The Rapture

[KJV1611]

THERE IS SOMETHING AS MAJOR AS THE SINFUL WORLD COMING TO AN END, and it is Called the book of Revelation and Zechariah Chapter 14.

Your opinion means nothing as far as the truth goes.... everybody has opinions.

 

[iamsoandso]

Nehemiah6 said the decree was given by Cyrus... if Cyrus gave it then it was given in his day.

I was giving alternatives that match 70 WEEKS as the bible says it's 70 weeks and not 70 weeks of years.

In scripture what week was it when the messiah was cut off?

 

[KJV1611]

Believe what you want, but the DECREE was 483 years before MESSIAH rode into Jerusalem on a Donkey.


Zechariah 9:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Rejoice greatly, Daughter Zion! Shout in triumph, Daughter Jerusalem! Look, your King is coming to you; He is righteous and victorious, humble and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.


THAT PROPHECY WAS FULFILLED 483 YEARS AFTER THE DECREE OF ARTAXERES'S COMMANDING THAT JERUSALEM AND THE WALLS BE REBUILT.

See how much you have to INGNORE fulfilled Prophecy and bend Scripture to fit your week of days THEORY.

What year was Jesus born?
What year did Jesus ride into Jerusalem on a donkey?

 

[KJV1611]

Not at all. Study Bible history, Bible chronology, and secular history and chronology. There's no point quibbling about this matter, since your theory about weeks of days is absurd.

Right, when it comes down to PROVING 70 weeks is 490 years it's time to stop quibbling because it can't be proven lol.

 

[KJV1611]

I don't see it in the Bible, do you? Most who argue for a literal end of the heaven and earth point to Rev 21. But that isn't what John was discussing. John was discussing the spiritual, eternal things. Our futurist friends call it "the eternal state" but they apply it to physical non-eternal things.

Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

How can the new heaven come down from heaven if heaven was destroyed? Besides, is heaven not perfect and the place Christ went to prepare? "Sea" throughout Revelation represents the Gentile nations which surround Israel (the Earth). Thus the end of the Sea simply means the end of God treating the other countries as heathen (unsaved and condemned) different than how He had been treating Israel, His holy (saved) nation. The "New Jerusalem" here is the Bride. We know the "bride" is the Church.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.

Paul teaches that we are the new Temple. John teaches that God (through His Spirit) dwells within us. All of these things were new teachings found only in the NT.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

This is the restoration of all things that has been talked about by the prophets and reminded of by Peter (Acts 3) and of Jesus. This marks the end of the separation from God upon death which began at the Fall. Right now we are "new creations." Isaiah first mentions this in Isa 65:17.

“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.

John is simply borrowing Isaiah's imagery in Rev 21. Paul gives the same teaching:

2 Cor 5:17: Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Gal 6: For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.

Notice the same language? Paul speaks of this in contemporary terms (to his day). We don't even think about the old way under the Law (the former no longer comes to mind) anymore, it has "passed away."

Yes I see it as at the end of the 1000 year reign.

 

[J7]

Nehemiah6 said the decree was given by Cyrus... if Cyrus gave it then it was given in his day.

I was giving alternatives that match 70 WEEKS as the bible says it's 70 weeks and not 70 weeks of years.

It is 'Shabuwa' which is Hebrew for:

a) seven
b) week
c) seven years

 

[Enow]

Let's look at one of these passages and see if it describes a secret rapture. "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." (2 Pet 3:10). That doesn't sound like a secret event, does it?

Jesus did say that destruction will occur immediately after the pre trib rapture, but He will descend with a shout....

Luke 17:[SUP]26 [/SUP]And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.[SUP] 28 [/SUP]Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;[SUP] 29 [/SUP]But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.[SUP] 30 [/SUP]Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.[SUP] 31 [/SUP]In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.[SUP] 32 [/SUP]Remember Lot's wife.[SUP] 33 [/SUP]Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.[SUP]34 [/SUP]I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

There is an escape... and it is too bad that many believers do not see why Jesus tells them to always be ready to go, in leaving the cares of this life behind.

Luke 21:[SUP]33 [/SUP]Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.[SUP] 34 [/SUP]And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.[SUP] 35 [/SUP]For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.[SUP] 36 [/SUP]Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

So how can anything be a snare to persecuted believers at the end of the great tribulation period? How can they even love that kind of life and have snares for the cares of this life when everything about the great tribulation is what the persecuted saints would rather not live in after a third of the world gets burned up ( the entire western hemisphere ) for which serves as a catalyst for the coming new world order and the mark of the beast system to buy and sell in order to survive in that NWO?

So Jesus's warnings are for the saints now to be ready as found abiding in Him and be willing to leave.

That is the whole point of addressing the seven churches in Revelations was to get ready & stay ready or else.

 

[J7]

If you think it is 70 weeks, then don't forget it has to run from 538 BC when Cyrus gave his decree.

Also, understand that God increments punishment by 7. So the 70 years becomes 490 years.

 

[KJV1611]

In scripture what week was it when the messiah was cut off?

Daniel 9:25-26 KJV
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

According to scripture Messiah was cut off in the 63rd week, the same week he confirmed the covenant with Abraham and ended animal sacrifices.

 

[iamsoandso]

Daniel 9:25-26 KJV
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

According to scripture Messiah was cut off in the 63rd week, the same week he confirmed the covenant with Abraham and ended animal sacrifices.

It says after 62 weeks how do you see 63?

 

[KJV1611]

It is 'Shabuwa' which is Hebrew for:

a) seven
b) week
c) seven years

I'll bet you choose 7 years as your definition. Which one of the definitions did God intend?

 

[KJV1611]

It says after 62 weeks how do you see 63?

What week comes after the 62nd week? Seriously, it goes like this - 61st week, 62nd week, 63rd week and so on. How do you see it as anything other than the 63rd week?

 

[KJV1611]

If you think it is 70 weeks, then don't forget it has to run from 538 BC when Cyrus gave his decree.

Also, understand that God increments punishment by 7. So the 70 years becomes 490 years.

Daniel 9:24 KJV
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

I don't see punishment anywhere in that summary.

 

[Snoozy]

Morning Snoozy, Just FYI, I started a study on Revelation and end-time events in blog format, as a teaching and not as a debate. Everyone is invited to participate.

hi uce. i see we have da same understanding on end times. can u tell me where to find this blog? whats the address?

 

[iamsoandso]

What week comes after the 62nd week? Seriously, it goes like this - 61st week, 62nd week, 63rd week and so on. How do you see it as anything other than the 63rd week?

lol,I'm examining what your saying not asserting anything. So after 62 weeks are accomplished(so now it's the 63rd week) the messiah is cut off leaving 7 weeks after Christ death?

 

[Ahwatukee]

The majority of Revelation about REVEALING Jesus Christ and his work on the cross.

No KJV, it tells us right in the very first verse what is being revealed:

"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,."

Though the Lord's return to the earth to end the age is definitely one of the events that must soon take place. The majority of Revelation is revealing the events of God's wrath that will be poured out upon the earth "the things that must soon take place," or as Revelation 4:1 has it, "come up here and I will show you what must take place after this."

Also, the word "Apokalupsis" translated "Revelation" means to unveil things that were previously hidden. The Lord's sacrifice on the cross was something already very well known and established. But the details of the day of the Lord which the OT prophesied about, were not known and that is what Revelation is revealing, how God's wrath is going to be poured out and all related end-time events.

 

[Snoozy]

Why did you avoid my question? Go ahead answer it. Did God protect the Jewish Christian Church during the 66-70 AD time frame? If He did, how did He do it? If He didn't, why not?

he protected them yes. they fled before it happened. i assume i honestly havent read what happened to them, but i think they remembered Jesus' words and fled.

 

[KJV1611]

lol,I'm examining what your saying not asserting anything. So after 62 weeks are accomplished(so now it's the 63rd week) the messiah is cut off leaving 7 weeks after Christ death?

Yes, and exactly 7 weeks later was Penetecost.... that's when the 70 weeks ended according to scripture.

 

[KJV1611]

No KJV, it tells us right in the very first verse what is being revealed:

"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,."

Though the Lord's return to the earth to end the age is definitely one of the events that must soon take place. The majority of Revelation is revealing the events of God's wrath that will be poured out upon the earth "the things that must soon take place," or as Revelation 4:1 has it, "come up here and I will show you what must take place after this."

Also, the word "Apokalupsis" translated "Revelation" means to unveil things that were previously hidden. The Lord's sacrifice on the cross was something already very well known and established. But the details of the day of the Lord which the OT prophesied about, were not known and that is what Revelation is revealing, how God's wrath is going to be poured out and all related end-time events.

Considering you believe the book was written in the 90's AD I can see how you would conclude that. I don't believe history, I believe John got and wrote the vision on the LORD'S day as the bible says.

Revelation 1:10 KJV
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

 

[iamsoandso]

Yes, and exactly 7 weeks later was Penetecost.... that's when the 70 weeks ended according to scripture.

So the times of gentile rule was over at Pentecost?