Hmm,That's interesting, you took Matt. 24:21 and transferred the tribulation over to the Christians...
The Rapture
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Hmm,That's interesting, you took Matt. 24:21 and transferred the tribulation over to the Christians...
lol,I'm just watching how each of you put the different pieces together but I suppose you want me to say Christians. If I do say that then in Acts 11:19 the great tribulation ended in Acts 9:31 when Paul was converted?
I'm not sure what you mean by piecing things together. The believers were told to flee the tribulation that was about to come after the abomination that make the desolate.
The tribulation of the believers didn't end with Paul's conversion, Paul was persecuted too.
I Just added the following in my Pax Romana thread and I thought it is applicable here - a bit of a recap from the opening post:
"In fact, the "Pax Romana" was broken by the First Jewish–Roman War."
Jesus said that satan was being bound during his ministry:
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
While the early disciples were suffering at the hands of the Jews, they were to a large degree being bound.
The man of sin as a main minion of satan was also being restrained during this period:
2 Thess 2:6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
We see in Revelation that satan is loosed (and that would include his minions):
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.
I think there is good reason to believe that this was the start of the Jewish/Roman war of 66-70 AD where the Roman armies and confederates are spiritually called Gog and Magog:
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
"In fact, the "Pax Romana" was broken by the First Jewish–Roman War."
Jesus said that satan was being bound during his ministry:
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
While the early disciples were suffering at the hands of the Jews, they were to a large degree being bound.
The man of sin as a main minion of satan was also being restrained during this period:
2 Thess 2:6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
We see in Revelation that satan is loosed (and that would include his minions):
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.
I think there is good reason to believe that this was the start of the Jewish/Roman war of 66-70 AD where the Roman armies and confederates are spiritually called Gog and Magog:
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
This theory keeps getting more and more detached from reality. Now the millennial kingdom is a past event that started BEFORE Jesus even set foot on earth? And turns out it was not God who brought the kingdom forth but the Romans? And to top it all off, the "Pax Romana" did not even last a 1000 years, but around 200.
This is just wishful thinking. Again we are wayyy past orthodoxy here. This is in the la-la-land theology. Stop it.
Israel is being told to flee from tribulation in Matt.24:21, as can be deduced from the following:
"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."
Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
The abomination spoken of through the prophet Daniel would be referring to the last seven of seventy sevens that was decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem, as found in Dan.9:24.
Therefore, along with the mention of the abomination being set up in the holy place within the temple, the warning for those who are in Judea to flee and the reference to the Sabbath, makes this all about Israel.
Not only that, but the ten-toed kingdom of Dan.2:31-45, which is that last kingdom, hasn't even been assembled yet. This is the kingdom where the Rock/Jesus falls on the feet of the statue smashing it to pieces like chaff on a threshing floor and is blown away by the wind without leaving a trace, ergo, the end of all human government. Then the rock becomes a huge mountain and fills the entire earth, which represents Christ's millennial kingdom.
Where did I say it started before "Jesus set foot on earth"
I'm sure the pope said the same thing about the reformers...
Just getting started..
Hi Ahwatukee,
You seem to have a good understanding of end time events. Have you ever taught the book of Revelation and included the OT prophecies as they apply to certain events?
What about when Christ was crucified and the early church was under major tribulation from the Jews, why is Matthew 24 not speaking of this time, the time when the most atrocious abomination that could ever take place took place?
Hello Desertrose!
Thank you for your kind words, but the answer is no, I have not taught, as in a classroom setting, but only in fellowship with individuals face to face and on different forums, etc.
The problem is that, we have people who have not put in the time of study who are attempting to teach on Revelation and end-time events. Many of them just repeat what they've heard or what they got off of YouTube, other websites and from the myriad of books that are out there.
As far as comparing Revelation and OT prophesies, I always incorporate them when applicable, such as Daniel, which I consider a sister book to Revelation and all of the references in other scriptures regarding end-time events. For example, in order to understand who the woman of Rev.12 is, we have to go back to Genesis 37:9-10 to get the answer. Otherwise, any of the symbolism in Revelation is revealed right in Revelation itself.
There is a tie in with what Paul said to the Ephesians and what John stated in the book of revelation:
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
The Ephesians are seated with Christ, this is "enthronement" language. Where was Christ seated in their day - at the right hand of the father.
Peter claimed that his readers:
1 Pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:
This places John's revelation in the 1st century AD
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
The Ephesians are seated with Christ, this is "enthronement" language. Where was Christ seated in their day - at the right hand of the father.
Peter claimed that his readers:
1 Pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:
This places John's revelation in the 1st century AD
Because in Matt.24:15 Jesus quotes Daniel 9:27 regarding the setting up of the abomination that causes the desolation, which marks the middle of that last seven years.
That last part of the Dan.9:27 states that "the ruler" will set up an abomination until the end that is decreed is poured out on him, said decree is his being captured when the Lord returns and is thrown into the lake of fire alive. It is the same event that Paul was referring to when he said that the man of lawlessness will be destroyed by the brightness of the Lord's coming.
I have posted this many times, but I will post here again. In Dan.9:24-27, we are told that seventy sevens i.e. seventy seven year periods where decreed upon Daniel's people (Israel) and their holy city (Jerusalem).
These seventy sevens are divided up into three sections:
7 sevens = The restoring and rebuilding of Jerusalem
62 sevens = at the end of which the Messiah is cut off (crucified)
That accounts for 69 sevens or 483 years, which leaves one seven unaccounted for.
At the completion of 69 of the seven year periods, the Messiah was crucified and God put a hold on that last seven years and began to build the church. Once the church has been completed, the Lord will descend and gather the church. After that event takes place, God will pick up right where he left off with that last seven years with the ruler, that antichrist, establishing his seven year agreement with Israel. During that same seven years, God will be pouring out his wrath upon the entire Christ-rejecting world, decimating the majority of the population of the earth via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and dismantling all human government, as demonstrated in Dan.2:31-45.
That last seven years will take place in conjunction with the signs that Jesus mentions in Matt.24 leading up to his return to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.
As far as the destruction of the temple being the "most atrocious" it will pale greatly in comparison to what is soon to come upon the earth.
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What Paul said in his letter to the Ephesians is also applied to all believers throughout the entire church period i.e. all believers are seated with Christ in the heavenly realms. Obviously we are not there yet, else we would already be in heaven. What is meant by this is that, our being placed with Christ in the heavenly realms is reserved and secured for us. It's like having a reservation at a prestigious restaurant. The plates and silverware and table decorations are all set and ready and our names plates at each seat, but for those whom it has been prepared for haven't arrived yet.
You really don't realize that the kingdom of Dan 2 that is destroyed by Christ was Rome? The stone that struck the image and became a great mountain filling the whole world was the "Kingdom of God" AKA Christianity. Christianity was a huge reason for the collapse of the Roman Empire. You see kingdoms will come and go and have come and gone since then but the Kingdom of God abides forever.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
In the days of those Caesars God established His new Kingdom. This happened in the past but continues to this day. Nothing says human government ends. The kingdoms which were consumed were the kingdoms represented by that statue. Indeed all those former kingdoms are gone, never to be seen again, including Rome, but God's kingdom, "Christianity" abides forever.
Another aspect of revelation I think deserves some consideration:
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
The avenging of the blood of "those who were slain for the word" is said to be after "a little" season - this "little season" hardly describes a literal thousand years or millennium.
This "how long" cry is directly related to Jesus' statement:
Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily....
There is no way to dichotomize Jesus's statement from John's revelation, therefore to suggest that Jesus' statement and Johns's "avenging" are delayed by 1970 years is surely a misinterpretation of both Jesus and John.
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
The avenging of the blood of "those who were slain for the word" is said to be after "a little" season - this "little season" hardly describes a literal thousand years or millennium.
This "how long" cry is directly related to Jesus' statement:
Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily....
There is no way to dichotomize Jesus's statement from John's revelation, therefore to suggest that Jesus' statement and Johns's "avenging" are delayed by 1970 years is surely a misinterpretation of both Jesus and John.
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And what you fail to realize is that, the statue represents all the Gentile nations, Babylon, Medo/Persia, Greece, Rome and the ten-toed kingdom which is a future extension of that revived Roman empire.
Therefore, since Jesus, as the Rock that falls on the feet of the statues representing the Gentile nations, the statue being smashed to pieces, represents the end of all human government.
After the smashing of the statue, the Rock/Jesus becomes a huge mountain which fills the entire earth, which is referring to Christ's millennial reign after he returns to the earth to end the age.
And please don't tell me the nonsense that Jesus is currently ruling from heaven through the church, because that ain't happening. The church is ruling no one and Christ is not ruling with a rod of iron. The restrainer is just about to be removed and the church that He works through with him. Once the church has been gathered, then the full force of sin will be unleashed and the man of sin that the restrainer was holding back, will be revealed.
You people who believe as you do have no idea what is coming upon this earth, but you will when you see it taking place with your own eyes.
The reason I asked is because I would love it if you would do a study of the book of Revelation bringing in the prophecies concerning end times along with Matthew 24, etc here in the forums.
If not, I understand. It would take a lot of time and effort. But it seems like it would be something that many would be interested in. To know more about the end times in sequential order and how events may already be happening today.
I heard on the radio about a company requiring their employees to have a chip imbedded between the forefinger and thumb.
I know the nay sayers would enter in with their comments, but we could focus on the study instead of answering those who interrupt the teaching.Please think about it and pray if God might like for you to do something here with your vast knowledge of scriptures pertaining to the return of the Lord.Thanks!