The Rapture
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Hi Snoozy.
Most Everyone has their theologies and denoms. I am not terrible interested in these, except I do also have a categorization. Futurists and Historicists.
Historicists believe that Daniel's 70 weeks were completed in the First Century.
Futurists believe that the last week is still pending.
Most people who have a view on eschatology fall into these camps. Obviously, what you believe about Daniel has quite a big impact on your eschatology.
Historicists break down into Preterists (all prophecy fulfilled 1st Century and we are in the Kingdom Of God now) and Romanists. (Romanists believe we are in the 4th and 5th Kingdoms of Daniel's statue, and that Revelation was written for the Church).
(I am a Romanist)
The standard Romanist reading of Daniel 9 ascribes the 490 years to 447 BC to 37 AD.
(Their dating is hugely spurious, but in essence they run from Artaxerxes' Decree circa 446BC).
Apart from being wrong at many serious levels, they also therefore date Ezra and Nehemiah to 447BC.
This is a blatant falsification as Ezra and Nehemiah came out of the captivity as grown men in 537BC. Ezra was a Levite in authority, meaning he was at least 30 years old, and probably over 40....
Nobody seems too bothered about this enormous fudge!
Most Everyone has their theologies and denoms. I am not terrible interested in these, except I do also have a categorization. Futurists and Historicists.
Historicists believe that Daniel's 70 weeks were completed in the First Century.
Futurists believe that the last week is still pending.
Most people who have a view on eschatology fall into these camps. Obviously, what you believe about Daniel has quite a big impact on your eschatology.
Historicists break down into Preterists (all prophecy fulfilled 1st Century and we are in the Kingdom Of God now) and Romanists. (Romanists believe we are in the 4th and 5th Kingdoms of Daniel's statue, and that Revelation was written for the Church).
(I am a Romanist)
The standard Romanist reading of Daniel 9 ascribes the 490 years to 447 BC to 37 AD.
(Their dating is hugely spurious, but in essence they run from Artaxerxes' Decree circa 446BC).
Apart from being wrong at many serious levels, they also therefore date Ezra and Nehemiah to 447BC.
This is a blatant falsification as Ezra and Nehemiah came out of the captivity as grown men in 537BC. Ezra was a Levite in authority, meaning he was at least 30 years old, and probably over 40....
Nobody seems too bothered about this enormous fudge!
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Revelation was not written after 90 AD. You have one root source to support this view and that source is far from certain. It is based solely on a passage written by St. Irenaeus (died c. 200 AD) in his book Against Heresies 5:30:3. Irenaeus discussing the "Beast" passages in Revelation wrote: "If it were necessary for his name to be proclaimed openly at the present time, it would have been declared by him who saw the revelation. For it was seen not long ago, but almost in our own generation, at the end of the reign of Domitian. Note that Irenaeus does not say John wrote Revelation at the end of the reign of Domitian, he merely states "it (Revelation) was seen" which could have meant that John's work didn't gain widespread distribution (seen by the church) until Domitian. All other sources for this late dating go back to this quote and thus are not independent, additional sources.
The evidence for an earlier writing of Revelation is overwhelming and far more compelling than a later date. You can read up on this at the below site, if interested.
https://classicalchristianity.com/2011/05/21/the-book-of-revelation-and-prophecy/
The evidence for an earlier writing of Revelation is overwhelming and far more compelling than a later date. You can read up on this at the below site, if interested.
https://classicalchristianity.com/2011/05/21/the-book-of-revelation-and-prophecy/
Most Evangelical Protestants who have been influenced by Protestantism embrace the "Rapture Theory" in association with a futuristic interpretation of the book of Revelation. The book The Rapture Trap by Paul Thigpen offers a complete presentation of the problems associated with the so-called "rapture theory." The chief weakness with this interpretation is that Evangelical Protestants who support the futuristic dispensation theory are teaching that there will be two "Second Comings" of Jesus Christ. According to this view the first return of Christ is in the so-called "Rapture" (strictly a Protestant term) when only the righteous will be "raised up" with Christ and taken to heaven, followed by a period of tribulation for those "left behind." According to this view there will be another return of Christ at the end of the age when all humanity - the living and the dead - will be bodily resurrected to face the Final Judgment. The theory of two "Second Comings" of Christ is not supported in Scripture. It is a teaching introduced in nineteenth century AD when it was made popular by a disaffected Anglican named John Darby and is today taught in the Dallas Theological Seminary and by Protestant writers like Tim Lehay, author of the popular Left Behind book series.
Do you want to know? Dispensational fundamentalists view of the two returns of Christ (not taught) and their view on the "millennium" is offensive to all who honor Christ's finished work on the Cross. They believe after Christ returns to earth in glory (once again as a fleshly man), that He will reign for a literal thousand years in a literal earthly temple before the final consummation of God's plan. The title of this view comes from the "pre-mills" belief in Christ's "Second Coming" before the millennial reign. Some who have adopted this interpretation think that this reign takes place with the saints in heaven, but historically this position has tended to believe in a literal, earthly kingdom with its capital city at Jerusalem. This view was known as the 'chilian' heresy (from Greek word for thousand), a heresy vigorously renounced by many fourth and fifth centuries AD scholars who wrote on this subject. This is the same heresy proposed by the Jehovah Witnesses and others who believe that before the final Judgment Day Christ will come again in the flesh and in human history to visibly and physically rule an earthly kingdom.
This whacked out view of the millennium insists Christ gives in to the Jews desire to re-institute the Levitical system of animal sacrifices (complete with a new earthly temple) as their way of atonement thereby negating Christ's own sacrifice on the Cross. They insist Christ returns as a visible man (the way He left) who all can see and that He reigns in this temple, apparently accepting these sacrifices in favor of His own blood.
I don't know how they can hold these beliefs and have any respect for the Cross and the sacrifice Christ made for us. The view of these fundamental dispensationalists is a slap in the face to all Christ did for us and they should be ashamed for thinking God would allow this or that Christ would respect a new man-made temple and a Law based system which in large part, led to His crucifixion.
I have many other problems with this view but I hope this answers your question.
In Polycarps letter to the Phillipians (chapter 11) CHURCH FATHERS: Epistle to the Philippians (Polycarp) he speaks about Paul’s letter to the Philippians (approx,ad61-62) and then he mentions the Churches who then knew the Lord and then adds that they(the Church at Smyrna) had not yet known the Lord.
Smyrna is one of the 7 Churches Revelation is addressed to why does the bishop of Smyrna think they(Smyrna) until "after" ad62 and all of the other Churches were in existence? Irenaeus,a student of Polycarp would have been referring to when the Church at Smyrna was founded?
In Revelation the vials,seals ect. are poured out on those who received the mark,worshipped the image had the number ect. so if the weeks are fulfilled in Daniel then the DOJ in ad70 was when this was done. It brings every thing down to if they had the mark or not because of Revelation 14:11 ,Rev.16;2 Rev. 19:20 ect. so if anyone could provide a reasonable explanation as to it's fulfilment(identify the mark of the beast) then no that would place the vials,seals ect. back then and so they would not apply to any of the future of mankind after ad70.
Polycarp says in chapter 11(of his letter) "alone then knew the the Lord" and then goes on to say that the Church at Smyrna "had not yet know him"
So if Paul's epistle to the Phillipians is written around ad61-62 and he speaks of them to all the other Churches (who alone then knew him) and Smyrna did not yet know him then Smyrna was not a Church until "after all of the others" Paul laboured in. So Paul had already laboured in the Churches(that alone then knew him/Jesus) and after Paul's labour in the Church ended is when Polycarp states that they(Smyrna) came to knew the Lord(became a church).
Greetings iamsoandso,
Just fyi, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will affect everyone who is on the planet at that time. Even the great tribulation saints are exposed to them, as revealed in Rev.7:16 -
"Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst.The sun will not beat down on them,’[SUP] [/SUP]nor any scorching heat."
The above is in reference to the events of wrath as a result of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.
Just fyi, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will affect everyone who is on the planet at that time. Even the great tribulation saints are exposed to them, as revealed in Rev.7:16 -
"Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst.The sun will not beat down on them,’[SUP] [/SUP]nor any scorching heat."
The above is in reference to the events of wrath as a result of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.