THIRD TEMPLE NEWS
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I never posted any eschatology according to me, so you actually cannot say I ignore this or that verse pointing to the future.
Also, you cannot answer to my question why do you pick up one sort of verses and ignore others by counterattack "you are maybe doing the same". It is not the answer, it is running from the answer.
Also, you cannot answer to my question why do you pick up one sort of verses and ignore others by counterattack "you are maybe doing the same". It is not the answer, it is running from the answer.
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I AM A FIRM BELIEVER IN COMPARING VERSES TO OTHER VERSES ON THE SAME SUBJECT, AND THEN LETTING THE SCRIPTURES THEMSELVES INTERPRET THE QUESTIONABLE VERSES, KNOWING THAT GOD DOES NOT CONTRADICT HIMSELF. YOU SHOULD TRY IT SOMETIME, INSTEAD OF APPLYING THE PRESUPPOSITIONS PRIOR TO INTERPRETATION, THAT YOU WERE TAUGHT WHEN YOU WERE YOUNG. THEREBY YOU WILL SINCERELY BE TRYING TO REALLY UNDERSTAND VERSES, ESPECIALLY ON THE RAPTURE (CAUGHT UP) AND ISRAEL. YOU JUST MIGHT FIND YOUR PRESUPPOSITION BLINDERS WERE THE WHOLE PROBLEM THAT WAS CAUSING YOUR MISUNDERSTANDINGS.
Just so you know, I was raised in a very strict LUTHERAN Church, Missouri Synod. I KNOW FIRST HAND, how the Presuppositions taught to me in Sunday School, over shadowed letting the Scriptures, interpret Scriptures. As I studied the Bible, AFTER I WAS BORN AGAIN after a third attempt at suicide in a week, I kept finding things in SCRIPTURE, that contradicted what they taught me as a Child. Still it was a VERY HARD THING to break away from the LUTHERAN Teachings that my Mother raised me in. I went to the Pastor three different times with questions about what a particular verse meant, and his only comment was, I am permitted to tell you what it says, but I am not permitted to tell you what it means by what it says. Thus an error in interpretation in that denomination was doomed to remain an error, because the Pastors were Not permitted to EXPOSIT the Word of GOD.
I was by that time listening to Dr. John MacArthur, from Grace Community Church, near L.A., and President of the Master's College & Seminary, every weekday night on Christian Radio. He EXPOSITED the Word of GOD boldly and made it very understandable, while explaining how it applied to our lives. My born again human spirit SOARED with hunger, for that kind of Bible Teaching.
Still Clinging to my LUTHERAN ROOTS, more for my Mother than me, I continued to put up with the Lutheran Church's 15 minute sermons. Then came the final straw. In a private conversation, the Pastor told me he really wanted to teach Expositing the Word, but the Board of Elders insisted the Lutheran rules were forbidding him from EXPOSITING the Word. He then explained that he put in for a Transfer, because the Board of Elders ordered him to cut his sermons from 15 minutes to 10 minutes because they wanted out of Church before Noon. That was it, I NEEDED TO FIND A BIBLE TEACHING CHURCH. I landed at an Evangelical Free Church, which technically that denomination was formed as a spin off of the Lutheran Church, because of people who wanted the Word of GOD Exposited. My Mother was very hurt, and said, "So now you are going to dessert thee Faith. The E. Free sermons were 45 minutes, and then a year and a half later, I started going to a Community Church where the Word was Exposited for an hour every Sunday.
So I really do know how hard it is to break away from clinging to a Denomination you were raised in, even though they were not being faithful to FEEDING THE SHEEP, (Exposit my WORD).
Here is a simple Example of Comparing SCRIPTURE to SCRIPTURE, and letting it interpret the verse. The word Rapture comes from the Latin word Rapturo which means "CAUGHT UP". So we will ask, ARE THERE any examples in Scripture that GOD uses "CAUGHT UP" to remove Believers from the Earth. YES THERE IS.
Genesis 5:24 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Enoch walked with God; then he was not there because God took him.
2 Kings 2:11-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire with horses of fire suddenly appeared and separated the two of them. Then Elijah went up into heaven in the whirlwind.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] As Elisha watched, he kept crying out, “My father, my father, the chariots and horsemen of Israel!” Then he never saw Elijah again. He took hold of his own clothes and tore them into two pieces.
THERE ARE TWO EXAMPLES of Believers being "CAUGHT UP", and NOT IMMEDIATELY COMING RIGHT BACK DOWN FROM THE CLOUDS.
Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord Himself will descend [it does not say RETURN] from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Therefore comfort one another with these words.
We know GOD does not CHANGE, therefore caught up is not UP AND IMMEDIATELY BACK DOWN. Therefore we truly are going to the WEDDING OF THE LAMB, and it is a REAL EVENT. That Wedding style used by the Jews at the TIME of CHRIST lasted 7 days. I think it is a Week of Years, mirroring the 70th Week of Daniel here on Earth. Whether you believe that is Seven Earth Days or Seven Years is not the point. The Point is, it is PRIOR TO THE SECOND COMING.
Revelation 19:7-9 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready."
[SUP]8 [/SUP] It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Then he *said to me, "Write, 'Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.'" And he *said to me, "These are true words of God."
In a traditional Orthodox Jewish Wedding the Marriage is CELEBRATED for Seven Days in the home of the Bridegroom's Father, then the evening meal of the Seventh Day, is called the Marriage Supper. Then immediately the Next Day the Couple returns to the Bride's old dwelling place to celebrate the Wedding and even repeat the Vows, in front of her Relatives who could not travel to Wedding at the house of Bridegroom's Father.
AND in Rev. 19:11-21 we see, the KING JESUS CHRIST traveling with HIS BRIDE to RETURN TO EARTH, to set up HIS EARTHLY KINGDOM.
Just so you know, I was raised in a very strict LUTHERAN Church, Missouri Synod. I KNOW FIRST HAND, how the Presuppositions taught to me in Sunday School, over shadowed letting the Scriptures, interpret Scriptures. As I studied the Bible, AFTER I WAS BORN AGAIN after a third attempt at suicide in a week, I kept finding things in SCRIPTURE, that contradicted what they taught me as a Child. Still it was a VERY HARD THING to break away from the LUTHERAN Teachings that my Mother raised me in. I went to the Pastor three different times with questions about what a particular verse meant, and his only comment was, I am permitted to tell you what it says, but I am not permitted to tell you what it means by what it says. Thus an error in interpretation in that denomination was doomed to remain an error, because the Pastors were Not permitted to EXPOSIT the Word of GOD.
I was by that time listening to Dr. John MacArthur, from Grace Community Church, near L.A., and President of the Master's College & Seminary, every weekday night on Christian Radio. He EXPOSITED the Word of GOD boldly and made it very understandable, while explaining how it applied to our lives. My born again human spirit SOARED with hunger, for that kind of Bible Teaching.
Still Clinging to my LUTHERAN ROOTS, more for my Mother than me, I continued to put up with the Lutheran Church's 15 minute sermons. Then came the final straw. In a private conversation, the Pastor told me he really wanted to teach Expositing the Word, but the Board of Elders insisted the Lutheran rules were forbidding him from EXPOSITING the Word. He then explained that he put in for a Transfer, because the Board of Elders ordered him to cut his sermons from 15 minutes to 10 minutes because they wanted out of Church before Noon. That was it, I NEEDED TO FIND A BIBLE TEACHING CHURCH. I landed at an Evangelical Free Church, which technically that denomination was formed as a spin off of the Lutheran Church, because of people who wanted the Word of GOD Exposited. My Mother was very hurt, and said, "So now you are going to dessert thee Faith. The E. Free sermons were 45 minutes, and then a year and a half later, I started going to a Community Church where the Word was Exposited for an hour every Sunday.
So I really do know how hard it is to break away from clinging to a Denomination you were raised in, even though they were not being faithful to FEEDING THE SHEEP, (Exposit my WORD).
Here is a simple Example of Comparing SCRIPTURE to SCRIPTURE, and letting it interpret the verse. The word Rapture comes from the Latin word Rapturo which means "CAUGHT UP". So we will ask, ARE THERE any examples in Scripture that GOD uses "CAUGHT UP" to remove Believers from the Earth. YES THERE IS.
Genesis 5:24 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Enoch walked with God; then he was not there because God took him.
2 Kings 2:11-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire with horses of fire suddenly appeared and separated the two of them. Then Elijah went up into heaven in the whirlwind.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] As Elisha watched, he kept crying out, “My father, my father, the chariots and horsemen of Israel!” Then he never saw Elijah again. He took hold of his own clothes and tore them into two pieces.
THERE ARE TWO EXAMPLES of Believers being "CAUGHT UP", and NOT IMMEDIATELY COMING RIGHT BACK DOWN FROM THE CLOUDS.
Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord Himself will descend [it does not say RETURN] from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Therefore comfort one another with these words.
We know GOD does not CHANGE, therefore caught up is not UP AND IMMEDIATELY BACK DOWN. Therefore we truly are going to the WEDDING OF THE LAMB, and it is a REAL EVENT. That Wedding style used by the Jews at the TIME of CHRIST lasted 7 days. I think it is a Week of Years, mirroring the 70th Week of Daniel here on Earth. Whether you believe that is Seven Earth Days or Seven Years is not the point. The Point is, it is PRIOR TO THE SECOND COMING.
Revelation 19:7-9 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready."
[SUP]8 [/SUP] It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Then he *said to me, "Write, 'Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.'" And he *said to me, "These are true words of God."
In a traditional Orthodox Jewish Wedding the Marriage is CELEBRATED for Seven Days in the home of the Bridegroom's Father, then the evening meal of the Seventh Day, is called the Marriage Supper. Then immediately the Next Day the Couple returns to the Bride's old dwelling place to celebrate the Wedding and even repeat the Vows, in front of her Relatives who could not travel to Wedding at the house of Bridegroom's Father.
AND in Rev. 19:11-21 we see, the KING JESUS CHRIST traveling with HIS BRIDE to RETURN TO EARTH, to set up HIS EARTHLY KINGDOM.
what about the billion people who lived during those times which weren't under Roman rule?
or all the people who traded outside guilds? you certainly didn't have to be a member of a guild in order to buy something from a tradesman.
trade guilds in the Roman economy existed for hundreds of years before Christ. by the time John wrote, they were certainly well-established and had been in the height of their economic power for a long, long time. but John wrote specifically of future events, though they no doubt had types in the past and in his own present.
i'm sorry but i really don't see how that interpretation can hold water.
OK, but can you answer my question, why do you pick up only verses "for Israel" and not verses "against Israel" when both are in the Bible?
I tried to find the reponse in that long post of yours, beginning with where you were raised up and ending with Orthodox Jewish wedding marriage, but I am not sure what you wanted to say.
Please, say it shortly and clearly, I am a simple guy.
I tried to find the reponse in that long post of yours, beginning with where you were raised up and ending with Orthodox Jewish wedding marriage, but I am not sure what you wanted to say.
Please, say it shortly and clearly, I am a simple guy.
You see, I am one of the PEOPLE who is foolish enough to BELIEVE every word of Scripture was INSPIRED BY GOD.
AND I BELIEVE GOD IS INTELLENT ENOUGH TO NOT TO SAY, ANTICHRIST will require EVERYONE who lives on the Earth, when He means less than EVERYONE.
YES, I BELIEVE ONE MUST READ THE CONTEXT TO PROPERLY INTERPRET THE SCRIPTURES.
AND YOU ARE FOOLISH ENOUGHT TO BELIEVE SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHAT GOD SAYS.
Revelation 13:14-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] He deceives those who live on the earth because of the signs that he is permitted to perform on behalf of the beast, telling those who live on the earth to make an image of the beast who had the sword wound and yet lived.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] He was permitted to give a spirit to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast could both speak and cause whoever would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And he requires everyone—small and great, rich and poor, free and slave—to be given a mark on his right hand or on his forehead,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark: the beast’s name or the number of his name.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Here is wisdom: The one who has understanding must calculate the number of the beast, because it is the number of a man. His number is 666.
NOW START YOUR OWN DISCUSSION, IT DOES NOT BELONG ON THIS THREAD.
OK, have you actually looked for the word "earth" here? Try it. It does not mean "our planet" or "whole the globe".
There are so many countries "outside the western system", so many islands, so many waste lands of "nobody", that if you really expect antichrist to control every individual on this planet, you must wait for such thing to be possible for probably some more centuries, I am sorry.
There are so many countries "outside the western system", so many islands, so many waste lands of "nobody", that if you really expect antichrist to control every individual on this planet, you must wait for such thing to be possible for probably some more centuries, I am sorry.
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I said it simple enough for those with the HOLY SPIRIT IN THEM, (BORN AGAIN) to understand.
READ POST #22 on "The Rapture" thread.
AND PLEASE STOP TRYING TO HYJACK THIS THREAD.
1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
WHY DO YOU CONTINUALLY WANT TO FOCUS ON THE SINS OF ISRAEL?
Do you not KNOW WHAT THE LORD SAID to those who will be like that?
Matthew 18:23-35 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, 'Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.'
[SUP]27 [/SUP] Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, 'Pay me what you owe!'
[SUP]29 [/SUP] So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.'
[SUP]30 [/SUP] And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me.
[SUP]33 [/SUP] Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?'
[SUP]34 [/SUP] And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
[SUP]35 [/SUP] So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses."
1 Peter 4:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.
READ POST #22 on "The Rapture" thread.
AND PLEASE STOP TRYING TO HYJACK THIS THREAD.
1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
WHY DO YOU CONTINUALLY WANT TO FOCUS ON THE SINS OF ISRAEL?
Do you not KNOW WHAT THE LORD SAID to those who will be like that?
Matthew 18:23-35 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, 'Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.'
[SUP]27 [/SUP] Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, 'Pay me what you owe!'
[SUP]29 [/SUP] So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.'
[SUP]30 [/SUP] And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me.
[SUP]33 [/SUP] Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?'
[SUP]34 [/SUP] And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
[SUP]35 [/SUP] So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses."
1 Peter 4:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.
Are you saying I am not born again just because I do not see your response in tons of irrelevant sentences?
I hope not.
I posted not even one sin of Israel. I just ask you, why do you say that verses "for Israel" are THE WORD OF GOD (you like using capitals in such a case) and why dont you think that verses "against Israel" are the WORD OF GOD too?
Are you traying to silence me by determent? Not working...
I hope not.
I posted not even one sin of Israel. I just ask you, why do you say that verses "for Israel" are THE WORD OF GOD (you like using capitals in such a case) and why dont you think that verses "against Israel" are the WORD OF GOD too?
Are you traying to silence me by determent? Not working...
"When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy. They began to contradict what Paul was saying and heaped abuse on him.
Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles."
Acts 13:46
"Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism [to nations] but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right."
Acts 10:34
"Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children."
Hosea 4:6
Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles."
Acts 13:46
"Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism [to nations] but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right."
Acts 10:34
"Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children."
Hosea 4:6
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Do you NOT understand the LORD wrote the Names of EVERYONE WHO WOULD BE SAVED, in the Book of Life, before HE FORMED THE WORLD? DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT GOD KNOWS EVERYTHING, PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE?
2 Timothy 3:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness,
2 Peter 1:20-21 (NCV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Most of all, you must understand this: No prophecy in the Scriptures ever comes from the prophet’s own interpretation.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] No prophecy ever came from what a person wanted to say, but people led by the Holy Spirit spoke words from God.
PLEASE TAKE THESE NON-SUBJECT comments to another thread.