The Rapture
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This is yer "rapture" right here in the 1st century AD:
Rom 8:23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption(Greek - apolutrosis) of our body.
Luke 21: 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
Luke 21:28 But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption (Greek - apolutrosis) is drawing near.”Strongs
G629 apolutrosis ap-ol-oo'-tro-sis
from a compound of G575 and G3083;
(the act) ransom in full, i.e. (figuratively) riddance, or (specially) Christian salvation.
KJV: deliverance, redemption.
--------------------------------------
It's clear from Jesus' statement in Luke that redemption was arriving when his hearers saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies in the war of 66-70AD.
Paul's use of the same Greek word apolutrosis is an indicator that he had the same event in mind for which they were waiting eagerly, not something that would occur 1970 years and counting.
One does not wait eagerly for something hundreds of years in their future.
Locutuses believe it or not....
Rom 8:23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption(Greek - apolutrosis) of our body.
Luke 21: 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
Luke 21:28 But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption (Greek - apolutrosis) is drawing near.”Strongs
G629 apolutrosis ap-ol-oo'-tro-sis
from a compound of G575 and G3083;
(the act) ransom in full, i.e. (figuratively) riddance, or (specially) Christian salvation.
KJV: deliverance, redemption.
--------------------------------------
It's clear from Jesus' statement in Luke that redemption was arriving when his hearers saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies in the war of 66-70AD.
Paul's use of the same Greek word apolutrosis is an indicator that he had the same event in mind for which they were waiting eagerly, not something that would occur 1970 years and counting.
One does not wait eagerly for something hundreds of years in their future.
Locutuses believe it or not....
To coin an expression IT IS AS PLAIN AS THE NOSE ON YOUR FACE, you willfully blind yourself to seeing it.
EVERYTHING IN DANIEL'S 70 week Prophecy is in Cronological ORDER. THE MESSIAH IS CUT OFF BEFORE the 70th WEEK BEGINS, and it specifically says MESSIAH IS CUT OFF AFTER the 62 Weeks are completed. THEREFORE that is the CHURCH AGE GAP. HIS DEATH IS NOT IN THE 69th WEEK, and Neither is it in the 70th Week. PLAIN AS THE NOSE ON YOUR FACE.
Daniel 9:25-27 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince {The Leader of the Roman Empire - Iron legs Empire.} who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end {The TIME OF THE END.} there will be war; desolations are determined.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "And he {The Leader of the Revived Roman Empire - Feet and Toes of Iron Mixed with Clay Empire.} will make a firm covenant with the many {Israel and her enemies} for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."
NOTICE THAT 70TH WEEK BEGINS WITH THE PEACE COVENANT, AFTER THE MESSIAH WAS CUT OFF, AND AFTER THE 70 A.D. Destruction of the TEMPLE and JERUSALEM, AND AFTER WE ARRIVE AT THE TIME OF THE END through continuous Wars after Wars. THERE IS YOUR CHURCH AGE GAP IN PLAIN SIGHT, THAT YOU WILLFULLY BLIND YOURSELF TO.
Wille, you disappoint me with that answer, because the Meaning is OBVIOUS.
2 Peter 1:20-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] for prophecy never came by the will of man,
but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
What a mess this whole site is...so many different beliefs yet one God.
Can someone (or each belief) bring their belief up to date please. OUR future...THIS generation.
How does it effect us BELIEVERS in our Lord today in other words, and what is our future ???
For instance... I THINK Preterits say all is past so Jesus rules now, no great tribulation before us no rapture and no peace.
So live and die as we all going to heaven. (to hell with the earth, God's creation)!!!!
Then I THINK pretrib say we are raptured, then the great trib on earth, then we touch down on earth again. So...can we fly now?
Do we have everlasting life now? As that comes with being able to de-materialize to spirit form, and at will materialize as man ?
So... dispensation, midtrib, post trib or WHATEVER ...PLEASE show your GOOD NEWS for us believers in our Lord Jesus.
Please summarize your truth each of you... applicable for TODAY and TOMORROW.
We seek TRUTH...don't we ?
OR...do we seek a belief to tickle the ear ?
Can someone (or each belief) bring their belief up to date please. OUR future...THIS generation.
How does it effect us BELIEVERS in our Lord today in other words, and what is our future ???
For instance... I THINK Preterits say all is past so Jesus rules now, no great tribulation before us no rapture and no peace.
So live and die as we all going to heaven. (to hell with the earth, God's creation)!!!!
Then I THINK pretrib say we are raptured, then the great trib on earth, then we touch down on earth again. So...can we fly now?
Do we have everlasting life now? As that comes with being able to de-materialize to spirit form, and at will materialize as man ?
So... dispensation, midtrib, post trib or WHATEVER ...PLEASE show your GOOD NEWS for us believers in our Lord Jesus.
Please summarize your truth each of you... applicable for TODAY and TOMORROW.
We seek TRUTH...don't we ?
OR...do we seek a belief to tickle the ear ?
I think I stand alone in this thread on my beliefs but here ya go.
The 70 weeks are 70 literal weeks to build the new Jerusalem and were completed at Pentecost.
The great tribulation was the tribulation the Jews faced after Christ died.
The first resurrection started at the resurrection of Christ and the old testament saints.
The wrath of God was poured out on Jerusalem in AD 70.
Jesus is coming again to start the milennial reign along with the rapture and completion of the first resurrection.
The milennial reign begins and Satan is bound a thousand years.
I don't know what comes after that.
The 70 weeks are 70 literal weeks to build the new Jerusalem and were completed at Pentecost.
The great tribulation was the tribulation the Jews faced after Christ died.
The first resurrection started at the resurrection of Christ and the old testament saints.
The wrath of God was poured out on Jerusalem in AD 70.
Jesus is coming again to start the milennial reign along with the rapture and completion of the first resurrection.
The milennial reign begins and Satan is bound a thousand years.
I don't know what comes after that.
Again, please show me where Polycarp provides the date? You are only showing me a vague reference to "knowing" the Lord which has several connotations. There are many alive walking the earth today that don't "know" the Lord, but does it mean they don't exist? Again, there are a lot of churches today that don't "know" the Lord but these church are in existence.
Sorry friend, but I repeat. This is a very, very thin argument. Even assuming you are correct that Polycarp meant Smyrna wasn't founded when Paul wrote to the Philippians (61-62 AD) there were still 7-8 years for it to have been founded before 70 AD.
You then have Acts 19:10 to deal with:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And this continued for two years, so that all who dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.
Smyrna was one of the largest cities in Asia Minor and would have certainly been a priority for Paul to establish a church there. Now don't make me give you a drawing board too
.
Sorry friend, but I repeat. This is a very, very thin argument. Even assuming you are correct that Polycarp meant Smyrna wasn't founded when Paul wrote to the Philippians (61-62 AD) there were still 7-8 years for it to have been founded before 70 AD.
You then have Acts 19:10 to deal with:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And this continued for two years, so that all who dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.
Smyrna was one of the largest cities in Asia Minor and would have certainly been a priority for Paul to establish a church there. Now don't make me give you a drawing board too
.
This is yer "rapture" right here in the 1st century AD:
Rom 8:23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption(Greek - apolutrosis) of our body.
Luke 21: 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
Luke 21:28 But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption (Greek - apolutrosis) is drawing near.”Strongs
G629 apolutrosis ap-ol-oo'-tro-sis
from a compound of G575 and G3083;
(the act) ransom in full, i.e. (figuratively) riddance, or (specially) Christian salvation.
KJV: deliverance, redemption.
--------------------------------------
It's clear from Jesus' statement in Luke that redemption was arriving when his hearers saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies in the war of 66-70AD.
Paul's use of the same Greek word apolutrosis is an indicator that he had the same event in mind for which they were waiting eagerly, not something that would occur 1970 years and counting.
One does not wait eagerly for something hundreds of years in their future.
Locutuses believe it or not....
Rom 8:23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption(Greek - apolutrosis) of our body.
Luke 21: 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
Luke 21:28 But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption (Greek - apolutrosis) is drawing near.”Strongs
G629 apolutrosis ap-ol-oo'-tro-sis
from a compound of G575 and G3083;
(the act) ransom in full, i.e. (figuratively) riddance, or (specially) Christian salvation.
KJV: deliverance, redemption.
--------------------------------------
It's clear from Jesus' statement in Luke that redemption was arriving when his hearers saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies in the war of 66-70AD.
Paul's use of the same Greek word apolutrosis is an indicator that he had the same event in mind for which they were waiting eagerly, not something that would occur 1970 years and counting.
One does not wait eagerly for something hundreds of years in their future.
Locutuses believe it or not....
Absolutely. What a breath of fresh air you are on here sir!!
Can you imagine being a Christian back then? Imagine the feeling of validation when Christ's presence returned at His parousia to obliterate those wicked Jews who were the #1 source of tribulation and abuse often times using Rome to do their dirty work.
The Temple in Jerusalem was without doubt the biggest religious structure on the planet. It was the source of authority and power to tax and suppress the people. It was so heavily fortified that those inside didn't even fear the Romans for the longest time, thinking God was with them, when instead God was against them. To see that temple go up in flames would be like witnessing St. Peter's going up in flames today.
The destruction of the temple and elimination of Israel as a nation was a message to the whole world that God was no longer with those people and instead all peoples can come to Him via Christ (the new way) without the need of priests or blood of animals, etc. This change was global and dramatic. The message of the Gospel had incredible appeal over all forms of worship of the day as it was faith (not works) based. Repentance now comes from prayer, not sacrifice.
I think all of this gets lost or minimized today because we never lived under the old system. To them, the end of the temple and Law would have been the most incredible event they ever heard of, right up there with crossing the Red Sea.
oh oh spaghettio-s! the bar has been dropped if this is the best today........ noone in the early church taught like these sipple ginnals do.
dallas theological seminary, isnt that the one with all the hollywood books and films, late great planet earth and left behind????????? u know u got great scholarship when hollywood is into it i guess
dallas theological seminary, isnt that the one with all the hollywood books and films, late great planet earth and left behind????????? u know u got great scholarship when hollywood is into it i guess