliness, but deny the power of it. The transforming power of the Gospel is denied, people no longer believe in evidence of true conversion, thus all the bad fruit mentioned in 2 Timothy 3 can be a part of a true believer, no questions asked. To allow this antinomian non-transforming gospel to live and breath is to be "loving." We can have a form of godliness, but we can also deny its power because we've changed the gospel, and the effect of the Gospel.
To get to what it looks like to reprove, rebuke, exhort, we need to define the words. This is followed in the OP with "what does truth look like" which is another subject altogether, and is really never addressed or answered afterward as far as I can tell.
The context shows the professing believers of this epistle to have put an end to enduring sound doctrine. They select their favorite preachers. They want to hear only what they want to hear. They no longer want to hear truth.
Sounds exactly like the problem we are having today, the church then wants to determine what love is, what truth is without any true godliness or sound doctrine. Truth had been abandoned, and godly preachers are to stand their ground. Paul then goes on to state he has done just that, and example to us all.
Truth is a person.
His name is Jesus.
Truth sets us free.
Free to be loved and love one another.
Yes, I agree and have already said I first analyze it to myself, but thank you for the reminder.
If you'd like to go deeper, we can look at instances in Scripture with context that describes truth together.
There is a HUGE link between truth and love. Truth empowers people to love.
Doctrine isn't to control believers, it's to set them free because they ARE free.
His name is Jesus.
Truth sets us free.
Free to be loved and love one another.
Yes, I agree and have already said I first analyze it to myself, but thank you for the reminder.
If you'd like to go deeper, we can look at instances in Scripture with context that describes truth together.
There is a HUGE link between truth and love. Truth empowers people to love.
Doctrine isn't to control believers, it's to set them free because they ARE free.
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Okay my friend.
Then I'll give you straight truth.
You said, "I answered you just fine...but to appease your cleverness, I will say yes. knowing God=loving one another..."
You automatically assumed I was trying to be "clever" instead of what was true is that I was trying to have an intelligent and spiritual conversation with you.
I've already recognized you as someone who is spiritually discerning.
So then let me ask you this: If you truly believe love is our guiding principle shouldn't it be what we FIRST agree on before we build further together?
And this: What spirit/lie are you believing about me to assume I am trying to "twist things" or "manipulate you"?
I'll address those concerns directly.
I have no interest in either of those things.
I am perfectly okay with you disagreeing with me. I simply prefer to understand why someone disagrees with me. Not because they just don't like what I say or have labeled me in "some category".
I'm not here to lead anyone astray. I have no hidden motive. I am not answering you in any certain way. I have no interest in any form of persuasion, manipulation, or 'cleverness'.
I am here for hopefully the same reasons as you to share and also to receive.
Many do call me a teacher, but I do not. At least not with my words, I would much rather my life teach people. And that unfortunately is not something we can see about each other here.
So we have to go with this limited form of communication.
I would love to discuss grace and truth with you once we get passed this hurdle of you questioning my intentions. Tell me when we have.
Then I'll give you straight truth.
You said, "I answered you just fine...but to appease your cleverness, I will say yes. knowing God=loving one another..."
You automatically assumed I was trying to be "clever" instead of what was true is that I was trying to have an intelligent and spiritual conversation with you.
I've already recognized you as someone who is spiritually discerning.
So then let me ask you this: If you truly believe love is our guiding principle shouldn't it be what we FIRST agree on before we build further together?
And this: What spirit/lie are you believing about me to assume I am trying to "twist things" or "manipulate you"?
I'll address those concerns directly.
I have no interest in either of those things.
I am perfectly okay with you disagreeing with me. I simply prefer to understand why someone disagrees with me. Not because they just don't like what I say or have labeled me in "some category".
I'm not here to lead anyone astray. I have no hidden motive. I am not answering you in any certain way. I have no interest in any form of persuasion, manipulation, or 'cleverness'.
I am here for hopefully the same reasons as you to share and also to receive.
Many do call me a teacher, but I do not. At least not with my words, I would much rather my life teach people. And that unfortunately is not something we can see about each other here.
So we have to go with this limited form of communication.
I would love to discuss grace and truth with you once we get passed this hurdle of you questioning my intentions. Tell me when we have.
Lol, I totally agree, when I first started telling people I was saved. People would say so what are you? And I'm like uhhh a Christian! And they were like no no what are you? So, I said, Child of God? And they said no like are you baptist, non-denominational, charismatic, etc? Lol. Labels. Denominationalism separates people into categories they either agree with or don't agree with. One thing that grows me is loving people who I don't agree with their theology. That's something I'm still growing in for sure!
P
Non-OSAS is knowing without doubt that you are presently saved because you are presently believing. There is no 'I hope I'm saved', or 'I hope I stay saved'. You ARE saved as long as you are believing. You are secure in Christ by virtue of your faith. No if's, and's, or but's about it. That's why we are exhorted to keep believing. Stay in the security of your salvation by continuing to hold fast the word of the gospel you first heard and received:
"(Y)ou are saved, if you hold fast the word" (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB).
"23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful" (Hebrews 10:23 NASB)
"24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning." (1 John 2:24 NASB)
"6but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end." (Hebrews 3:6 NASB)
14For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,
"(Y)ou are saved, if you hold fast the word" (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB).
"23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful" (Hebrews 10:23 NASB)
"24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning." (1 John 2:24 NASB)
"6but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end." (Hebrews 3:6 NASB)
14For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,
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And...
"He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard" (Colossians 2:22-23 NASB)
"9Anyone who goes too far and does not abide (continue) in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides (continues) in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son." (2 John 1:9 NASB)
So many Biblical exhortations to continue to believe to remain in Christ and be saved and yet so many people in the church who think it's wrong to believe that you have to continue to believe to remain saved in Christ.
"He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard" (Colossians 2:22-23 NASB)
"9Anyone who goes too far and does not abide (continue) in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides (continues) in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son." (2 John 1:9 NASB)
So many Biblical exhortations to continue to believe to remain in Christ and be saved and yet so many people in the church who think it's wrong to believe that you have to continue to believe to remain saved in Christ.
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Because Jesus said it......so....it must be true......those who trust and push works over faith, in addition to faith or to embellish faith push a false gospel with no power to save......
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE......
To all who embellish with works is seems foolish and wrong that one can just believe to be saved.......
Faith into Jesus alone saves eternally......works do not embellish what we already possess in Christ!
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE......
To all who embellish with works is seems foolish and wrong that one can just believe to be saved.......
Faith into Jesus alone saves eternally......works do not embellish what we already possess in Christ!
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You keep repeating the same dogmatic statements that no one in this thread is in disagreement with. All of us are in agreement that works do not earn or aid in securing salvation. And we are all in agreement that works must accompany salvation, because the Bible says works accompany salvation (Hebrews 6:9-10).
Line one...fits you well...Jesus starts and finishes the faith in All he begins a good work in...NO ONE can lose it....maube your Jesus is not the Jesus of the bible....the one of the bible does not fail as your Jesus does......try real faith began by Jesus.....he completes it and finishes it and does not fail = eternal life