Not By Works

[Desertsrose]

Not only would they reject God after having seen Him, but they do, & they have. The Bible tells us that man is without exvuse because everywhere in creation shows He is.

That's why the doctrine of "so others can see Jesus in you" is a false one. They saw Him in the flesh. They saw Him perform miracles. They saw Him teach. Yet, He was still despised and rejected.

You have been given the gift of saving faith by God, & you have chosen to accept that gift. Your eyes were opened so that you could see The Truth. Hallelujah! - is really all I can say to that!

Thank you for your post.

Hi Terrie,

Welcome to CC!

I'd like to understand what you mean by the doctrine of 'so others can see Jesus in you'; I don't think I've heard that one yet or maybe it's not clicking with my tired brain right now. Do you mind explaining what you mean?

It's nice to have you in the forums and hope you enjoy it here.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Hi Stunned.........I guess I won't ask.

Oh well alright then, since you insist.
A jar of peanut butter and a jar of jelly and I filled a spoon with peanut butter then kept dipping it in the jelly. (But I'm the only one in the house who ever eats jelly so it's okay.) Please don't hold this against me.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Hi undergrace,

Jesus tells us to strive to enter the narrow gate.

Your quote in 2 Peter is telling us what we need to add to our faith. We are to do this. We are to work with the Lord and the Spirit and actively grow in Christ. It's His power within us that enables us to add those things to our faith.

1 Timothy 4:6-11
In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following. But have nothing to do with worldly fables fit only for old women. On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness; for bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come. It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance. For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. Prescribe and teach these things.

Not only are we to work and strive, but this is to be taught to believers; it's also the Lord's prescription for Godly living to labor and strive.

I think it becomes more passive as we go along. At least for me it has been this way.

 

[Stephen63]

This posts proves a simple truth.....that you, like the Pharisee of old, You sit in the seat of judgment judging without the facts and based upon your working for bias opinion.....you assume that we do not obey, commit or submit to the word....erroneously I might add!

Are you saying I sit in judgment like you do when you call everyone works salvationists? Really?

In my book, comparing me to you, you just cussed me out!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Hey...does oyster67 still come in here? I haven't seen him in a long time. I miss him...

 

[TruthTalk]

"Our works, deeds, fruit, obedience do prove that we are His children."

Please tell what are all of these works that you do to prove you are his child; if works, be specific what works, what kind of deeds, bearing fruit; what type of fruit, where by evangelizing the lost; how should we be obedient in what way's. Otherwise this is just Christian lingo that sounds nice - notice that a salvation by works believer will never specify what they do.

Oh foolish Galatians; "Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?" Galatians3:3[SUP][/SUP]

"By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
John13:35.

 

[Stephen63]

I just looked up something on the internet only to find out the meaning had changed..... badly I might add.

***embarrassed***

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

"Our works, deeds, fruit, obedience do prove that we are His children."

Please tell what are all of these works that you do to prove you are his child; if works, be specific what works, what kind of deeds, bearing fruit; what type of fruit, where by evangelizing the lost; how should we be obedient in what way's. Otherwise this is just Christian lingo that sounds nice - notice that a salvation by works believer will never specify what they do.

Oh foolish Galatians; "Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?" Galatians3:3

"By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
John13:35.

Yep. Without love, it's all just a sham. That's why I don't understand presenting the truth as you understand it in a nonconciliatory, raging, accusing, puffed up way and yet thinking you're doing ANY work for God.

 

[preacher4truth]

Are you saying I sit in judgment like you do when you call everyone works salvationists? Really?

In my book, comparing me to you, you just cussed me out!

Actually, he nailed you bro and I'm glad for one that he did because you deserved it for that lying tirade.

Your post condemning (yes, actually condemning) all osas as you did, the slander and false accusations? That was way out of line and untrue. There are many many godly people who believe the doctrine of preservation and many are on this site whom you've condemned with your disdain laden false words.

Act like the Christian you accuse others of not being. I've yet to see it.

 

[Persuaded]

Actually, he nailed you bro and I'm glad for one that he did because you deserved it for that lying tirade.

Your post condemning (yes, actually condemning) all osas as you did, the slander and false accusations? That was way out of line and untrue. There are many many godly people who believe the doctrine of preservation and many are on this site whom you've condemned with your disdain laden false words.

Act like the Christian you accuse others of not being. I've yet to see it.

Preach on brother!!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

If you really study out the women caught in Adultery you might come to a valid conclusion the woman was not the only one who sinned....and that the SIN of Adultery was manufactured.....the woman was a pawn in a very sadistic game of deception between the Pharisees and their attempt to trap Jesus....Jesus schooled them....

The real sinners in this story are the pharisees and their religion, and it is religion who comes to steal, kill and destroy....

Haha! You don't have to study it to come to that conclusion that she wasn't the only one who sinned. I'd be surprised if a single woman has read that story and not had the very first thought be - wait a minute! Where is the man? Did he run away and they couldn't catch him or did they give him a pass??

I can't understand your thought that it was manufactured, because if it were, why would Jesus say I forgive you, I don't condemn you either?

 

[Terrie431]

Hi, DRose. May I call you that? Thank you for your kind welcome.

Over here in the U.S., that doctrine is prevalent in formal preaching. As I was telling Stunned, it often goes like this: "We live a righteous life (do good works., etc.), so others can see Jesus in us". I believe it is false because people couldn't see Jesus in Jesus; living righteously is for God's Glory; the carnal man has no understanding of spiritual matters; & faith cometh by hearing & hearing by the Word of God.

I think it is a doctrine that is used to aide in avoiding mentioning Jesus' Name in the spreading of the Good News of Jesus Christ to the world. Similarly, I think that of inviting non-believers to church. I think that because Paul tells us not to be unequally yoked and that darkness doesn't have anything to do with Light. Church is a place for believers (yes, CHRISTians) to go to worship God together, to fellowship, to encourage and lift up one another, & to spur one another to good deeds. To finish the race toward the Grand Prize (i.e., eternal life with Jesus).

Thank you for your response.

 

[TruthTalk]

Yep. Without love, it's all just a sham. That's why I don't understand presenting the truth as you understand it in a nonconciliatory, raging, accusing, puffed up way and yet thinking you're doing ANY work for God.

Where is boasting but in the cross of Jesus who took our place on that "Old Wooden Cross" who shed His precious blood for you and I and the world.

 

[Desertsrose]

Oh well alright then, since you insist.
A jar of peanut butter and a jar of jelly and I filled a spoon with peanut butter then kept dipping it in the jelly. (But I'm the only one in the house who ever eats jelly so it's okay.) Please don't hold this against me.

LOL, actually that sounds delicious to me. I will peel a banana and take peanut butter and slather the banana before it passes to my lips. So so yummy!

 

[Persuaded]

That's the thing with these OSAS's, easy believists, & hypergracers, they all have the same thing in common: no commitment, no submission, & very little obedience.

It's no wonder they don't believe in the Falling Away.

That is a bold face lie.
I will say it again, that is a bold face lie.
But, I expect nothing else from you.
You continue lie about what people believe.
I have never in my life seen a man so self centered and selfrighteous as you are.
May God help you.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I just looked up something on the internet only to find out the meaning had changed..... badly I might add.

***embarrassed***

And yet your vicious and ugly mutterings against your brothers DOESN'T embarrass you? You disdain them and attack them unlovingly because they do not have some perfect understanding of God that you think you have. You berate them for whatever you deem to be a wrong thought or understanding. You allow no man his own thought on a matter or on a verse. And so you become embarrassed that you used a word wrong whose definition has changed??

 

[Ariel82]

Eternal life with Jesus is not a "grand prize" it's a gift.

Church should be a place where all are welcomed to worship God and learn about Him because no one knows who God is calling and how He is working in their hearts.

Jesus tells us to let our light to shine before men to God's glory.

Hmmmm....

 

[Persuaded]

And yet your vicious and ugly mutterings against your brothers DOESN'T embarrass you? You disdain them and attack them unlovingly because they do not have some perfect understanding of God that you think you have. You berate them for whatever you deem to be a wrong thought or understanding. You allow no man his own thought on a matter or on a verse. And so you become embarrassed that you used a word wrong whose definition has changed??

Reminds me of of the ones Jesus speaks about in Luke 18:9.

 

[Grace777x70]

The man preached the gospel in the video.

Make no mistake about it - there is an all out war on the gospel of the grace of God in Christ and it will come from religious people in their own denominations.

We need to walk in love towards them but expect to be personally attacked but we also need to guard our hearts too. It is the "MO" of this spirit that comes against the grace of God in Christ.

We are all blind until we see Christ. He is our life! He does love us deeper and way beyond we can ever imagine with our natural minds - but He is revealing Himself to us.

We have a good, good Father and a loving Lord.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

That is a bold face lie.
I will say it again, that is a bold face lie.
But, I expect nothing else from you.
You continue lie about what people believe.
I have never in my life seen a man so self centered and selfrighteous as you are.
May God help you.

Examine this, really. EG and dcon have been gaining mastery over their tongues (by leaps and bounds.) They have been achieving this through trusting God. Is there a single person in here who hasn't thanked God for it?

Yet that man has NO control over his tongue but claims to be obedient.

It's a tight and concise example of trust versus working to be holy ("so called," because it's a sham).