Not By Works
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Lol.
This is like saying, a heroin addict who says you can never be cured or go without
a fix, never says it is a good thing to be an addict.
They just never claim they can be cured which means they are always taking the drug and
continually live under its effect.
Now the crazy thing about this position, is 99% of the church has a problem with
walking in holiness and purity, and finds defining what this means and going through
ones failures very painful, so best avoided.
But God says simply, work through these things and in the end you will be transformed.
The tension is always not repressing your emotional life but directing it appropriately.
What is staggering is how common emotional repression is used which makes people more
vulnerable, rather than finding resolution to their needs by openness and vulnerability.
Sexual relationships are a classic example, which in years go by, one liason often led to
a death sentence with a lingering STD or a child who change the course of peoples whole
lives.
Little wonder so much morality, guilt etc is around this very issue, which nowdays is talked
as if the consequences are irrelevant.
This is like saying, a heroin addict who says you can never be cured or go without
a fix, never says it is a good thing to be an addict.
They just never claim they can be cured which means they are always taking the drug and
continually live under its effect.
Now the crazy thing about this position, is 99% of the church has a problem with
walking in holiness and purity, and finds defining what this means and going through
ones failures very painful, so best avoided.
But God says simply, work through these things and in the end you will be transformed.
The tension is always not repressing your emotional life but directing it appropriately.
What is staggering is how common emotional repression is used which makes people more
vulnerable, rather than finding resolution to their needs by openness and vulnerability.
Sexual relationships are a classic example, which in years go by, one liason often led to
a death sentence with a lingering STD or a child who change the course of peoples whole
lives.
Little wonder so much morality, guilt etc is around this very issue, which nowdays is talked
as if the consequences are irrelevant.
Hebrews 11:7
New International VersionBy faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.
New Living Translation
It was by faith that Noah built a large boat to save his family from the flood. He obeyed God, who warned him about things that had never happened before. By his faith Noah condemned the rest of the world, and he received the righteousness that comes by faith.
English Standard Version
By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
Berean Study Bible
By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in godly fear built an ark to save his family. By faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
Berean Literal Bible
By faith Noah, having been divinely instructed concerning the things not yet seen, having been moved with fear, prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is according to faith.
New American Standard Bible
By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
King James Bible
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
By faith Noah, after he was warned about what was not yet seen and motivated by godly fear, built an ark to deliver his family. By faith he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
International Standard Version
By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, reverently prepared an ark to save his family, and by faith he condemned the world and inherited the righteousness that comes by faith.
Works follows faith always, therefore works are the evidence that faith is alive & not dead.
God told Noah to build the ark to save him and his family and the animals ( grace ). Noah BELIEVED ( faith ). then he built the ark ( works ). the same thing Paul said- grace, faith, works. if you would actually look at stuff with a round view, instead of trying to force everything into a works pinhole , you might see Biblical harmony.
hiya, Stephen, how are you? i worry about you and pray for you. just based on something you posted last year. 
unbelief is a battle, don't you think? it's a sin? i struggle with it... am i alone in that?
i'm NOT saying we don't need to obey God in action, because of course we do! yet i think we often forget the need to believe God.
that's a command, too.
unbelief is a battle, don't you think? it's a sin? i struggle with it... am i alone in that?
i'm NOT saying we don't need to obey God in action, because of course we do! yet i think we often forget the need to believe God.
that's a command, too.
E
Hi all...Just wondering what is easy believism and hypergrace...I have never researched these things so do not understand what they mean, are they man made twist on Scriptures, i ask this because i see a lot of people speaking against them...The knowledge that i am learning is from my Bible, and i do watch a few pastors from old just to help me a long the way...I made a post yesterday saying that i believe osas but now i am thinking that`s not the term to use because i had never used that term in the 22 months of being saved, i just believed that i am saved because i truly believe that the Lord is my Savior and it s He who is working in me, the Scriptures tell me i am saved, i never questioned it utill i came to this thread, then reading through post i got confused, i started doubting what i had been taught from the Bible, i was fearing mans word over Gods word, now i am settled knowing that i am truly saved, i am not believing this out of fear and pretending, i believe it because it is the truth, maybe one day as i become more mature in the word i will understand why their are disputes about salvation, but for now i just rest in Him, trust, lean and rely on Him, just as He has told me to and let Him grow me ...praise the Lord...\o/...xox...
...praise the Lord...\o/...xox...
they are terms generally used by those apposed to grace to try to fight it. as far as I can tell, Hypergrace was a term used by a pastor we are not supposed to discuss, in an attempt to show how grace was hyper (more than enough to save all souls) Easy believism is used by people who are fighting grace, they use it to describe a fea that grace teaches people to sin, so we should fight against it.
If he's abiding he will! If he is trusting in God to somehow change him, even though he sees awful hypocrisies and deceitfulness in himself and has no idea how God will accomplish it because it seems impossible, he will obey because God will teach him and change him. And he won't obey outwardly then, while his heart is a filthy mess, but he will obey inwardly, where God looks and judges correctly. It will be slowly sometimes and he will think God is very slow, but God will be working to produce more humility, death of the pride that gets it's feelings hurt and wants to hit back or revile back. When those things decrease, He will increase and flood a man with His love. But where some love of self and concern for self-life exist, the man can not yet bear more of the beams of love. God knows what He's doing.
E
remember also. Some here like to associate hypergrace with Word of Faith teaching. Word of faith is not a gospel. it is a belief of somethign which happens to Gods already saved children. So when it comes to the gospel. trying to associate wof (a non salvic doctrine) with grace (a salvic doctrine) is just another ploy to try to take away from the truth of what is really going on.
Even if you disagree with WOF (I do myself) you can still agree with the grace message of salvation they tough..when the war first started, all the posts used by them to discredit the grace message of HG was proven to be in error.
Even if you disagree with WOF (I do myself) you can still agree with the grace message of salvation they tough..when the war first started, all the posts used by them to discredit the grace message of HG was proven to be in error.
E
Don't be afraid, test the message out.. For yourself.. and do not just take people word for it. The apposing side will not give you the truth of what it really is, and you should never trust the defending side (or anyone for that matter) blindly.
History has also shown that people have taken a stand against something they disagree with, and instead of just trying to find a true outcome, when 180 degrees away from them in order to make sure they had no part of it.
The jews were afraid of easy believism, so they added law
The church is afraid of easy believism. so they add modern day works.
Licentiousness (a belief we can say a prayer and be saved dand live however we want, and never change) is replaced with works. (legalism)
in the middle is true grace, and what the apposing side has done is take one false gospel. (licentiousness) and dreplaced it with another. (works)
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For the record, I do not believe nor teach that the preservation of the saints (what some call osas) equals easy-believe-ism or hypergrace.
True conversion isn't living a lawless life.
Some use the example of the Corinthians living in immorality, carnality &c as a proof that believers live this way. Not trying to start a fight over that, it's just that thinking is incomplete.
In fact that teaching is a bit short-sighted and fails to consider more context. Note 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 is served as a warning to these professing believers. There was nothing guaranteeing these were genuine converts as a whole, if so, imo they would repent and progress in sanctification proving conversion, or at the least appearing to be genuine.
Anyone naming Christ who lives in a lifestyle and practice of sin is living a lie. This is one reason we should be cautious in affirming someone with 1 John 5:13, as the context of that passage only belongs to those who pass the tests of the epistle concerning the evidences of genuine conversion.
Paul also warns these believers in 1 Corinthians 15:2 that perhaps they believed in vain, he also warns them to examine themselves, 2 Corinthians 13:5. These are all indicators of looking for evidence of conversion, of not being presumptuous, and that Paul wasn't naìve, nor should we be naìve. Note also Ephesians 5:5&c, Galatians 5:19ff.
Note: I am speaking of evidence of conversion, not of works salvation. Some may attempt to twist it into that, but I'm not biting.
True conversion isn't living a lawless life.
Some use the example of the Corinthians living in immorality, carnality &c as a proof that believers live this way. Not trying to start a fight over that, it's just that thinking is incomplete.
In fact that teaching is a bit short-sighted and fails to consider more context. Note 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 is served as a warning to these professing believers. There was nothing guaranteeing these were genuine converts as a whole, if so, imo they would repent and progress in sanctification proving conversion, or at the least appearing to be genuine.
Anyone naming Christ who lives in a lifestyle and practice of sin is living a lie. This is one reason we should be cautious in affirming someone with 1 John 5:13, as the context of that passage only belongs to those who pass the tests of the epistle concerning the evidences of genuine conversion.
Paul also warns these believers in 1 Corinthians 15:2 that perhaps they believed in vain, he also warns them to examine themselves, 2 Corinthians 13:5. These are all indicators of looking for evidence of conversion, of not being presumptuous, and that Paul wasn't naìve, nor should we be naìve. Note also Ephesians 5:5&c, Galatians 5:19ff.
Note: I am speaking of evidence of conversion, not of works salvation. Some may attempt to twist it into that, but I'm not biting.
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A
Wow...,lordship salvation only teaches the third of this list... That Jesus is Lord and Savior....the other two are false accusations, but no one cares as long as they make their point.
******
"lordship salvation camp, they teach that one must stop
sinning to be born again, or that works are part of being saved, or that one has to make Jesus Lord and Saviour for
salvation,"
******
"lordship salvation camp, they teach that one must stop
sinning to be born again, or that works are part of being saved, or that one has to make Jesus Lord and Saviour for
salvation,"
Thank you for this ...I just think it`s best if everyone stayed away from these things and stick with the Word of God, then discussions would really be brought to the light and we could all learn something from one another...Has anyone in here from either side ever actually said to the other " wow thanks for that, you have taught me something i couldn't see " is any learning being taught, if we all walk in the same Spirit then we would all have the same fruit, maybe others grown more in certain fruits, but still, yes its good to debate, that how one gets the knots out, but to be honest, all i see in here the majority of the time is tangled webs but saying that, i have myself learned a lot in here from both sides, i dont like saying sides, am not on anyone's side, only my Lords side...xox...
but saying that, i have myself learned a lot in here from both sides, i dont like saying sides, am not on anyone's side, only my Lords side...xox...Even our own lawmakers understand that there are times a man can lose control in a violent burst of anger and that is why there are stiffer penalties for premeditated murder than for murder committed in the heat of the moment. Are secular lawmakers now more aware of what is in man than the religious are??
Thank you for this ...I just think it`s best if everyone stayed away from these things and stick with the Word of God, then discussions would really be brought to the light and we could all learn something from one another...Has anyone in here from either side ever actually said to the other " wow thanks for that, you have taught me something i couldn't see " is any learning being taught, if we all walk in the same Spirit then we would all have the same fruit, maybe others grown more in certain fruits, but still, yes its good to debate, that how one gets the knots out, but to be honest, all i see in here the majority of the time is tangled webs but saying that, i have myself learned a lot in here from both sides, i dont like saying sides, am not on anyone's side, only my Lords side...xox...
but saying that, i have myself learned a lot in here from both sides, i dont like saying sides, am not on anyone's side, only my Lords side...xox...