Not By Works

[preacher4truth]

this is not the gospel and not scriptural

He was correct. You? Not so much.

What we have below is an unscriptural false gospel of twisted Scriptures with no references, and twisted assumptions on the texts, taken out of context to support said false system:

if we confess out sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins

if someone is caught IN sin (meaning dug in and not just passing through) restore that one

you cannot restore something that has not left. restoration means a return to what was right before it became wrong

Restore here is not to salvation.

You are incorrect and you are really twisting Scripture here. It's a false gospel that you are teaching and this is an unfortunate fact.

Name one theologian that has your take, that says restore here is unto salvation again, or, we could say saved again.

Provide this from one theologian that is well known and orthodox to substantiate your claim.

Now, I imagine your abused text is Galatians 6:1 (unnamed). Please don't use John Gill as a source, Stephen63 tried that and failed - Gill is Reformed and thus "osas." Just a head up for you.

The thing for everybody to understand here is that we must all be aware the Gospel of the church, adhering to the perseverance of the saints, or "osas" has always been part of the true Gospel, and has been held up by the Reformers. They have led the way in this blessed truth.

ignore these NT scriptures at your own peril...you and everyone else who believes these lies are tasty delights

You're twisting them to your peril; 2 Peter 3:16. So be careful here, you're on the wrong track, I've shown you this above.

I could go on and on but it is ALL in the Bible

Please refrain, you're only adding things to Scripture that are not there.

we do not magically become changed

that is nonsense and if someone believes that, they are deceived

If you don't believe that, then you're deceived. The Gospel is transforming to ALL who have believed; 2 Corinthians 3:18ff.

I'll let others take this one up, because this is the kind of thing that is sweeping churches and it is going to send people to the hell they do not believe in

I don't mean you personally, but I think you are swallowing something with a big nasty sharp bone in it

seriously, I'm not going to get further involved because I don't want to get that upset at things I cannot change

people have to change. people have to read the Bible and stop believing this sort of dangerous garbage

You don't "mean him personally" and then tell him he is "swallowing something with a nasty sharp bone in it." No, you meant him personally, that is apparent.

But I believe that is indicative of yourself, and your Scripture twisting dear, not of him or others who believe the Gospel.

Yes, please bow out and allow those who preach the Gospel to do so minus your error.

Thanks.

We don't want people believing the dangerous garbage and twisted Scripture you are conveying (which description you attempt to slather on others) and we certainly don't want you becoming angry over those who believe the truth and believe wholly in their present secured eternal salvation. That people have believed Christ to that extent certainly bothers and irritates others.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Proverbs 15:1 - A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.

Philippians 2:14 - Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Romans 12:19 - Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.


2 Timothy 2:24 - And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient


Proverbs 29:11 - A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise [man] keepeth it in till afterwards.

Galatians Chapter 5


22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[Magenta]

You go black widow, that's your motto to fight to the bitter end until you have no teeth nor claws left, then you'll gum on your own neck.

You're funny

 

[Rosemaryx]

ok I will have t think about this, never heard it before.. lol, but it makes sense, if you have your guilt removed, it can't hurt you, when we feel guilty, we are pretty much dead and useless to God, we are wallowing in self pity,

It yeah, no one was saved truly apart from th cross, OT or NT does not matter,

It`s all about the cross and what Jesus has done for us...The OT was waiting on the promise, we now have the promise...Thank God, i hate to imagine what it was like to sacrifice animals, i could not hurt an animal, thank God for Jesus...My comment here about i am glad i do not have to sacrifice an animal, i say that with all consideration to what Jesus went through before He shed His blood, i hope you understand that i am not saying what i said lightly, i never want to make light of our Lords death...xox...

 

[stonesoffire]

Right about that it's the black widow effect, weave a web of baiting, word twisting, thought projecting, and you have wolf in sheep clothing, the more a person fights back the more the person gets intangled, got to be wise for sure or a person will get sucked into the drama, very sneaky and cunning, can hardly notice if your not looking.

I find it humorous in Canada the two top mega churches are, one being spring church about 8,000 average attendance and the other is centra street church attendance about 7,000. these don't even come close to making the top 50 in the U.S.

People who think other people can't be close in a mega church has never been to one, surely people talk with the people around them at the mega church. Why do people think a mega church congregation don't talk to each other is beyond me. lol

Am surprised at this beyond. And I think it's a reportable offense. If you get reported it's your own fault.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It`s all about the cross and what Jesus has done for us...The OT was waiting on the promise, we now have the promise...Thank God, i hate to imagine what it was like to sacrifice animals, i could not hurt an animal, thank God for Jesus...My comment here about i am glad i do not have to sacrifice an animal, i say that with all consideration to what Jesus went through before He shed His blood, i hope you understand that i am not saying what i said lightly, i never want to make light of our Lords death...xox...

And remember, those lambs were they top lambs, no blemish, not the lowest sickly lambs, it hurt to give those, it was a sacrifice,

thats how god felt felt giving us his son.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You go black widow, that's your motto to fight to the bitter end until you have no teeth nor claws left, then you'll gum on your own neck.

hey bro that's a little steep. Maybe you both need a break from each other,

 

[preacher4truth]

For those opposed to the biblical doctrine of eternal security/osas/perseverance of the saints:

1) If you died now, are you saved, where would you spend eternity?

2) If you died in 3 weeks, or longer, where would you spend eternity?

Please answer the questions. If your answer changes between the two questions, well, we all know it can only mean you are aiding in your eternal salvation by your efforts.

 

[BeyondET]

hey bro that's a little steep. Maybe you both need a break from each other,

Yea it was, but I've seen things far worse from her under the radar stuff that you have to be spiritually aware to see most don't know it, but I apologize because your right it was steep, but I'm hoping some day she will stop using that as a defense tool or something, I don't know where it comes from or why she choices those tactics, but it saddens me and others have been pulled into it.

 

[Rosemaryx]

He was correct. You? Not so much.

What we have below is an unscriptural false gospel of twisted Scriptures with no references, and twisted assumptions on the texts, taken out of context to support said false system:



Restore here is not to salvation.

You are incorrect and you are really twisting Scripture here. It's a false gospel that you are teaching and this is an unfortunate fact.

Name one theologian that has your take, that says restore here is unto salvation again, or, we could say saved again.

Provide this from one theologian that is well known and orthodox to substantiate your claim.

Now, I imagine your abused text is Galatians 6:1 (unnamed). Please don't use John Gill as a source, Stephen63 tried that and failed - Gill is Reformed and thus "osas." Just a head up for you.

The thing for everybody to understand here is that we must all be aware the Gospel of the church, adhering to the perseverance of the saints, or "osas" has always been part of the true Gospel, and has been held up by the Reformers. They have led the way in this blessed truth.



You're twisting them to your peril; 2 Peter 3:16. So be careful here, you're on the wrong track, I've shown you this above.



Please refrain, you're only adding things to Scripture that are not there.



If you don't believe that, then you're deceived. The Gospel is transforming to ALL who have believed; 2 Corinthians 3:18ff.



You don't "mean him personally" and then tell him he is "swallowing something with a nasty sharp bone in it." No, you meant him personally, that is apparent.

But I believe that is indicative of yourself, and your Scripture twisting dear, not of him or others who believe the Gospel.

Yes, please bow out and allow those who preach the Gospel to do so minus your error.

Thanks.

We don't want people believing the dangerous garbage and twisted Scripture you are conveying (which description you attempt to slather on others) and we certainly don't want you becoming angry over those who believe the truth and believe wholly in their present secured eternal salvation. That people have believed Christ to that extent certainly bothers and irritates others.

Hey...As soon as the Holy Spirit came into me i was changed...Ii danced, sang and cried, i prayed and rejoyiced in the Lord, i still do these things, i did none of them before i was saved, yes i prayed not knowing i needed to be saved, so happy God called me, so a BIG YES, a person changes straight away for we become a new creation in Christ, the old self has died, we have a new life...xox...

 

[stonesoffire]

I see what you are saying and agree that we have freedom in believing and God does not do it for us.

What I do not understand in what you have written is what we have to keep believing to continue to be saved?

Isn't it examine ourself to see if we are in faith? That's a whole lot different than keep believing. Emphasis is negative with the latter. We let Holy Spirit search our heart and He's always tender in His evaluation. Gives hope and instruction.

Religion is the club.

Adding to your post UG...not critizing...and you can fix the spelling..I've forgotten it now. lol

 

[BeyondET]

Am surprised at this beyond. And I think it's a reportable offense. If you get reported it's your own fault.

I can be blunt I apologize, but when I'm noticed to it, go do what you have too, I stand for the right up front behaviors, I can forgive very easily someone who says things out of the heat of the moment and not mean it but when folks start trying to get someone's goat and mess with their minds. I won't stand for it, so go ahead and report me.

 

[Magenta]

hey bro that's a little steep. Maybe you both need a break from each other,

I don't need a break from his lies and misrepresentations, I have gotten used to them by now, it is a pattern with him. I would like to better understand why he comes at me the way he does, but he always just goes deeper into misrepresentation and lies, so honesty is not forthcoming from him, and I can accept that too. It's just the way he is, though it would be nice if he stopped.

 

[Rosemaryx]

And remember, those lambs were they top lambs, no blemish, not the lowest sickly lambs, it hurt to give those, it was a sacrifice,

thats how god felt felt giving us his son.

Amen...It makes me realize from what you just said about the lambs being without spot or blemish how much God loves us to give His only Begotten Son for wretches like us, filthy rotten scoundrels, but we are not those things no more, we are the apple of His eye, we are His sons and daughters...xox...

 

[Meggido]

Ok get your point with Abraham but what about David

Romans 4:5-8
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

I know David was under the Mosaic law, yet given what he did he should have put to death under the law for what he did.

That follows on from the verses I posted 1-4

I promise I am not being obtuse here and trying to trip you up.
I hope you know that's not my style.

How were people under the Old Covenant saved?

My point to people is that David could not partake of spiritual benefits of the new covenant, including salvation....and he was saved by the law....

I have never stated anyone under the law was saved....I said an OT saint like David was not saved under spiritual benefits of the new Covenant....that does not mean or should be assumed that I think they were saved under the law...they were not saved under the law and died before the New Covenant was fulfilled...so what choice does that give us, Bill?

Acts 13.36-39
[SUP]36 [/SUP]For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep, and was laid among his fathers and underwent decay; [SUP]37 [/SUP]but He whom God raised did not undergo decay. [SUP]38 [/SUP]Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, [SUP]39 [/SUP]and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

David was never freed from the law of Moses and he died in his sin and underwent decay....because...The Old Covenant sacrificial system did not forgive sin, it only covered[atoned] mans sin....The New Covenant and shed blood of Jesus provided for something the Old Covenant could not do through the blood of bulls and goats and that is the forgiveness of sin.....Jesus had to go get David and the other saints from hell....and he did...

Heb 9.11-14

[SUP]11 [/SUP]But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; [SUP]12 [/SUP]and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, [SUP]14 [/SUP]how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


The basis for the New Covenant is found below...
Jeremiah 31.31-34



[SUP]31 [/SUP]“Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, [SUP]32 [/SUP]not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. [SUP]33 [/SUP]“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. [SUP]34 [/SUP]They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

 

[BeyondET]

You're funny

I apologize for the words, they were strong, but but BUT, stop those tactics, they are not a healthy way of converse with others. It's that simple if you don't comprehend that O well, I tryed.

 

[Meggido]

Hhi Meggido...Am i right in thinking that people in the OT were saved by Faith and made sacrifices of blood to cover their guilt and this was done once a year...But then when Jesus died, His Sacrifice covered all, no more blood needs to be shed, no more going to the high priests to be cleansed, so now we live in the NT, we live by faith through Grace...xox...

I replied to this to Bill

 

[Rosemaryx]

I can be blunt I apologize, but when I'm noticed to it, go do what you have too, I stand for the right up front behaviors, I can forgive very easily someone who says things out of the heat of the moment and not mean it but when folks start trying to get someone's goat and mess with their minds. I won't stand for it, so go ahead and report me.

Hi BeyondET...We have the fruit of the Holy Spirit in us, one is self control, it`s times like this when we have to put it in to practice...xox...

 

[Magenta]

I apologize for the words, they were strong, but but BUT, stop those tactics, they are not a healthy way of converse with others. It's that simple if you don't comprehend that O well, I tryed.

You twisted what I said and misrepresented it and then went on a tirade against me all based on your faulty understanding. It is not the first time and I am sure it won't be the last because you blame me every single time. Your apology is just more empty dishonest words.

 

[stonesoffire]

The one who hates to use verse and chapter numbers so others know where to find it, I've even seen you use verses like they were your own words. You are nothing but a puppet on a string of your master.

What in the world are you so angry about?