The Rapture

[maverich]

Hello Sir. Welcome to the discussion. All one has to do to understand the timing of the great tribulation of Mat 24 is to compare it to the companion passage of Luke 21. It is "Jerusalem which is surrounded by armies." Even in Mat 24 it is "those in Judea" who are told to flee. So to say this is a global event is not supported by the context. The passage begins with talk of the destruction of the temple. This is the focus of the whole chapter.

If you did a little homework by comparing scripture to scripture, you would learn that the "earth" is often associated with Israel (Isa 1:2). Therefore the "tribes of the earth" are in fact the "tribes of Israel" which were scattered after Babylon.

Those Jews who survived (the 97-98K) were led away captive by Titus. This is clearly recorded in history. Those days were "cut short" otherwise not even this small remnant would have been saved. There is always a remnant dear brother.

Any person who cannot see that the Great Tribulation was completely fulfilled in the first century has little to no knowledge of history. However, I will not waste my time trying to educate you because it has been my experience that those who are relatively advanced in years are so set in their ways that their minds can never be changed. I can at least comfort you by telling you that you will not see the great tribulation nor will you see the rapture. You will go to heaven the way all saints have gone to heaven for the past 1947 years. Of this you can be certain.

i promised my Father i would be nice but you are surely pushing the right buttons

in the interest of seeing your side,may i pose a few questions, and yes i am a somewhat older person, so enlighten me please

the GT has happened, so what age are we living in now
if the GT happpened then Satan is out and about after being chained for a thousand years

the new jerusalem is in full swing,
the White throne judgement has taken place,

followers of Jesus are being beheaded at an alarming rate

no one can by or sell, because of the mark of the beast

did i miss the great statue, that spoke and the 2 witnesses at the wall.

I think maybe you have been hitting the grape juice, and i feel bad for you
to be so lost must be terrible

Jesus can help you, believe on the LORD JESUS and you shall be Saved

 

[KJV1611]

i promised my Father i would be nice but you are surely pushing the right buttons

in the interest of seeing your side,may i pose a few questions, and yes i am a somewhat older person, so enlighten me please

the GT has happened, so what age are we living in now
if the GT happpened then Satan is out and about after being chained for a thousand years

the new jerusalem is in full swing,
the White throne judgement has taken place,

followers of Jesus are being beheaded at an alarming rate

no one can by or sell, because of the mark of the beast

did i miss the great statue, that spoke and the 2 witnesses at the wall.

I think maybe you have been hitting the grape juice, and i feel bad for you
to be so lost must be terrible

Jesus can help you, believe on the LORD JESUS and you shall be Saved

You sound just like the other dispensationist, you offer no verses to counter PW's claims and then accuse him of not been saved lol. PW is FAR more closer to the truth than a dispenstationalist will ever be.

 

[Locutus]

The new Jerusalem was in full swing in the 1st century AD during the apostles ministry:

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

New Jerusalem = heavenly Jerusalem.

 

[Allenbee]

Hello plainword

Thank you for your polite reply, and may I use this opportunity to trash your belief totally.
Of course if that is not possible then thank you for enlightening us all.

So...if the great tribulation is past, then our Lord has been ruling from AD 70 or so, as He appears immediately after the GT.
Lets add the 1000 year reign to that, so now we at year 1070.

You say i'm ignorant of history, so then enlighten us please how history shows "the rest of the dead did not come to life UNTIL the 1000 years ended...so thats 1070 right.

Man... what a great worldwide event I missed reading about... and no one I know told me!
Dumb bunch we are huh, seeing that "the tent of God will be with MANKIND".
MANKIND is flesh and blood. NO ONE in heaven is flesh and blood but all spirit.

So now let's see the disappearing act using..."oh they went to heaven that's why it's not in history".
Once you put your foot into that, then Satan becomes a problem...but lets hear your amusing stuff first.

(The same stuff you put your foot in actually)

 

[maverich]

You sound just like the other dispensationist, you offer no verses to counter PW's claims and then accuse him of not been saved lol. PW is FAR more closer to the truth than a dispenstationalist will ever be.

try common sense, oh that goes against theology, none of what i said has happened, and i thought he was a bible student, its all in revelation.

if you were to try to read the big words in revelation you would find that if the GT had happened we wouldn't be having this discussion. Go ask your preacher, he will teach you in the ways of your father, that is of this world

i am tired of bad teaching bad preaching and all around nit wittery

READ THE BIBLE

 

[Locutus]

Paul stated there was about to be a resurrection of the dead when he addressed ol' Felix the Rat:

Acts 24:15 having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that there is about to be a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous;

Look at any Greek text and it will show the correct Greek tense, Young's Literal is only one of few that do so.

There is no way to make "about to be" 1970 years later and counting.

 

[KJV1611]

try common sense, oh that goes against theology, none of what i said has happened, and i thought he was a bible student, its all in revelation.

if you were to try to read the big words in revelation you would find that if the GT had happened we wouldn't be having this discussion. Go ask your preacher, he will teach you in the ways of your father, that is of this world

i am tired of bad teaching bad preaching and all around nit wittery

READ THE BIBLE

Teach me what this verse REALLY means.

Matthew 10:23 KJV
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

 

[KJV1611]

Paul stated there was about to be a resurrection of the dead when he addressed ol' Felix the Rat:

Acts 24:15 having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that there is about to be a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous;

Look at any Greek text and it will show the correct Greek tense, Young's Literal is only one of few that do so.

There is no way to make "about to be" 1970 years later and counting.

We're looking for truth here, not picking and chosing bible translations that fit our beliefs. Which bible translation is right?

 

[Locutus]

In regards to the timing of the Great Tribblelation Young's Literal shows the correct Greek tense:

Luke 21:36 (Young's) watch ye, then, in every season, praying that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are about to come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.'

 

[iamsoandso]

In regards to the timing of the Great Tribblelation Young's Literal shows the correct Greek tense:

Luke 21:36 (Young's) watch ye, then, in every season, praying that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are about to come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.'

Ahh, you transferrer the GT over to the Christians just like he does...

 

[KJV1611]

In regards to the timing of the Great Tribblelation Young's Literal shows the correct Greek tense:

Luke 21:36 (Young's) watch ye, then, in every season, praying that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are about to come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.'

Young's has a little truth, there's a little truth in the KJV, a little in the NASB. So how do we determine when a translation "got it right" and when it didn't?

Young's translation is significantly different than most of the other translations and greatly affects the timimg of of the verse. How are you so sure that Young's "got it right"?

 

[Bogadile]

Young's has a little truth, there's a little truth in the KJV, a little in the NASB. So how do we determine when a translation "got it right" and when it didn't?

Young's translation is significantly different than most of the other translations and greatly affects the timimg of of the verse. How are you so sure that Young's "got it right"?

Because of it being a literal translation perhaps?
Then again according to those who know greek, and can actually read the bible in greek, you cannot translate word-for-word due to how the greek language works, it is impossible. Words always need to be added to make it readable. I can understand this when translating from Finnish to English the same occurs.

 

[KJV1611]

Because of it being a literal translation perhaps?
Then again according to those who know greek, and can actually read the bible in greek, you cannot translate word-for-word due to how the greek language works, it is impossible. Words always need to be added to make it readable. I can understand this when translating from Finnish to English the same occurs.

So only the "smart people" that know Greek and Hebrew can know what the verse really means?

 

[Bogadile]

So only the "smart people" that know Greek and Hebrew can know what the verse really means?

Yup. Us peasants are stuck with translations. We just have to trust the translators and scholars know what they are doing
But remember that the old testament of Jesus' time was also a translation, a greek translation called the Septuagint.

 

[valiant]

in the interest of seeing your side,may i pose a few questions, and yes i am a somewhat older person, so enlighten me please

the GT has happened, so what age are we living in now

we are living in the age when the Jews have suffered Great Tribulation (luke 21.24; deut 28),

if the GT happened then Satan is out and about after being chained for a thousand years

the chaining of Satan is never mentioned in connection with the great tribulation on the Jews

the new jerusalem is in full swing, the White throne judgement has taken place,

whyso? they occur at the second coming,

followers of Jesus are being beheaded at an alarming rate

Actually they were, by the Romans, in 1st and 2nd century, and still are being.

no one can by or sell, because of the mark of the beast

Again a roman punishment

did i miss the great statue, that spoke and the 2 witnesses at the wall

.

Yes you must have done.

 

[maverich]

mathew 10: 24 Jesus is sending out the 12, but in 28:16 he sends them out, hmmmm what does this mean. I COULD SAY it was maybe a training session for the future

maybe Jesus said he would join them at a later time, though we do know that they are with him in chapter 12.

so maybe chapter 28 the great commission is more likely than the GT

of course you may be right but there are no scriptures to back you. while there plenty to back a future GT

I say it again READ THE BIBLE

also because i feel frisky moody radio had someone on the other day he said the KJV is the worst bible because they used 15th century manuscripts where newer bibles used older manuscripts just thought i would mention that

 

[Locutus]

Darn it, we missed the great tribblelation....

 

[KJV1611]

Yup. Us peasants are stuck with translations. We just have to trust the translators and scholars know what they are doing
But remember that the old testament of Jesus' time was also a translation, a greek translation called the Septuagint.

I never knew God couldn't translate his word into all languages. Do you think the holy spirit speaking at Pentecost messed that up also because of the language barrier?

 

[valiant]

so maybe chapter 28 the great commission is more likely than the GT

The great commission was given in c 33AD. The great tribulation on the Jews began c 70 AD.

of course you may be right but there are no scriptures to back you.

The whole context of Jesus Comments and comparison of Matthew 24 with Luke 21 confirm it.

while there plenty to back a future GT

Christians can expect tribulation constantly, but 'great tribulation' of Matthew 24 was on the Jews. It is a very different tribulation from that mentioned in Rev 7 which was on Christians.

I say it again READ THE BIBLE

Have done.

also because i feel frisky moody radio had someone on the other day he said the KJV is the worst bible because they used 15th century manuscripts where newer bibles used older manuscripts just thought i would mention that

well kjv supporters might disagree, but it hardly matters on the subject in question.

 

[KJV1611]

mathew 10: 24 Jesus is sending out the 12, but in 28:16 he sends them out, hmmmm what does this mean. I COULD SAY it was maybe a training session for the future

maybe Jesus said he would join them at a later time, though we do know that they are with him in chapter 12.

so maybe chapter 28 the great commission is more likely than the GT

of course you may be right but there are no scriptures to back you. while there plenty to back a future GT

I say it again READ THE BIBLE

also because i feel frisky moody radio had someone on the other day he said the KJV is the worst bible because they used 15th century manuscripts where newer bibles used older manuscripts just thought i would mention that

Let me be more direct with question. In VERSE 23 the Son of Man comes before the 12 disciples go over the cities of Israel.... What COMING is Jesus talking about?

Matthew 10:23 KJV
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.