The Rapture

[Locutus]

Dan 9:24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

Whether the above anointing describes Christ himself or the holy place the fate of "your people and your holy city" are tied to 70 weeks.

Heb 9:12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

We know that "your people and your holy city" were dealt a devastating blow in the war of 66-70 AD.

Unless we find in scripture another "holy city" and another "your people" after this date then to be looking for a future fulfilling of Daniel's prophecy is based on fancy and poor theological reasoning.

Isa 65:15 You will leave your name for a curse to My chosen ones, and the Lord GOD will slay you. But My servants will be called by another name.

Isaiah stated that when "Israel/Judah" were slain his people would be called by another name, and they aren't modern day "Jewry" after the flesh.

 

[PlainWord]

I'm going to go through each one of your points one by one so I can see where you stand.

First, where in the world do you get Paul saying the second coming would happen in 70 AD?

[SUP]22 [/SUP]For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

I assume He was speaking of His Second Coming, i.e. parousia of 70 AD and not Christ's resurrection.

 

[Locutus]

Heb 10:37 For, “In just a little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay.”

I guess Hebrews is talking about Santa Claus.

 

[Denadii]

[SUP]22 [/SUP]For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

I assume He was speaking of His Second Coming, i.e. parousia of 70 AD and not Christ's resurrection.

Plainword, are you saying Jesus second coming was in 70 AD?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Plainword, are you saying Jesus second coming was in 70 AD?

I'm afraid that he is Denadii! And since he believes that, then he must believe that all of the following has taken place:

=====================================================

Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God.

The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God, the Almighty. And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh: King of kings and Lord of lords.

Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice to all the birds flying overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of all men slave and free, small and great.”

Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to wage war against the One seated on the horse, and against His army. But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed signs on his behalf, by which he deceived those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse.

And all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

=====================================================

If all of this had happened, including the events of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, you'd think that there would definitely be a record of it somewhere.

Wait until they see the real thing!

 

[KJV1611]

[SUP]22 [/SUP]For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

I assume He was speaking of His Second Coming, i.e. parousia of 70 AD and not Christ's resurrection.

Or it could be a future coming. But what I want to know is where is the 70 ad parousia in the bible.

 

[Denadii]

I'm afraid that he is Denadii! And since he believes that, then he must believe that all of the following has taken place:

=====================================================

Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God.

The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God, the Almighty. And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh: King of kings and Lord of lords.

Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice to all the birds flying overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of all men slave and free, small and great.”

Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to wage war against the One seated on the horse, and against His army. But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed signs on his behalf, by which he deceived those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse.

And all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

=====================================================

If all of this had happened, including the events of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, you'd think that there would definitely be a record of it somewhere.

Wait until they see the real thing!

Whooo! How unfortunate. If one does not have their facts right, if one does not know what was going on, or understand what was going on, there is no way he can know what is happening or understand what is happening in the now.

 

[Locutus]

Luke 21:20 When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.

Luke 21:22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of ALL that has been written.

The prophecy of Daniel was one of the above "that had been written"

So either Daniel was wrong or Jesus was wrong if Daniel's 70 weeks were not fulfilled when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies in the 1st century AD.

Paul's preaching only included what Moses and the prophets foretold:

Acts 26:22 “So, having obtained help from God, I stand to this day testifying both to small and great, stating nothing but what the Prophets and Moses said was going to take place.

 

[Bogadile]

So how does this all end up in your view PW? Does the world and sin continue on and on forever?

This we all would like to know, but because they have neutralized Rev 21 they cannot answer.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Whooo! How unfortunate. If one does not have their facts right, if one does not know what was going on, or understand what was going on, there is no way he can know what is happening or understand what is happening in the now.

BINGO!

Too bad those who believe as he does don't get it! They'll have to see if first hand.

If anything, the fact that we are now seeing people here in the US having RFID chips implanted under the skin of the hand, which fits perfectly with the prophecy regarding the mark of the beast in Rev.13:16 should be a proof to them that end-time events leading up to Christ's real return to the earth are all about to take place.

Once the church has been gathered, then that ruler, the antichrist, will establish his seven year agreement with Israel and then God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will follow. The literal wrath of God, not the destruction of the temple, but the destruction of the entire planet and the decimation of the majority of the earths population.

They won't get it until they see it! That is unless of course that they are really brain-washed believing that the antichrist is the Messiah. I hope not!

 

[Locutus]

Some of yus need to get a braille bible so you can get a better feel for scripture cos yer stumbling around like blind men..

 

[Bogadile]

Luke 21:20 When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.

Luke 21:22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of ALL that has been written.

The prophecy of Daniel was one of the above "that had been written"

So either Daniel was wrong or Jesus was wrong if Daniel's 70 weeks were not fulfilled when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies in the 1st century AD.

Paul's preaching only included what Moses and the prophets foretold:

Acts 26:22 “So, having obtained help from God, I stand to this day testifying both to small and great, stating nothing but what the Prophets and Moses said was going to take place.

I love full-preterism in that: When the book of Revelation (or rest of the Bible for that matter) uses the words 'all' or 'world', they do not mean literal 'world' or literal 'all' but something else. Yet here the word ALL that has been written does mean every single prophecy being fulfilled in AD70, even death was abolished, new heaven and earth created, glorified bodies, no more tears oh wait none of that happened? Well lets spiritualize them and call people who think Jesus' return is more than a destruction of a city with its temple 'carnal' and lacking understanding. (I like to call it the gnostic-ace in the sleeve)

 

[Ahwatukee]

Sorry for high-jacking your post again!

Originally Posted by KJV1611

So how does this all end up in your view PW? Does the world and sin continue on and on forever?

Those who enter into the millennial period will still be in their mortal bodies and will still have their sinful nature throughout that entire period. The rebellion at the end of the thousand years demonstrates that. After the great white throne judgment and during the time of the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem, everyone will be in their immortal and glorified bodies and there will be no more sin. Those whose names that are not found in the book of life will have been thrown into the lake of fire.

So in answer to the question, sin will end after the great white throne judgment.

 

[KJV1611]

Heb 10:37 For, “In just a little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay.”

I guess Hebrews is talking about Santa Claus.

Hebrews 10:36-37 KJV
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

[37] For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

People that do the will of God recieve the promise of what? The Holy Spirit.

 

[Locutus]

.........

 

[Denadii]

Luke 21:20 When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.

Luke 21:22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of ALL that has been written.

The prophecy of Daniel was one of the above "that had been written"

So either Daniel was wrong or Jesus was wrong if Daniel's 70 weeks were not fulfilled when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies in the 1st century AD.

Paul's preaching only included what Moses and the prophets foretold:

Acts 26:22 “So, having obtained help from God, I stand to this day testifying both to small and great, stating nothing but what the Prophets and Moses said was going to take place.

It seems obvious that Daniel was not talking of that event at all. Daniel did not get it wrong, Jesus did not get it wrong. YOU got it wrong. You did not take your learning from the Holy Spirit but from your own intellect. Wrong source. There was an event in 70 AD otherwise you would not be confusing it with an event yet to come.

 

[Locutus]

........................

 

[J7]

The most Holy place is the Real Holy of Holies in heaven. (The earthly temple is fashioned on the heavenly)

The war was AD67-73; historicists should embrace historical accuracy.

Otherwise correct.

Dan 9:24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

Whether the above anointing describes Christ himself or the holy place the fate of "your people and your holy city" are tied to 70 weeks.

Heb 9:12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

We know that "your people and your holy city" were dealt a devastating blow in the war of 66-70 AD.

Unless we find in scripture another "holy city" and another "your people" after this date then to be looking for a future fulfilling of Daniel's prophecy is based on fancy and poor theological reasoning.

Isa 65:15 You will leave your name for a curse to My chosen ones, and the Lord GOD will slay you. But My servants will be called by another name.

Isaiah stated that when "Israel/Judah" were slain his people would be called by another name, and they aren't modern day "Jewry" after the flesh.

 

[J7]

You have simply arbitrarily ascribed AD70 as the time of the Parousia.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

I assume He was speaking of His Second Coming, i.e. parousia of 70 AD and not Christ's resurrection.

 

[J7]

Two errors here:

1) Failure to understand the Greek; this is erchomai not parousia
2) Failure to identify the 'he'; it is neither Christ nor your suggested alternative

Heb 10:37 For, “In just a little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay.”

I guess Hebrews is talking about Santa Claus.