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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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The Cross maybe given in love? Was thinking of Jesus saying if He be lifted up...Love of Jesus...that will cause us to die for Him.
How does one go from disobedience to obedience? Repent and believe... Faith that worketh love.
What do you say?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
it means I trust God, what he says to about me, and what he says he did to save me, and what he is offering me,
if I do, I am saved, nothing more, Nothing less
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
by being born again and given the power to be obedient.
Which is done by the power of love, (love of God) we love because he loved us first.
Yet those that obey the works of the Messiah error?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
?? Not sure what you mean.
Who obey's the works of messiah? His children or those who do not trust him? (faith)
Those that Love Him Keep His sayings... that is what He said. Do those who not Trust Him do the Works He gives?
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PHart
Guest
Nope. People without the Spirit can not fake God's love. God's love is so contrary to our natural inclinations that we simply won't do it until we are regenerated and trained up in it's ways.
God's love is a suffering love. People of the world love when it is beneficial to them and it doesn't cost them anything. They love the things and people which please them. God's love seeks what pleases and benefits someone else, particularly it's enemies (you know, the person who doesn't agree with your doctrine, for instance). They can say 'hi' and give out generous gifts and 'like' the posts of those who they agree with and with whom they have no friction with or have family family ties. But they can not walk in God's love which loves it's enemies and those who can not benefit them in any way or pay them back. They can't do that because they don't have the Spirit in them from where that love comes from.
Saved people are signified by this God kind of love, not the love natural people of the world have.
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PHart
Guest
Actually, what the analogy does is demonstrate how you can not automatically assign 'unable to be unsealed' to the definition of 'sealed'. But that is exactly what OSAS does. They redefine 'sealed' to mean 'unable to be unsealed' as if that's what 'sealed' means by definition. If that's true none of us could get to our leftovers in our refrigerators. That might be a good thing for some of us.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Are those who do not trust him saved? Have they ever been saved? John and Paul and James say no, so I trust them
anyway, This (what you just said) is what I have said all along, as does everyone else.
Which is why I said, this is the wrong thread to be discussing christian growth, we are hear to discuss salvation. (new birth)
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
the only issue is Paul tells us how long that seal lasts, "Until the day of redemption" or resurrection day. He gives no other conditions by which that seal could be lost
So should we not take paul at his word. and not try to add to his word?
Now, Meggido, you are judging wrongfully, when you say that about dying. For the truth is that if we are His, born again, that has already happened. Read your bible a little closer.
We all desire to do what the Lord would have us do. The divide here is whether we follow by law, or spirit. And stop blaming others that aren't even here. Lol. Hillsong has nothing to do with this discussion. Try to stay focused, both you and seven.
Again, full surrender happened, God choses by sealing our spirit, baptized us in His power and introduces us to living in the Spirit.
If there is a problem, it came from hellfire and brimstone preachers. Not Hillsong. Now grace being unmerited, but placed on the merits of Jesus alone, also now includes the power of God within us to finish the work started on earth by Jesus.
So so let's reveal what we are now, and who we've become. God is very watchful over His body, so we need to find some happy unity here. If we begin by teaching we are now a spiritual being, and walk in life by His Voice within...sometimes without too, but rarely I think, are we together then in this?
I find most believers to be untaught in the spiritual life we can live, including myself and I too resisted much until God Himself thought it time to instruct. I can be as stubborn as a mule at times, but as I said to you, then we become a target for Holy Spirit. Because He loves to take the stubborn and cause the prideful man that we all have to fall. I think it's His delight actually. I've seen some funny stuff.
Teach the truth in love and add humor.
Drop the club. It only raises another club and then onhigh has a problem. Both the one here and above.
you are suggesting that my post was for those who have already died Christ and and were raised into newness of life and continue into ongoing/practical sanctification......yeah it was not for those few that get that there...it was for those who need to understand who they really are in Christ and to obey and die fully...and be raised into new life...
When Pastors at Hillsong & City Church tell millions in the world that Romans 10.9-10 does not mean what it says, they are apart of the discussion...because they are the main influencers in the body today....even more so than Bethel and Jesus Culture...
Which one of the 82 + were Jesus personal and only deliverance minister?
Yeah all of them......
Maybe instead of some super special single anointed minister, we need to train everyone in the body they have authority for themselves...
That is what would really rock the boats and cause an outpouring...because several could not hide any longer...
The main reason the flame is gone is because most churches , home based or otherwise, preach agaisnt things and not for things...there is no discipleship and teaching people who they are in Christ and what they have available to them in Christ...
Eph 1.3-
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ
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PHart
Guest
...But if we deny Him he will deny us.
There's a difference between being foolishly faithless within your believing, and departing from the faith altogether in an open denial of and departure from Christ. Christ has you covered in the former, because you still believe in Him. But if you deny Him in unbelief you no longer belong to Him that he should have some kind of obligation to remain faithful to you as if you were still a part of His body.
I think you are probably trying distinguish between our believing/ trusting, and the power of faith within us that God gave us as a free gift to make it so we can then believe and trust on Him.
Faith is the supernatural ability to know something is true that you can't know is true in and of yourself (Hebrews 11:1). That is a gift of God. If we choose to embrace that which God has shown us to be true through the gift of faith we respond with our believing/trusting.
It is our trusting/believing that solicits justification/salvation. Simply being shown that the gospel is true through God's gift of faith can't save you until you receive it and place your trust in it. It's the difference between having the ability to believe through the gift of faith, and then believing what you now know to be true. The believing part is what solicits God's favor in salvation. We can't boast in that believing because he gave the power of faith to us to know the gospel was really true in the first place.
I think you confuse things greatly...
Those that Love Him Keep His sayings... so they live by Faith. Having been saved by GOD's Grace through Faith in His Son.
They continue to believe to the saving of their soul.. it is a race... He loves us so we love Him... And walk behind the Good Shepherd on the path of Righteousness.
The Psalm is valid for this thread... it is affirming the Truth.
Some started to believe but then were being bewitched by those who despised the New Testament because they believed not the Messiah's Testimony... and tried to insist they were circumcised and keep the law of Moses and not continue in the law of Faith.
But if you confuse this with those who believe we are to obey the Messiah's instructions then you misuse the verses..
Called, Chosen, Faithful.
Many called but few chosen. Chosen is the sealing done within. Circumcision of the fleshly heart...reborn of Spirit...teaching the faithfulness of God, resulting in our faithfulness.
Give the work of God more credit Phart. He is more powerful in our life than you may think.
We have been given the gifts of Holy Spirit for our edification in the language, and the mission of reconciliation performed through the other giftings.
Pentecost needs to be received that we can go on to glorification.
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PHart
Guest
But he did give a condition for that sealing until the day of redemption....that you continue to believe (1 Corinthians 15:1-2).
You are saved and sealed for the Day of Redemption as long as you are believing. He said the one who is believing is the one who is saved. Not the one who used to believe. Present believing is the condition for remaining sealed until the day of salvation.