Not By Works
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it is so true this discussion board sometimes is less helpful than helpful. 
So many schools of thought. I just stick to the basic message of the gospel.
I found this discussion board when I was going through some self-condemnation that someone else was putting on me, He was telling me I could loose my salvation it I did not follow all the commands of Jesus perfectly and that I better have a veil on my head when I prayed and buying a coffee at Starbucks was a sin, and pictures were idolatry and on and on... I did not really believe him thankfully I do have a brain but it planted a seed of doubt.
I knew from years of group bible study that what he was saying could not be true, all my sins were forgiven.
But I needed to be sure I could not loose my salvation and so in my search, was reading both sides of the argument, but then I found posts by G7 and others like mailmandan, EG and I knew I could not be condemned, God just revealed that truth to me so strongly I cannot even tell you how it removed the bondage I had come under of always looking at my sin.
When you absolutely know you cannot be condemned because of what Jesus has done, you will find you look less at sin and you will sin less. The more you look at sin the more sin conscious you become.
Be still in Him, let Him take care of you...He wants to, He loves you dearly!!!!
"Be still, and know that I am God!
Psalm 46:10
So many schools of thought. I just stick to the basic message of the gospel.I found this discussion board when I was going through some self-condemnation that someone else was putting on me, He was telling me I could loose my salvation it I did not follow all the commands of Jesus perfectly and that I better have a veil on my head when I prayed and buying a coffee at Starbucks was a sin, and pictures were idolatry and on and on... I did not really believe him thankfully I do have a brain but it planted a seed of doubt.
I knew from years of group bible study that what he was saying could not be true, all my sins were forgiven.
But I needed to be sure I could not loose my salvation and so in my search, was reading both sides of the argument, but then I found posts by G7 and others like mailmandan, EG and I knew I could not be condemned, God just revealed that truth to me so strongly I cannot even tell you how it removed the bondage I had come under of always looking at my sin.
When you absolutely know you cannot be condemned because of what Jesus has done, you will find you look less at sin and you will sin less. The more you look at sin the more sin conscious you become.
Be still in Him, let Him take care of you...He wants to, He loves you dearly!!!!
"Be still, and know that I am God!
Psalm 46:10
...I had a nice bath and read some Psalms...Normally when i fall i feel so condemned that it would take me 5 days just to get over it, Praise God for His word, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus...Another thing, last nights fall showed me just how much the Lord is changing me, i through the rest of the wine away, i did not get drunk, and the times apart from each drinking episode are becoming further and further apart...I will keep Praising Him and thanking Him for each link that He breaks from the chain that had me bound...xox...now, come on, don't do any research and make your own decisions. just let the religious controllers tell you who's bad, who's good etc........ it's there job to judge, by their opinions, and then shout down, threaten with loss of salvation, hell etc.... anyone who disagrees with them. not the Bible, not the Gospel, but with them.
good for you for caring enough about what you believe to want to fact check it.
good for you for caring enough about what you believe to want to fact check it.
If no one says "What?..are you saying people can just go and sin all we want now because of grace?" ..if no one says that - then you are not preaching the gospel of the grace of Christ.
No one is saying to go out and sin all you want now because of grace but people should be accusing you of saying that if you are really preaching the same gospel that Paul preached.
He was continuously slandered with this same accusation. In 4x times alone in Romans Paul had to come against those that were accusing Paul of being antinomian.
The grace of God teaches us how to live godly in this present world as Titus 2:11-12.
Sin is stupid and against our new nature in Christ which is created in righteousness and holiness. Sin is deceitful and will destroy us on this earth as well as those we love and ruins our witness for the Lord.
But sin does not take away our eternal life in Christ. Our spirit is safe in Christ because we are in Him and it is His finished work that brings eternal salvation to us. Only the willful sinning of unbelief in receiving Christ's sacrifice for sins is what condemns people now. Heb 10:26
Make no mistake about it..the gospel of the grace of Christ is scandalous and it is offensive to us that are engaged in self-righteousness or works-based righteousness instead of "faith-righteousness" - which is only found in Christ's work of grace through faith in Him alone.
No one is saying to go out and sin all you want now because of grace but people should be accusing you of saying that if you are really preaching the same gospel that Paul preached.
He was continuously slandered with this same accusation. In 4x times alone in Romans Paul had to come against those that were accusing Paul of being antinomian.
The grace of God teaches us how to live godly in this present world as Titus 2:11-12.
Sin is stupid and against our new nature in Christ which is created in righteousness and holiness. Sin is deceitful and will destroy us on this earth as well as those we love and ruins our witness for the Lord.
But sin does not take away our eternal life in Christ. Our spirit is safe in Christ because we are in Him and it is His finished work that brings eternal salvation to us. Only the willful sinning of unbelief in receiving Christ's sacrifice for sins is what condemns people now. Heb 10:26
Make no mistake about it..the gospel of the grace of Christ is scandalous and it is offensive to us that are engaged in self-righteousness or works-based righteousness instead of "faith-righteousness" - which is only found in Christ's work of grace through faith in Him alone.
The Holy Spirit cannot abide with sin, so sin HAD to be fully forgiven for the Holy Spirit to abide in us (who were born into sin)
When we walk in Love with Him, and focus on Him, we are more effective, more loving, more at peace, more able to forgive.
I truly didn't understand peace (as a saved Christian) until I fully understood His Grace and Mercy.
I now read the scriptures from the light of His forgiveness and grace.
I understand them so much more and want to read them so much more.
It is literally like someone snuck in an rewrote them while I was asleep.
They didn't obviously, but the 1st step to maturity as a babe in Christ is understanding Grace, Forgiveness and Salvation.
Hi EG...Yes i get that now, SOF pointed out also that it was me doing the work, doing the clinging, doing the holding on for dear life...Now as you said also, it is He who is holding me with His Righteous right hand ...xox...
...xox...
its not as if we have a specail Breathing method and go into a transe and Now God takes our members over like a puppet, God works through Us by His Word living in us. His word in us becomes the power ffor us to do, notice How these are written.
phil 4:13 "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
I can do all thing through Christ who gives me the strength"
phil 3: Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. "
not as though the work is done and im already saved, but i press toward the mark, i reach forth to apprehend that which i Know Jesus has apprehended Me also. we should always Know God is with us and is Our strength and source, but quite forewardly, there is much to be done in the world, and the Ones who actually go to work are the ones being used By God. its not a magical, inhabitation like a possession where God now controls us, we have to follow His words to freedom and sight. Love is action to God, what we do, matters very much. we should never Lose the fear of God that Keeps us moving Foreward, and never forget the comfort and supply of God also. i sure dont Know about anyone else but a chirstian Life is not an easy thing it takes everything we have and gives Back many fold over, but all our effort should be always applied. Grace and our efforts are not opposed, the thought that because God gives Grace Now were not suppose to commit our Lives to His Word with all our heart, His word teaches us to actually do what He says to do. people will explain why thats wrong because of this or that principle, But Gods Word in the 4 Gospels teaches His disciples to go to work in His true Love that He taught the World.
Teaches repentance, obedience, pressing foreward, carrying our own Cross, Notice Jesus says " If anyone will come after me He must lay Himself down, pick up His cross and follow me." thats the attitude the disciples and paul shows so frequently there in those examples, and so many other areas in the epistles. Our attitudes should be we Love God so Much we want to Learn His ways and put them into Practice, we want to do all we can for Jesus because of all He did for us. Him working through us is His words that change Our mind to action sanctifying our Lives. its the fire baptism the " refiners fire" the gospel changes Minds and Hearts but we have to take it to Heart and believe it and do it because thats what it says
That's a great idea - make sure you go and listen from what is "actually being said" and not what is being twisted to try to make it appear to be something different. There are heretic hunters websites all over the internet and they basically call everyone that doesn't believe what they do about a subject - a heretic.
The original term was brought in by another minister that didn't agree with some things others were teaching about the gospel of the grace of God in Christ. It has then become a derogatory term used by some people to disparage the grace of God but some have used the term to make "lemonade" out of the lemons being thrown at them.
And sometimes we can just agree to dis-agree too as none of us agrees with every thing in all subjects but the mods have requested we not use the term anymore because of the foul behavior it brings up amongst us.
Here is the website from the "horse's mouth."
Why I am Hyper-Grace: Answering Five Common Objections
The original term was brought in by another minister that didn't agree with some things others were teaching about the gospel of the grace of God in Christ. It has then become a derogatory term used by some people to disparage the grace of God but some have used the term to make "lemonade" out of the lemons being thrown at them.
And sometimes we can just agree to dis-agree too as none of us agrees with every thing in all subjects but the mods have requested we not use the term anymore because of the foul behavior it brings up amongst us.
Here is the website from the "horse's mouth."
Why I am Hyper-Grace: Answering Five Common Objections
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There is no such thing as hyper grace..It's just grace, pure and simple. The bible says NOTHING about hyper grace..Also if anyone IS making hyper grace threads here, please read the sticky made by CS1 which states NO debating hyper grace or making threads on it..
I don't know why people attempt to turn grace into something that it isn't.. You cannot add to or take away from grace..
I don't know why people attempt to turn grace into something that it isn't.. You cannot add to or take away from grace..
E
So so we are back to square one, your claiming you have to add your power, or your strength, or you work to stay saved, so how is this different that saying one must work to be saved.
think about it, from my perspective you are claiming you do not trust that God will finish the work, when he said he will, will hold on to you and never let you fall, you can pull away from him, has given you eternal life, it is instead conditional, based on something you have to continue to do.
like I said, I am not judging you, just telling you what I see.
Do do you trust in God to hold you, because you have become poor in spirit, or do you trust in your ability to continue to hold on to him?
I find it is helpful to listen to the man speak himself than to accept what another man says about him. I will listen to quite a few videos by a man to hear for myself what he says and if it helps me grow in trust or not. If it makes me fear instead of trust, I just don't listen to him. If he helps me to trust more, I listen.
Even our own courts of law allow a man to speak for himself. We should allow that too, before we decide what someone says about him is true.
Even our own courts of law allow a man to speak for himself. We should allow that too, before we decide what someone says about him is true.
N
Romans 1:27-28
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
____________
1 Timothy 4
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
____________________
even so
__________________
Hebrews Chapter 6
4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
_________________
both are true seeing as how scripture is inspired
this to me this sounds like the "knowledge" of God those refused to retain never beared any fruit... they had understanding without faith (those in romans) or a dead false faith
and those in timothy had a dead faith to begin....
but what if as it says in hebrews
" If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance"
if they die in thier fallen state?
in that moment
what if their "fallen state" is belief in self?
im not trying to cause division
and sorry if im not making sense
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
____________
1 Timothy 4
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
____________________
even so
__________________
Hebrews Chapter 6
4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
_________________
both are true seeing as how scripture is inspired
this to me this sounds like the "knowledge" of God those refused to retain never beared any fruit... they had understanding without faith (those in romans) or a dead false faith
and those in timothy had a dead faith to begin....
but what if as it says in hebrews
" If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance"
if they die in thier fallen state?
in that moment
what if their "fallen state" is belief in self?
im not trying to cause division
and sorry if im not making sense
I find it is helpful to listen to the man speak himself than to accept what another man says about him. I will listen to quite a few videos by a man to hear for myself what he says and if it helps me grow in trust or not. If it makes me fear instead of trust, I just don't listen to him. If he helps me to trust more, I listen.
Even our own courts of law allow a man to speak for himself. We should allow that too, before we decide what someone says about him is true.
Even our own courts of law allow a man to speak for himself. We should allow that too, before we decide what someone says about him is true.
For example : Many believe there were 3 wise men at the birth of Jesus. There is no scripture that says that - in fact it says the complete opposite.
I always ask myself 3 questions about truth or a teaching.
1) Does it make Jesus bigger in your heart when you see His work and majesty?
( Or does it bring fear and insecurity because you are not "doing" enough to stay saved? )
2) Does it make you depend on Jesus and His finished work?
( or does it depend on what you do and depend on yourself?)
3) Does it make you fall deeply in love with your Lord, our Father and with all people?
(Or does it make you view others as accursed, hated by God...etc - even though He loves them so much He sent His Son to die for them )
If I can answer these questions in the affirmative - then it is the good news of the grace of Christ.
We can view scriptures through the lens of the Old Covenant and then try to mix in a little of the New Covenant and we end up in mess of "working to maintain" our own righteousness for going to heaven.
When ever we don't factor in the finished work of Christ nor the real purpose for Jesus dying for us - the fact that God loves us dearly and He is not looking for ways to keep people from Him - we will end up in error as we are mixing up the covenants.
Bearing fruit stems from the life of Christ in us. He is the Vine we are the branches. The branch does not produce it's own fruit. It bears the life of the Vine.
The fruit of the Spirit being produced is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, meekness, goodness, faith and self-control. Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit of God living in us - not a product of self-effort in the flesh. There are counterfeits of all these fruit that the flesh can try to generate but they are not from God.
There is good fruit and bad fruit of the flesh - but it is still flesh. Outwardly these are sometimes hard to discern. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil had both types of fruit on it. Don't eat from that tree.
Eat from the tree of life - Christ = who is inside of us wanting to bear His fruit in and through us to a hurt and dying world as well as to our fellow brethren. We are one with Him in the spirit.
Let's keep beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord and the Holy Spirit will transforms us outwardly to reflect our true nature in our new creations in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.
E
Gods power...I have the power of the Holy Spirit in me, He leads me , guides me, goes in front and behind, He is my power, and not forgetting my FAITH...xox...
...xox...
as john said again (yes I love John, he walked with Christ and had a very special relationship). I write the words to you so you may KNOW you HAVE ETERNAL LIFE and by it, continue to believe in his name.
The power to keep us believing is is our knowledge of what we have in Christ, if we think we can lose what we have, we may continue to believe, and continue to play chuch, but more then likely we will fall and walk away, because we are forced to live in fear, even if we deny it is fear.
I fear eat many thousands will walk in front of Jesus on judgment day thinking they are saved only to be told depart from me.
Thats a scary thought,
E
I find it is helpful to listen to the man speak himself than to accept what another man says about him. I will listen to quite a few videos by a man to hear for myself what he says and if it helps me grow in trust or not. If it makes me fear instead of trust, I just don't listen to him. If he helps me to trust more, I listen.
Even our own courts of law allow a man to speak for himself. We should allow that too, before we decide what someone says about him is true.
Even our own courts of law allow a man to speak for himself. We should allow that too, before we decide what someone says about him is true.
We also have to see to see what his gospel is, most likely many of us have differences in outward doctrines, but the gospel is what is important,
hypergrace is being attacked because of its WOF content, I do not agree with WOF at all, but I have yet seen anyone prove their gospel is wrong. Period.