Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
N
i dont want to argue or cause division
but this is kind of why i posted the verses
im conflicted about one subject
forgive me for the repost but ive been talking to someone about "osas" and this is how i opened up
i dont think "once saved always saved" is correct in the sense you say the sinners prayer and youre good
but ... ok
first heres an example im sure you know
Luke 15:11-32
11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
______________
now, the younger son NEEDED to return to his father and repent EVEN though before he left he was still his son
just feeling sorry
and regretting didnt save him..
his father did
but HE had to return .... and his father was happy to RUN to him while he was still on his way back, and recieve him with open arms
________________
this is where confusion hits
___________
Romans 8:2
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
_______________
Proverbs 24:16
16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
__________________
limited to seven?
no
Matthew 18:21-22
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
_________________
its not a matter of how much we fall
its not a matter of our works
its not a matter of us HAVING salvation
its a matter of belief in Jesus
and LIVING according to the Holy spirit
now someone may have experienced the Holy spirit
heard Gods call
then depart from the faith before getting the gifts
but these people will show it in their fruits
Romans 1:27-28
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
____________
1 Timothy 4
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
_____________
that was then
but to be honest
im still not sure
id say theres no way i can see a genuine faith in Jesus ever being corrupted
but some verses give warnings if im seeing them right
so it makes it hard for me to see osas as the ONLY possibility
(._.')
but this is kind of why i posted the verses
im conflicted about one subject
forgive me for the repost but ive been talking to someone about "osas" and this is how i opened up
i dont think "once saved always saved" is correct in the sense you say the sinners prayer and youre good
but ... ok
first heres an example im sure you know
Luke 15:11-32
11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
______________
now, the younger son NEEDED to return to his father and repent EVEN though before he left he was still his son
just feeling sorry
and regretting didnt save him..
his father did
but HE had to return .... and his father was happy to RUN to him while he was still on his way back, and recieve him with open arms
________________
this is where confusion hits
___________
Romans 8:2
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
_______________
Proverbs 24:16
16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
__________________
limited to seven?
no
Matthew 18:21-22
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
_________________
its not a matter of how much we fall
its not a matter of our works
its not a matter of us HAVING salvation
its a matter of belief in Jesus
and LIVING according to the Holy spirit
now someone may have experienced the Holy spirit
heard Gods call
then depart from the faith before getting the gifts
but these people will show it in their fruits
Romans 1:27-28
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
____________
1 Timothy 4
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
_____________
that was then
but to be honest
im still not sure
id say theres no way i can see a genuine faith in Jesus ever being corrupted
but some verses give warnings if im seeing them right
so it makes it hard for me to see osas as the ONLY possibility
(._.')
Hi all...I know that nothing can separate us from the love of God as Paul goes to a wonderful extreme to tell us 
but what happens to those who separate themselves from the Love of God...God loves us all, saved or unsaved, but people who have been saved and walked many years of their life in the Lord can lose their love, then their hearts harden, i think i see the many warnings in the bible that speaks of this, can`t pull Scripture up to what i am saying, just a thought...Is this not what Hebrews 6 speaks about...xox...
but what happens to those who separate themselves from the Love of God...God loves us all, saved or unsaved, but people who have been saved and walked many years of their life in the Lord can lose their love, then their hearts harden, i think i see the many warnings in the bible that speaks of this, can`t pull Scripture up to what i am saying, just a thought...Is this not what Hebrews 6 speaks about...xox...
I have met such people, who say they believed, that they served in ministry for decades, and did much to assure themselves that they were born again believers, but then turn around and say they were deceived, that they never had an encounter with the Living Lord, it was all ______, and they are now staunch atheists, hardened in their hearts and hostile to God, actively seeking to destroy the faith of those who now believe. Can you say for sure those people were saved to begin with? Their absolute hatred toward believers and the Truth of God's Word stands in such stark contrast to their assertion that they once believed. That looks like a belief of the flesh and not of the Spirit, but is it not true that only God knows their heart in this matter? If someone knows the love of God personally, how could they ever walk away from it? God save us! If God knows us personally, we have entered into a personal relationship with Him through faith in the shed blood of Christ. His promise is that He will never forsake us, He will allow nothing to snatch us out of His hands, for nothing can separate us from the love of God. We do need to guard our hearts, though. For every mile of road there is two miles of ditch, as the saying goes...
Ooookay, G777 said earlier that faithful obedience is believing in Jesus.
Sounded positive, but a blatent lie.
It is typical that cults will tell you all kinds of things that sound positive & biblical, & have absolutely no foundation of truth whatsoever.
But it sounds good..... like when the serpent told Eve their eyes would be opened & they would be like gods knowing good & evil.
First false teacher, first false doctrine.
This other garbage doesn't fall far from the tree.(pun intended)
Sounded positive, but a blatent lie.
It is typical that cults will tell you all kinds of things that sound positive & biblical, & have absolutely no foundation of truth whatsoever.
But it sounds good..... like when the serpent told Eve their eyes would be opened & they would be like gods knowing good & evil.
First false teacher, first false doctrine.
This other garbage doesn't fall far from the tree.(pun intended)
N
Hello Rosemary I have met such people, who say they believed, that they served in ministry for decades, and did much to assure themselves that they were born again believers, but then turn around and say they were deceived, that they never had an encounter with the Living Lord, it was all ______, and they are now staunch atheists, hardened in their hearts and hostile to God, actively seeking to destroy the faith of those who now believe. Can you say for sure those people were saved to begin with? Their absolute hatred toward believers and the Truth of God's Word stands in such stark contrast to their assertion that they once believed. That looks like a belief of the flesh and not of the Spirit, but is it not true that only God knows their heart in this matter? If someone knows the love of God personally, how could they ever walk away from it? God save us! If God knows us personally, we have entered into a personal relationship with Him through faith in the shed blood of Christ. His promise is that He will never forsake us, He will allow nothing to snatch us out of His hands, for nothing can separate us from the love of God. We do need to guard our hearts, though. For every mile of road there is two miles of ditch, as the saying goes...
I have met such people, who say they believed, that they served in ministry for decades, and did much to assure themselves that they were born again believers, but then turn around and say they were deceived, that they never had an encounter with the Living Lord, it was all ______, and they are now staunch atheists, hardened in their hearts and hostile to God, actively seeking to destroy the faith of those who now believe. Can you say for sure those people were saved to begin with? Their absolute hatred toward believers and the Truth of God's Word stands in such stark contrast to their assertion that they once believed. That looks like a belief of the flesh and not of the Spirit, but is it not true that only God knows their heart in this matter? If someone knows the love of God personally, how could they ever walk away from it? God save us! If God knows us personally, we have entered into a personal relationship with Him through faith in the shed blood of Christ. His promise is that He will never forsake us, He will allow nothing to snatch us out of His hands, for nothing can separate us from the love of God. We do need to guard our hearts, though. For every mile of road there is two miles of ditch, as the saying goes...
and now is a new ager....
i cant say he was or was not a true believer
but if i were to look at his life then
and judge it by works
and his daily walk
he looks no different from any man who seeks Gods will over their own
i dont know his heart because i was too young to speak to him about many things and had little to no understanding of my own then
i wonder if one day the Holy spirit will turn him back to repentence or if he was never saved
unbelief:
G570
ἀπιστία
apistia
ap-is-tee'-ah
From G571; faithlessness, that is, (negatively) disbelief (want of Christian faith), or (positively) unfaithfulness (disobedience): - unbelief.
Total KJV occurrences: 12
obey:
G3982
πείθω
peithō
pi'-tho
A primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty): - agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) content, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield.
Total KJV occurrences: 55
Do you see or are you yet stubborn?
Grace777 is correct.
G570
ἀπιστία
apistia
ap-is-tee'-ah
From G571; faithlessness, that is, (negatively) disbelief (want of Christian faith), or (positively) unfaithfulness (disobedience): - unbelief.
Total KJV occurrences: 12
obey:
G3982
πείθω
peithō
pi'-tho
A primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty): - agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) content, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield.
Total KJV occurrences: 55
Do you see or are you yet stubborn?
Grace777 is correct.
A canvas might come in handy And a bowl of fruit, pleasingly positioned beside a vase of beautiful flowers, drooping slightly in the heat of the dwindling evening sun...
View attachment 173936
And a bowl of fruit, pleasingly positioned beside a vase of beautiful flowers, drooping slightly in the heat of the dwindling evening sun...View attachment 173936
You made me laugh...thanks Magenta..
I was a seeker for many years, while also in complete rebellion against God and anything to do with Scripture. People are led to do things for many different reasons; some may enter the ministry because their family wants it, or because they think it will make a nice living. They may be sincere in their religion and rituals, while never being born again of the Holy Spirit of God. Can it be said they have truly surrendered to the will of God? If they are truly surrendered, how can they then walk away, since it is the desire of God that we believe? Yes, there is some terrible disconnect there
Jesus said this about it in Matt 6.22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]“The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
dear readers, someone said that we should go after the spirits and not the person...you have to trust that is what some of us our doing....For far too long the clique has had rule and control.....it is time true darkness is brought into the light....
Dear reader what you should ask yourself is why the attacks and deception is perpetrated on only select people for?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]“The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
dear readers, someone said that we should go after the spirits and not the person...you have to trust that is what some of us our doing....For far too long the clique has had rule and control.....it is time true darkness is brought into the light....
Dear reader what you should ask yourself is why the attacks and deception is perpetrated on only select people for?
Hi all...I know that nothing can separate us from the love of God as Paul goes to a wonderful extreme to tell us but what happens to those who separate themselves from the Love of God...God loves us all, saved or unsaved, but people who have been saved and walked many years of their life in the Lord can lose their love, then their hearts harden, i think i see the many warnings in the bible that speaks of this, can`t pull Scripture up to what i am saying, just a thought...Is this not what Hebrews 6 speaks about...xox...
but what happens to those who separate themselves from the Love of God...God loves us all, saved or unsaved, but people who have been saved and walked many years of their life in the Lord can lose their love, then their hearts harden, i think i see the many warnings in the bible that speaks of this, can`t pull Scripture up to what i am saying, just a thought...Is this not what Hebrews 6 speaks about...xox...
I don't know what to say of the person whose heart becomes hardened after many years of walking with Him. But if considering that person makes you fear more and to trust Him less, it's maybe better to just leave that person to Him. Maybe they are angry with Him over something that happened in their life. If that's the case, He will go after them and bring them back - even if it's on their death bed.
Instead of worrying about this other person, pray for them. The prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
The sower sowed his seed on different types of soil. The soil could pretend something but the heart would eventually show the type of soil.
The good seed on the prepared ground bears the fruit.
Also, I read an article by someone I know who has a healing ministry and is also a pastor. She wrote an article recently and said that we can't tell even if we meet someone and they repeat the sinners prayer, whether it takes root or not. She met someone years after she had ministered to her, and saw that there was the fruit of conversion.
Only God knows at times.
The good seed on the prepared ground bears the fruit.
Also, I read an article by someone I know who has a healing ministry and is also a pastor. She wrote an article recently and said that we can't tell even if we meet someone and they repeat the sinners prayer, whether it takes root or not. She met someone years after she had ministered to her, and saw that there was the fruit of conversion.
Only God knows at times.
Interesting observation.
But it is also missing the point.
If I say Christ I mean Jesus, if I say Messiah, I mean Jesus, if I say Saviour, I mean Jesus.
A lot of people of Jesus's day where also called Jesus so it became Jesus of Nazareth.
Now you could say, why do not people say Jesus of Nazareth.
The label is enough for the reader or listener to understand who is being referred to.
What is the fascination with creating meaningless questions?
But it is also missing the point.
If I say Christ I mean Jesus, if I say Messiah, I mean Jesus, if I say Saviour, I mean Jesus.
A lot of people of Jesus's day where also called Jesus so it became Jesus of Nazareth.
Now you could say, why do not people say Jesus of Nazareth.
The label is enough for the reader or listener to understand who is being referred to.
What is the fascination with creating meaningless questions?
She even thought he might be a prophet!
But you cannot long fake walking in the Spirit in love. I know, because I tried so hard for so long. But it was never going to happen until He dealt with my pride and, much to my chagrin, He cannot seem to deal with it in any way other than letting me take a hard and hideous fall. Pride comes before a hideous fall.
But you cannot long fake walking in the Spirit in love. I know, because I tried so hard for so long. But it was never going to happen until He dealt with my pride and, much to my chagrin, He cannot seem to deal with it in any way other than letting me take a hard and hideous fall. Pride comes before a hideous fall.