Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I do hope so sincerly i do however how can you recieve salvation straight after beeing bornagain when the bible is clear you must be born of the firstfruits befor you enter his kingdom.. meaning two seperate events ? born again befor you receive salvation ie entering his kingdom salvation..............
two seperate events...
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Whether we see faith from ourselves or from God, lack of faith cannot cause us to loose our salvation, they keep trying to draw us into the argument, they are shifting the focus but it is the wrong focus.
The act of faith is only part of the equation, He makes the pronouncement and he causes us to be born again.
I love the reference to "He is the author and finisher of our faith"
Being born again is the start and finish right there, we could live a hundred more years or die the next day.
He has started and finished it in eternity (eternal life) not moment by moment here on earth til our last breath, that is why we know we are secure.
After we are born again it is all about our walk here on earth but that walk cannot change the eternal decree.
Once born again then they need to explain how that is undone, they cannot be because it is a an eternal decree outside of this earthly time and space
The act of faith is only part of the equation, He makes the pronouncement and he causes us to be born again.
I love the reference to "He is the author and finisher of our faith"
Being born again is the start and finish right there, we could live a hundred more years or die the next day.
He has started and finished it in eternity (eternal life) not moment by moment here on earth til our last breath, that is why we know we are secure.
After we are born again it is all about our walk here on earth but that walk cannot change the eternal decree.
Once born again then they need to explain how that is undone, they cannot be because it is a an eternal decree outside of this earthly time and space
I have never heard of this term 'born of the first fruits'. Can you offer some scripture to clarify this?
Now would be a good time for Ralph to show up...
He'd shut this down in a nano second.
(I don't know what that means...)
Yes, I knew you were talking to him. I just wanted to let him know, if he can hear me, that I don't give a gentle rebuke because someone has offended me. I give it because I love them. If I feel offended by them, I shut down my computer immediately and I go to God immediately over my lack of love. Love takes no offense and doesn't hold a grudge. It doesn't seek its own. If I take offense, the problem is my lack of love, not whatever another person does or says.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
The bible does say that the good work that God has started in a person He will most certainly complete. I agree with your stand on salvation completely.
W
willybob
Guest
many will perceive that this is saving oneself, however ONLY the mercy of God can forgive past sins....so don't worry about saving yourself in repentance its a work that the angels in heaven rejoice over........be blessed
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Repentance means to change one's mind, it is not about sorrow for sins.
We change our minds and cease form our dead works and instead accept the works of Jesus who was perfect.
Originally Posted by willybob 
many don't seem to understand what justification means...the only way a sinner can be justified is by coming clean with God in the baptism of repentance...The cross, and Jesus atoning blood, allowed for the mercy of God to be dispensed upon repented sinners, for HE is the propitiation (mercy seat) of God in the process of reconciliation..........The concept of coming to the cross is also confused by the HG's....It is a place that sinners come to crucify the flesh in repentance, laying down their weapons of sin and rebellious war against God, and then buried with Him in the baptism of repentance, then raised anew as a vessel fit for the Masters use.....Repentance is a serious work not to be mocked, no doubt the most important work one will ever do in their life...........be blessed
We change our minds and cease form our dead works and instead accept the works of Jesus who was perfect.
many don't seem to understand what justification means...the only way a sinner can be justified is by coming clean with God in the baptism of repentance...The cross, and Jesus atoning blood, allowed for the mercy of God to be dispensed upon repented sinners, for HE is the propitiation (mercy seat) of God in the process of reconciliation..........The concept of coming to the cross is also confused by the HG's....It is a place that sinners come to crucify the flesh in repentance, laying down their weapons of sin and rebellious war against God, and then buried with Him in the baptism of repentance, then raised anew as a vessel fit for the Masters use.....Repentance is a serious work not to be mocked, no doubt the most important work one will ever do in their life...........be blessed
Go read her posts and then keep defending a liar....that simple....guilt by association....good luck standing in her lot
We are saved for eternal life through the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ...We have accepted Christ into our hearts, we have confessed with our mouth that He is Lord of Lord, King of kings...We ARE sealed, and i don`t believe we can fall away because we have the HELPER in us who catches us when we fall, slip, stumble Praise God \o/...I believe that those who say they have come to the faith and fell back into the world were never truly saved, people can kid people, but God will not be mocked...I have been on this thread long enough to see it from both sides, i have been swayed one way, then another, but now i stand in this post, and the reason i say that is because the holy Spirit tells me with the Peace i feel that i am on the right path...I believe once saved always saved, the work that my Lord Jesus is doing in me makes me want to obey Him, i want to walk in the fruits He is giving me, my urges to go back out and worldly are becoming less and less
children of God would not want to walk away, if they do, they were never saved...xox...
children of God would not want to walk away, if they do, they were never saved...xox...
We are saved, "unto good works," not by them. And we live our Christian life under grace, not under law. When judgment Day comes God knows who is saved and who is not - "To God be the glory great things He has done."
Ephesians 2:8-10: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus "unto good works" which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Romans:6:14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
Amazing Grace by: John Newton: 1724 - 1807. He wrote these words from personal experience.
Through many dangers, toils, and snares
I have already come
Tis' grace hath brought me safe thus far
And grace will lead me home.
Ephesians 2:8-10: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus "unto good works" which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Romans:6:14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
Amazing Grace by: John Newton: 1724 - 1807. He wrote these words from personal experience.
Through many dangers, toils, and snares
I have already come
Tis' grace hath brought me safe thus far
And grace will lead me home.
Well..... now dcon deflects Ugly for being honest..... that's going to an all-time low.
I have come to the conclusion all you do is troll looking for chances to make mouthy comments directed at all who you disagree with....I have yet to see you be honest when dealing aginst those you disagree with while defending those you agree with who have done something contrary and or when they have been caught in a misrepresentation of the facts.......so by all means.....continuing on your working for path.......
U
UnderGrace
Guest
This is lovely and thank you for sharing.
I have been born again for over thirty years and I can tell you people do fall away from grace (still saved), we are under grace as believers,
and loose hold of their focus/abiding in Jesus, one does not have to be sinning to be on the wrong side of grace, others do fall into sin for a time,
but the main thing to remember we do not look at other people we keep our eyes on Jesus.
And if we should stumble and fall and loose our way Jesus is a Good Shepherd and He has absolutely promised to find us.
So we cannot say for certain that they were not saved, but we do know that Jesus is faithful to His word and He will deal with those that are His.
I have been born again for over thirty years and I can tell you people do fall away from grace (still saved), we are under grace as believers,
and loose hold of their focus/abiding in Jesus, one does not have to be sinning to be on the wrong side of grace, others do fall into sin for a time,
but the main thing to remember we do not look at other people we keep our eyes on Jesus.
And if we should stumble and fall and loose our way Jesus is a Good Shepherd and He has absolutely promised to find us.
So we cannot say for certain that they were not saved, but we do know that Jesus is faithful to His word and He will deal with those that are His.
We are saved for eternal life through the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ...We have accepted Christ into our hearts, we have confessed with our mouth that He is Lord of Lord, King of kings...We ARE sealed, and i don`t believe we can fall away because we have the HELPER in us who catches us when we fall, slip, stumble Praise God \o/...I believe that those who say they have come to the faith and fell back into the world were never truly saved, people can kid people, but God will not be mocked...I have been on this thread long enough to see it from both sides, i have been swayed one way, then another, but now i stand in this post, and the reason i say that is because the holy Spirit tells me with the Peace i feel that i am on the right path...I believe once saved always saved, the work that my Lord Jesus is doing in me makes me want to obey Him, i want to walk in the fruits He is giving me, my urges to go back out and worldly are becoming less and less
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Not only that - but you must still have a wok on the day you die or your loving Father will throw you into hell.
"Wok" softly and carry a big bible so that we can terrorize others with....
Hi in sunny England!
It simply means that every person must have personal faith in Christ when they hear the gospel message of His finished work on the cross and resurrection. It's God's will for all people to come to know Him and receive Christ.
Amen Rosemary. If is the determining word we need to keep in mind. If we are truly saved, we will persevere to the end because God is our Father and He empowers us to keep on the strait and narrow path.
I prefer saying that we are assured of salvation, if we continue in the faith and we will if we're truly saved. Or we will persevere if we continue to abide in the vine and we will if we are truly saved.
There's too many that say OSAS that think all you have to do is walk down an aisle and say Jesus is Lord and then get baptized and that's all you ever have to do. The person may be living the same lifestyle he did beforehand, but he walked down that aisle to the pastor so he's saved forever. And yes, I hear this statement in one of the churches I attended and others around them were in agreement with this woman.
The bible teaches us that we will see a changed life. Works do follow. So I could never tell a person that once their saved they're always saved because not everyone understands what it truly means to be saved. Some think it's just mental assent. Yes I believe in God and that's all there is to it.
So I do believe that a person is saved by grace through faith. But the power of God at work in them explodes out of them and they can't help but begin a life of obedience because the love of God is poured out into their hearts and that love of God's is a powerful thing.
I just wish people here would stop calling others names, or belittling, or gossiping, or telling others they're not saved. We are all on a journey towards truth. Some of us learn at a slower pace than others. Give people the benefit of the doubt. And let your own speech be full of grace. This judging needs to stop. Judge the teaching as we're told. Show scripture as to why someone may be wrong. But don't attack the person. This is devilish. It's not from the Spirit of God. Please brothers/sisters......we need to close down this thread if this is what we're going to stoop to.
May God bless us all with His true knowledge that will help all of us to grow in the true knowledge of Jesus Christ, our Savior and Lord. Hallelujah! Praise Him!
I prefer saying that we are assured of salvation, if we continue in the faith and we will if we're truly saved. Or we will persevere if we continue to abide in the vine and we will if we are truly saved.
There's too many that say OSAS that think all you have to do is walk down an aisle and say Jesus is Lord and then get baptized and that's all you ever have to do. The person may be living the same lifestyle he did beforehand, but he walked down that aisle to the pastor so he's saved forever. And yes, I hear this statement in one of the churches I attended and others around them were in agreement with this woman.
The bible teaches us that we will see a changed life. Works do follow. So I could never tell a person that once their saved they're always saved because not everyone understands what it truly means to be saved. Some think it's just mental assent. Yes I believe in God and that's all there is to it.
So I do believe that a person is saved by grace through faith. But the power of God at work in them explodes out of them and they can't help but begin a life of obedience because the love of God is poured out into their hearts and that love of God's is a powerful thing.
I just wish people here would stop calling others names, or belittling, or gossiping, or telling others they're not saved. We are all on a journey towards truth. Some of us learn at a slower pace than others. Give people the benefit of the doubt. And let your own speech be full of grace. This judging needs to stop. Judge the teaching as we're told. Show scripture as to why someone may be wrong. But don't attack the person. This is devilish. It's not from the Spirit of God. Please brothers/sisters......we need to close down this thread if this is what we're going to stoop to.
May God bless us all with His true knowledge that will help all of us to grow in the true knowledge of Jesus Christ, our Savior and Lord. Hallelujah! Praise Him!
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