Not By Works

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TruthTalk said:
This is a broad sweeping insult and fallacious remark - "You can explain it 6 ways from Sunday and they will never get it."Please do explain with bible verses.

Not sure if I understand your sympathy to Judas; he betrayed our Lord.
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Basically he's calling everyone he refers to lost.
 
stonesoffire said:
I agree here Meggido, but this is Sonship in maturity. I can see why some things you are saying is getting blasted. Same as me saying I hear from the Lord and then write. Some think it's boasting, but it's not. I know they aren't my words. I'm not that smart.
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To be quit honest, I see it this way....eternal security adherents know about their condition, but have no real revelation about their position....Works and performance based salvation workers know about their position, but have no real revelation about their condition....
 
eternally-gratefull said:
It still does does not mean that those who think they have to work to maintain of keep saved have truly repented, they are still trusting in self. Not God.
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I was trusting in self to finish what was started in the Spirit and He still didn't abandon me or leave me there.

In fact, I only recently (maybe in this very thread, I don't remember) truly became what you would call OSAS. Prior to that, I thought I was abiding of my own self. I finally saw I wasn't. And yet, I walked with Him for over 10 years. It is really true that a small seed of faith grows into a huge tree of faith!
 
Stunnedbygrace said:
I've talked enough about me. I want to hear about someone elses struggles and what they're currently working out or perplexed by or what they're struggling in trust with or what He's shown them! I don't always have as much time in here any more so I want to hear about you guys more than I want to blab about myself. Always turns in:mad:to blabbing about myself though...
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your blabbing is blessing people...stop trying to stop yourself...
 
Stunnedbygrace said:
I was trusting in self to finish what was started in the Spirit and He still didn't abandon me or leave me there.

In fact, I only recently (maybe in this very thread, I don't remember) truly became what you would call OSAS. Prior to that, I thought I was abiding of my own self. I finally saw I wasn't. And yet, I walked with Him for over 10 years. It is really true that a small seed of faith grows into a huge tree of faith!
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You were trusting in self to save or keep saved, because you did not think the cross was enough

or to try to grow or become sanctified in your own power (which we all have done)

huge difference here.
 
Meggido said:
To be quit honest, I see it this way....eternal security adherents know about their condition, but have no real revelation about their position....Works and performance based salvation workers know about their position, but have no real revelation about their condition....
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Not all eternal security adherents havent moved from sin conscienceness to righteousness minded. It actually strengthens eternal security to think what the Lord has created us to be rather than what we died to. More understanding is needed, and blindness, partial blindness needs removed. IMO.

As far as works based, this gets confused easily in both camps as to what kind of works are done. And to me security is lost. Again. MO.
 
stonesoffire said:
Not all eternal security adherents havent moved from sin conscienceness to righteousness minded. It actually strengthens eternal security to think what the Lord has created us to be rather than what we died to. More understanding is needed, and blindness, partial blindness needs removed. IMO.

As far as works based, this gets confused easily in both camps as to what kind of works are done. And to me security is lost. Again. MO.
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I do not believe works get me saved or keep me saved, but I do not believe my free chose is taken away when I get saved....I can walk away from saving faith....Jesus is still there and so is Father, they have not left me or forsaken me.......I walk away....
 
Meggido said:
I do not believe works get me saved or keep me saved, but I do not believe my free chose is taken away when I get saved....I can walk away from saving faith....Jesus is still there and so is Father, they have not left me or forsaken me.......I walk away....
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Let me say this. :) To walk away from pure love just cannot happen. If one turns back to sin, it speaks to me that there's an idol yet reigning. Does God leave us in this state when we are born of His very own seed? Spiritually within the heart of our being. And are we ever at rest in our soul? I say no. Eventually we will break for He will pursue us and literally cause us to see how much He loves, and won't let us go.

That is how I see Him chastening. Also, a taste of spiritual living, and the miracles? What compares? Absolutely nothing!
 
When did Satan first accuse?


Cee said:
Salvation is the doorway into the Kingdom of God. We are reborn into His Kingdom. He gives us spiritual eyes to see according to the Spirit. He tells us what He sees. And we by faith agree with Him and begin to see as He does.

Here's how this plays out:

If we don't believe we are saved, the only eyes we have left to see out of are fleshly and carnal. This is being conformed to the world. The world determines what believe, what is true, and who we are in this state of mind.

If we believe we are not a new creation, our eyes are on ourselves to try to be something we are not. This is a very religious mindset, it's the older brother who worked in the fields without joy. He waited for his Father to throw the party for him. Even though he had access to what the Father did through his inheritance.

If we don't believe other people are a new creation in Christ, we will tear them down instead of building them up. We will see them by the flesh instead of by the Spirit. Satan was the first accuser. God was the first Redeemer. Which Spirit are we of? This is something I am myself working out through relationship with God. Because I do value truth so much, I have a tendency to come against lies with a hammer of truth, but Paul tells us that it is love that never fails.

I believe there is a higher truth than simply principles we argue about. I believe the higher truth is who Christ is in us and who we are in Him. Speaking to one another and in truth is correcting people back to who they truly are. Getting their minds off the carnal only option and back to being renewed by His truth about them.

This is something I'm growing in myself. Not reacting to lies, but respond to His truth.
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eternally-gratefull said:
You were trusting in self to save or keep saved, because you did not think the cross was enough

or to try to grow or become sanctified in your own power (which we all have done)

huge difference here.
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I don't know if I can fully say...I thought continued and growing trust was necessary in order to not be cut off. And I still believe that.

Where my thinking on it has suddenly changed is that...I thought the remaining in trust was of me and now I see it never was. He was the one showing me where I wasn't trusting/abiding in a certain area. He was the one who began every struggle to more fully believe Him. And He is the one who continues to lead me into those struggles by showing me another area, then another, where I'm saying I'm trusting but then am not fully trusting.

I struggled a long time with fully trusting that He would not let me be on the street or living on a park bench because of my poverty. I still struggle in it sometimes. My mind and everything in me wants to listen to the world and believe that one day He may not give me enough. Everything in me seems to want to go the way of the world and worry that I only have enough stored for the day and so I'll be eating cat food in my old age.

EVERYTHING in me wants to store treasure on earth rather than listening to Him and trusting that He will send manna again tomorrow morning. EVERYTHING in me wants to do as Israel and disobey and not heed and collect more than enough for the day. EVERYTHING in me wants to insist I should do it and that it won't turn to worms.

Sometimes the clamor becomes too great and I just say: shut up! He knows what I need and I'm not to worry about tomorrow, what I'll eat, how I'll keep a roof over my head, HE is my security, not treasure stored on earth!
 
stonesoffire said:
Let me say this. :) To walk away from pure love just cannot happen. If one turns back to sin, it speaks to me that there's an idol yet reigning. Does God leave us in this state when we are born of His very own seed? Spiritually within the heart of our being. And are we ever at rest in our soul? I say no. Eventually we will break for He will pursue us and literally cause us to see how much He loves, and won't let us go.

That is how I see Him chastening. Also, a taste of spiritual living, and the miracles? What compares? Absolutely nothing!
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That is fine and we disagree and all without undue harm to anyone...
 
Meggido said:
When we graduate beyond our constant need for approval and validation from the master, he expects us to understand that we should be at one with him, so we also can walk on the storm as he did and deliver people out it....and that even means getting shipwrecked with others like Paul did....

Someone posted a very sure truth...beside the flesh show going on here[I am guilty myself of getting upset and being defensive] it seems things are lost in translation because of the different spiritual maturity levels on this board...

This will absolutely be taken the wrong way and the usual suspects[not you]will pounce on it and use it against me like they do with other things I say, but bears saying....and is a general statement not directed towards anyone...

Sooner or later you have to grow out of the comfy grace diapers and gird yourself up and walk in the authority, power, call, send and anointing that grace purchased for you...the only reason why grace is amazing is so that we become laborers in the harvest....Walking in remembrance of what grace did for you becomes instinctive as you spiritually mature and become one with him...you do not always have to check it out, remind yourself of it...you know, because it is in him we love, move and have our being....
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I agree that as we mature, we become more of a listener to Him, and as a result we will live our lives with God living in and through us. Participating in His Kingdom, in Him, and Him in our life.

But that comes out of His love for us. And yes then our love for Him, as a relationship in the Spirit.

Not from what we perceive our good works should be. God might have one thing for us to do, and one thing only, and if we fail at that one thing He still lets us live in His Kingdom. We may fail because we are so busy doing things that are not from Him, that we fail to listen. Who knows what the reason, but He doesn't kick us out!

People maintain that their works are of God all of the time, when they may not even be from God. I don't say STOP doing that work, it makes no difference to me. Just don't come at me saying I must do those works also, or else I am not a Christian, or I don't know my God. Especially when they don't know me, my heart, or what God's plan is for me.
 
Stunnedbygrace said:
Okay, I read the rest of your post EG.

I look at the verse about poor in spirit in a different way. You say we must become poor in spirit/spiritually bankrupt. I think we already ARE poor in spirit but just haven't realized it yet sometimes. That's how it went with me anyway. I had to keep trying to be good because I couldn't see or admit yet that I had nothing with which to accomplish being good. I just thought He had saved me and I owed it to Him to do as He said.. (There were some other motivations mixed up in that too, but the main one was a desire to actually BE good after what He'd done for me.)
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Hi SBG...I believe those poor in spirit are those who are meek and mild, gentle and come against hostility from the world yet walk in the Lord no matter what...xox...
 
TruthTalk said:
Thank you, yes I am aware that I am positionally righteous (not guilty) before God; And I am seated with Christ in the heavenly places; "And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus" Eph2:6

The issue was not about my position in Christ; the issue was he said something I never said; it was a lie, and I needed to correct his false accusation.

"His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness." 2Peter1:3
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there is no such thing a positional righteousness, it was invented by men like Luther, and it can't be found anywhere in the text. Only manifest reality is true....one is righteous by simply doing what is right said the apostle John, and one is of the devil by partaking of sin..both are manifest realities which produce either good fruit or evil fruit ..be blessed
 
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