Not By Works

[BillG]

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

For a sinning brother you need 2 or 3 witnesses to corroborate the facts. This is in reference to Matthew 18:16. In this particular passage Jesus didn't say that He would be in the midst of them, only that the truth of the matter regarding the trespass of the brother in question. In my opinion these are two passages are speaking about two entirely different things.

Ok.

Not sure I fully agree. The only reason I post what I did and think it means is because

18:19, 20 This passage specifically refers to church discipline. It is a promise for guidance for the two or three who confront, and a promise for the church to claim wisdom and restoration for the erring brother. (NKJV study bible notes)

v. 16 is not as clear. The principle of witnesses is taken from Deut. 19:15, but what is it the witnesses attest? Evidently they witness that the offended brother is acting in good faith and the right spirit in attempting to work out a reconciliation. They also would be witnesses to any agreement. If this does not bring peace, the offended brother is to report it to the assembly. The church then is to do everything possible to convince the believer who has sinned to be reconciled or to right the wrong. If the erring one will not respond, that person is to be disciplined by being cut off from the fellowship. Such a loss would be extremely(NKJV study bible notes)

“It is with this in mind that Jesus said the Father would grant the request of two or more who gather together in Christ’s name and are in agreement. Agreement on what? On disciplining the erring brother. That’s what this passage is about and yet so many Christians use it as though Jesus promises to answer their prayers when offered in certain situations.”
​

This doesn’t mean that Jesus doesn’t hear our prayers when we pray alone or with two or three people etc. …He does. But it means that this particular verse is not talking about Jesus’ presence in prayer, it’s talking about His presence in church discipline. (Tim Chaffey)

 

[loveme1]

Nobody knows what point you are making by just quoting scripture unless you bold it or something. Then you should comment, but I am not a mod here...so do what you like.

I may be presuming every one Taught by the Spirit is prompted by the scripture.. so the message is the same.. different depths but same Truth.

 

[Stephen63]

I agree...

People are free to believe whatever they want in the sense that they are beings "of choice".

It doesn't mean that it's true or not true.

People are free to believe that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation but that doesn't make it true no matter how much they say it.

Where people are free to believe in what they choose is in the "non-essentials" - like tongues, healing, end of days, kinds of food one eats...observing one day over another....etc.

This concept is talked about by Paul in Romans 14:1-23

Romans 14:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.


Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

What is non-negotiable is the essentials which is in the Deity of Christ, His Person and His finished work on the cross and resurrection.

That we are saved by Christ's death and blood that was shed for us. And this is all based on grace through faith in Him alone. He is the Savior.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

Works do not save us nor keep us saved. We do good works as a fruit of His life being manifested in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace our loving father and Lord have for them.

We are "living epistles" known and read by all men.

Let's let our light shine ( which is Christ Himself in us ) before men that they may see the good works and glorify God. ( to glorify God means to ascribe "goodness" and value to Him )

Aaaannnd the flood of copy/paste continues.....

 

[stonesoffire]

well hardly

I would have you to correct me as you are apparently jumping at what you perceive as a chance to do so

I have not made ONE single comment to, or about you since rejoining and yet you still have to throw a dart

now if you can actually find a post where in I called someone names, or said they were full of malice and slander or I called someone here a heretic, then please refer me to it

I won't hold my breath

no

I don't do those things. I know full well you do not care for my dislike of extra biblical teaching or disagreement with some of what you post, but it might be wise not to use that as a base for false accusations

it's not helpful. you wanna defend G7? be my guest but do so without sniping at me and saying I do things that I don't

Fine. But, I've read too many posts. Not just to me.

 

[stonesoffire]

I may be presuming every one Taught by the Spirit is prompted by the scripture.. so the message is the same.. different depths but same Truth.

I can post the whole bible but there wouldn't be a point to it.

You are being facetious.

 

[UnderGrace]

Calling out false teachers is not practicing lost love, I agree. I absolutely agree there are many false teachers.

But, love is lost in all the division intentionally created by false teachers and Satan

I believe that false teachers, teach falsehoods, to sow discord among the true believers

Do I have an answer to this. No

All I know is, once the Roman church kept truth hidden away from the masses and they lived and breathed in darkness.

Perhaps today this is the cost of each person having a bible?

Calling out false teachers isn't practicing lost love. That seems to be the mantra towards those who expose false teachers though, and frankly it's misplaced.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I agree...

People are free to believe whatever they want in the sense that they are beings "of choice".

It doesn't mean that it's true or not true.

People are free to believe that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation but that doesn't make it true no matter how much they say it.

Where people are free to believe in what they choose is in the "non-essentials" - like tongues, healing, end of days, kinds of food one eats...observing one day over another....etc.

This concept is talked about by Paul in Romans 14:1-23

Romans 14:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.


Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

What is non-negotiable is the essentials which is in the Deity of Christ, His Person and His finished work on the cross and resurrection.

That we are saved by Christ's death and blood that was shed for us. And this is all based on grace through faith in Him alone. He is the Savior.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

Works do not save us nor keep us saved. We do good works as a fruit of His life being manifested in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace our loving father and Lord have for them.

We are "living epistles" known and read by all men.

Let's let our light shine ( which is Christ Himself in us ) before men that they may see the good works and glorify God. ( to glorify God means to ascribe "goodness" and value to Him )

people are not free to believe whatever they want

PLEASE once and for all

point us all to the scripture that identifies that statement as coming from God

you should be busy the rest of your life looking for it and you still will not find it

you can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time

God says CHOOSE but He meant between Himself or sin.

CHOOSE ye this day whom you will serve. KJV but says the same in any version

believe whatever you will sounds more like the serpent beguiling Eve...did God really say?

the light just actually blinds some ... some do not want to really hear the voice of God so they find a Moses

 

[stonesoffire]

In this I do agree seven. I too believe it matters very much what we believe. Is why I keep posting here.

 

[Meggido]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

My imperfection got the best of me again.

drats..........

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree...

People are free to believe whatever they want in the sense that they are beings "of choice".

It doesn't mean that it's true or not true.

People are free to believe that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation but that doesn't make it true no matter how much they say it.

Where people are free to believe in what they choose is in the "non-essentials" - like tongues, healing, end of days, kinds of food one eats...observing one day over another....etc.

If you dis-agree with anything that "they" and their group believes - they feel it is their right to verbally attack you and slander you. It's just the flesh acting up.

These I don't interact with anymore as it just causes strife and divisions and leave them in the hands of the Lord.

This concept is talked about by Paul in Romans 14:1-23

Romans 14:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.


Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

What is non-negotiable is the essentials which is in the Deity of Christ, His Person and His finished work on the cross and resurrection.

That we are saved by Christ's death and blood that was shed for us. And this is all based on grace through faith in Him alone. He is the Savior.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

Works do not save us nor keep us saved. We do good works as a fruit of His life being manifested in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace our loving father and Lord have for them.

We are "living epistles" known and read by all men.

Let's let our light shine ( which is Christ Himself in us ) before men that they may see the good works and glorify God. ( to glorify God means to ascribe "goodness" and value to Him )

I believe I will stick with what I wrote above that we are beings of choice "in the sense" in what we chose to believe but not all choices in believing are accurate.......

Others are 'free" to dis-agree. All is well.....

The Lord will be faithful to reveal Himself to all of us. He loves us dearly!

 

[Magenta]

well that is not true

life is far broader than this forum

off this forum, I really hardly can find anyone that agrees with that statement and I know lots of folks

it's simply a poor excuse to defend being told that the words of Christ are not as important as Paul's, because Christ had not yet died

anyone agreeing with that, is definitely treading on heretical ground

while this forum is an interesting slice of what people believe, I have pretty much concluded it is actually a teaching platform for some who have no other outlet and when that teaching is refuted, well, names are called and people are called not Christian or full of malice and slander or even told not to post

the sites G7 posts from are not accepted Christian beliefs. they are from this new breed of false self appointed apostles and teachers, many with a NAR base. these people are changing the Bible one book at a time

Well, you have just called people heretical, by way of saying they tread on heretical ground, so I am not sure how that negates what UnderGrace said. In fact, it affirms it, whether those others are here or elsewhere.

 

[loveme1]

I can post the whole bible but there wouldn't be a point to it.

You are being facetious.

We have different beliefs... I never read commentaries.. I listen to what the Spirit reveals... Iam being genuine and am now considering much...

 

[stonesoffire]

And on that note...am signing off. I'm caused enough distraction from the thread. I hope though the finger pointing stops.

 

[stonesoffire]

Mine included.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Fine. But, I've read too many posts. Not just to me.

well I KNEW you had no proof

so flip the coin

your coin seems to have the same thing on both sides

I agree with some of what you say, basically nothing of what G7 says anymore now that I understand better what he agrees with and I sure don't agree with your extra biblical excursions and that just may bug you the most

interesting how both you and he are fine with saying we can agree to disagree but BOTH of you prove you don't believe your own press to the tune of multiple occurrences when someone posts something that you do not agree with

you don't like what I post and you are making it personal while saying we should all get along

I know I irritate you. you have pointed that out without actually saying those words multiple times

I got the message way back which is why I don't bother with you

selah

 

[Meggido]

Haa haa! You started this, & now you're accusing me already!

How did I know this was where you were REALLY heading?

by their fruit loops......oh, sorry...by their fruit....Stones is just still radically upset with me, because of me proclaiming truth about Bill, Brian and Jenn Johnson over at Bethel a few months ago...

 

[BillG]

I'm glad yours worked out. I'm still waiting with mine.

Stephen,

To be honest and it may seem a bit weird but when I read posts like yours and others it makes me sad but also I think 'Why did God work it out for me and my mum but at the moment not you and your mum'

I am nothing special to deserve this. I don't know if you noticed but I never mentioned my Father.

I never knew him, only 2 memories. 1st being beaten up by the police when he broke into our flat, he went to hit her, she ducked and smacked me on the nose (still suffer with that) then seeing my step dad beat him up.

Anyway I encourage that whilst still alive there is hope.
I know you are a man who seeks after Gods heart and are led by him, therefore I am confident that you are being led concerning this situation.

Would you mind if I was to pray for you? Not here but as and when I remember to. (I can be quite forgetful so I can't promise to remember every day)

Don't worry about answering that question cause I am gonna do it anyway

Your brother in Jesus.

 

[Stephen63]

And on that note...am signing off. I'm caused enough distraction from the thread. I hope though the finger pointing stops.

As soon as you step out, about half of it will.

 

[Grace777x70]

All context starts and ends with the revelation of the risen Christ Himself. All scripture must be filtered through the finished work of Christ in order to get the context needed when reading all scripture and this means the Lord's words too.

Jesus told the rich young ruler to keep the commandments to have eternal life but is that how we are saved today? No, Jesus used the Law to expose the ruler's need for a Savior because he loved money and had actually broken the 1st commandment.

What do we tell people now in the New Covenant? Not to keep the 10 commandments.

Acts 16:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

[SUP]31 [/SUP] They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Here is a scripture that says that if anyone who has ever sinned against God will be blotted out of the book. This means that all of us have been blotted out of God's book for who has not ever sinned? No one.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.


This is a true statement but it is not the ultimate statement of truth because what Christ did on the cross and resurrection trumps this truth.

Everything in the bible is truly stated but not everything is a statement of ultimate truth.

All, scripture is written "for" us but not all scripture is written"to" us. Don't take someone else's medicine.

We are as reliant on the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ in the scriptures to us as Mary was reliant on the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I agree this CLUB has been raised agaisnt me....get it!?!?!.. LOL

Dear Valued and Beloved Readers...

The game is escalating...here is wisdom and good advice...

Never reply to 2 posters having a conversation about you in an open thread and act like you are not even able to see what they are posting....no here is the hard part.....you cannot reply to them in an open thread or Private message even when you know what they are discussing is something 1 of the posters said to you in several Private Messages, that you never acknowledged or confirmed.... and it is obvious she shared the info via PM to poster number 2, who is projecitng things to play along....This is especially true, when they throw around 5 fold ministry gifts titles they think you are, that you also never acknowledged or confirmed about yourself....always reply to such ear tickling for what it is and say nice things back to them in private messages...

Dear readers... You must resist the urge to reveal what the 1 poster said in PM's about many others on an open thread....they do this to burn you and get you banned....

Dear readers be skeptical when with people saying you are a 5 fold ministry gift, like a Prophet, especially on private messages.....when someone does this under the guise of deceit is not God or the Holy Spirit confirming a call on your life....This is called ear tickling and appealing to ones pride through the use of flattery...Those of us in real life ministry call it a spirit of passive-aggressive control and it is a by-product of the Jezebel Spirit and accuser of the brethren Spirit that seeks to control anyone who speaks the truth of God...and take the focus of the truth of God and instead focus on the faults of the man of God.....




Dear readers,

I would ask yourself if several here should be reported for blatant and malicious attempts to call me something I never claimed or acknowledged to be in a private message or open thread.....

Prophet I am not...proclaiming the truth....I am....

huh

sounds like you and I have had a ride on the same pony at a rundown amusement park

if they took away the pm feature, some would have to exchange personal email info

maybe they have anyway LOL!

Stephen...be careful of the ride if you are not used to the little wild ponies cause I know you know what I am talking about