Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull

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#25,801
#25,801
Stunnedbygrace said:
It's like deja vu all over again...:D
We've had this discussion before. I cannot understand making remaining in trust a "work" as you define "work." Remaining in trust is a necessity. I can't comprehend using trust to save someone and then that someone dumps the trust after they get eternal life. I can't understand - not trying to be dense. I also can't understand the serious...fracture I believe I see that says I only need to trust I will live forever but as far as trusting in the storing of treasure on earth, that's optional. If I trust Him, won't I obey Him? If I don't obey Him, shouldn't I go to Him with the problem?

And I'm not saying this is actually what is in your mind - I'm saying it's what I understand you to be saying.
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I know people who think that people can be saved, and turn from faith and deny Christ and lose salvation.

You will never hear them talk about works, You will never hear them say works are required to maintain or keep salvation. You will never hear them say a person can be saved, and sit and do nothing, Or that lack of works will cause anyone to lose salvation. They will actually agree with myself and others like me, that we are saved by faith, not works.

I will not argue with them, They do not push works, they understand, a person saved will work. They understand a person who has faith will work. so work is snot even in the equation or a question to be asked. They just simply state, A person was saved, changed their mind, and decided that God is not a god at all. and renounce not only verbally but in their heaert that God is not real.

Fran is not one of those people. Fran pushes works, She pushes that people can be saved and not work, She fights against grace, She fights against all that the gospel stands for.

Please do not try to compair these two types.. because the ONLY thing which even makes them resemble each other is they both say a person who in his or her heart there is no god will not get to heaven. And we would all three agree.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#25,802
Nov 12, 2015
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#25,802
UnderGrace said:
I hear ya...gossip is rampant at my work. I get pulled in too sometimes.

I like the questions you ask yourself, I do the same, yet sometimes I just have to remove myself completely and then I do not have to worry about it.
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Hear ye, hear ye, all take note: I just caught UG in a fib! She said she never gossips and then said she sometimes gets pulled in!
I like the confession. It's GOOD for us to admit our fault! I just melt in love for someone who walks in the light of truth instead putting on airs that they aren't like others. They help me by their honest example. They spur me on to more honesty. They help to free me! I catch a whiff of that honest air and want to stay in it! :) I don't WANT to go back to the polluted air of my own self-righteous stink. Dog back to the vomit.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#25,803
#25,803
Stunnedbygrace said:
I find myself gossiping sometimes and it disgusts me. My mother and aunt pull me into it sometimes. The trick to seeing it is: would I say this to their face or not? Am I repeating something that was told to me in confidence or am I just repeating something they freely put out there for all to see or know? And finally, am I gleefully cutting them down and judging them? Or am I just discussing what they openly said?
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I add the questions:

Am I saying this because I seek to know what they believe and because of love or because of hurt feelings and out of anger?

When we speak out of anger it's not gossiping, it is called bickering when done in front of that person.

That is Why James 3 tells us to take our tongues and how to tell the difference between demonic and heavenly wisdom.

Many people forget that Satan quoted the Bible when he tempted Jesus. The three common temptations are still evident in all our lives...the question is, have we learnt to overcome?
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#25,804
#25,804
Too funny, the first time I was joking when I said I never gossip....like tongue in cheek...actually meaning that is something I do.

I guess I better put more emoticons so that I am clear or not joke!!!



Stunnedbygrace said:
Hear ye, hear ye, all take note: I just caught UG in a fib! She said she never gossips and then said she sometimes gets pulled in!
I like the confession. It's GOOD for us to admit our fault! I just melt in love for someone who walks in the light of truth instead putting on airs that they aren't like others. They help me by their honest example. They spur me on to more honesty. They help to free me! I catch a whiff of that honest air and want to stay in it! :) I don't WANT to go back to the polluted air of my own self-righteous stink. Dog back to the vomit.
Click to expand...
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#25,805
#25,805
Stunnedbygrace said:
And meanwhile...blessed are the peacemakers. NOT blessed are those who say there will never be peace until there is capitulation to what I believe and the exact wording of it that I demand. (That applies to BOTH sides of the ongoing lack of peace and refusal to bear with, love and forgive). Said out of love for you and care for you, brother. I hope you believe that I am being sincere when I say that.
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You can't make peace by telling people to ignore what they don't agree upon.

Only true peace is to see what is held in common and then examine what is not agreed upon and why. Then to agree to disagree without name calling and with prayer for one another for God to show His truth and correct our hearts and minds to His wisdom.

As I said before....works are not necessary to save someone but they are necessary to reveal God's will and to glorify Him on earth.

A renewed heart that seeks to love God and others and do God's will is also needed or the person is not saved because they are not born again.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#25,806
#25,806
Stunnedbygrace said:
And meanwhile...blessed are the peacemakers. NOT blessed are those who say there will never be peace until there is capitulation to what I believe and the exact wording of it that I demand.
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Never said otherwise.

(That applies to BOTH sides of the ongoing lack of peace and refusal to bear with, love and forgive). Said out of love for you and care for you, brother. I hope you believe that I am being sincere when I say that.
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They are still going to share what they believe and we will still counter what they say with what we believe, and vice versa (it will only be peaceful when people stop lieing about others, and are humble enough to just share what they believe and thats it) Until then, it will not stop. Unless both sides stop telling what they believe.

Yet people will still say it is arguing,

As Phart did earlier when he claimed I was tearing him down, All I was doing was giving a counter point to his view. Like I said, it is ok for them to give us their view, but not alright for us, this is the issue..

Thats why I said it will never be resolved, because it will not, Been going on since the beginning of Time. Started with Cain and abel, and will continue until christ returns.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#25,807
#25,807
I agree with you in part.

That is what so many people just cannot accept God does not discard a person who has been justified by faith and has believed in His Son

But I do believe that there are many saved people who do not work. A justified person is justified whether they work or not.

I give no in roads to the workers and those who preach against eternal life presently available in Christ Jesus.

It is grace that brings forth good works, so if they have not been taught in grace properly they may not work, or they may work out of guilt and not faith, thinking they must work.

Work that is not from within our life in Christ will diminish grace.

They have a dead faith, it was once alive but now it is dead, does not mean they have lost salvation, that is not what James was teaching. He was teaching that works will invigorate our faith. Why because faith is belief in action with confidence.

You know I was there once, maybe a few times, been born again since I was twenty, but I can tell you God always finds a way to kick start that faith again when it has stopped working (dead).

James is teaching do not let that happen, but it does, and this is why James teaches it, because it is about a victorious life in Jesus, that is why we work, not for salvation, that is a fait accompli in Jesus, but a steady walk in the grace of Christ is not a fait accompli.

pardon my french




eternally-gratefull said:
I know people who think that people can be saved, and turn from faith and deny Christ and lose salvation.

You will never hear them talk about works, You will never hear them say works are required to maintain or keep salvation. You will never hear them say a person can be saved, and sit and do nothing, Or that lack of works will cause anyone to lose salvation. They will actually agree with myself and others like me, that we are saved by faith, not works.

I will not argue with them, They do not push works, they understand, a person saved will work. They understand a person who has faith will work. so work is snot even in the equation or a question to be asked. They just simply state, A person was saved, changed their mind, and decided that God is not a god at all. and renounce not only verbally but in their heaert that God is not real.

Fran is not one of those people. Fran pushes works, She pushes that people can be saved and not work, She fights against grace, She fights against all that the gospel stands for.

Please do not try to compair these two types.. because the ONLY thing which even makes them resemble each other is they both say a person who in his or her heart there is no god will not get to heaven. And we would all three agree.
Click to expand...
 
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TruthTalk

TruthTalk

Senior Member
#25,808
Jul 17, 2017
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#25,808
eternally-gratefull said:
Yes

Works do not keep us saved, They are a byproduct of salvation, to say that is to teach works, and reject grace.

it does not matter HOW she twists it, it is all the same.
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Hi Eternally-gratefull, a question for you and I respect your biblical understanding; why are we putting our works after salvation as so important for everyone to know? Should we not add some honest humility to our Christian life and let our Boasting be about Jesus Christ, and the 'great things He has done. 'It seems that some very nice God fearing Christians have turned this idea upside down; The Good News is about what He has done, not me. Just a word or two about this would be nice - grateful in Christ :)
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#25,809
Nov 12, 2015
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#25,809
stonesoffire said:
The thought occurred to me today that the works of Holy Spirit do not necessarily mean correct doctrine.
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Oh geez, now you've gone and done it....satan will be very unhappy about this new development. Do you LIKE hornets nests??
:eek::D
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#25,810
#25,810
TruthTalk said:
Hi Eternally-gratefull, a question for you and I respect your biblical understanding; why are we putting our works after salvation as so important for everyone to know? Should we not add some honest humility to our Christian life and let our Boasting be about Jesus Christ, and the 'great things He has done. 'It seems that some very nice God fearing Christians have turned this idea upside down; The Good News is about what He has done, not me. Just a word or two about this would be nice - grateful in Christ :)
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Oh I agree whole heatedly,, We should dnot be boasting of our works, or preaching works, we should be out seeking who to serve, Who needs help. Who needs Gods love so we can take the love God gave us and share it with others.

sadly as paul said there are some who want to pervert the gospel of Christ and make it into no gospel at all.. Otherwise we would not even be discussing works, we would be discussing the lost. How faithful God is, His word, helping others to learn Gods word..

we have to remember we are strangers, and the enemy wants to point us out as people who we are not.. So he will convince people of certain truths which are not truths but half truths,, And we must fight not only for their souls, but for the souls of the lost who may be influenced by these who have been influenced by satan.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#25,811
#25,811
Exactly ... works after salvation is only to display our faith which is hidden from public view.

So it is all about showcasing Christ (humility) not anything about us. Give all glory and honour to Him for that which we do.

Some do this and some do not but there are rewards for those who do

Amen!!!

TruthTalk said:
Hi Eternally-gratefull, a question for you and I respect your biblical understanding; why are we putting our works after salvation as so important for everyone to know? Should we not add some honest humility to our Christian life and let our Boasting be about Jesus Christ, and the 'great things He has done. 'It seems that some very nice God fearing Christians have turned this idea upside down; The Good News is about what He has done, not me. Just a word or two about this would be nice - grateful in Christ :)
Click to expand...
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#25,812
#25,812
UnderGrace said:
Too funny, the first time I was joking when I said I never gossip....like tongue in cheek...actually meaning that is something I do.

I guess I better put more emoticons so that I am clear or not joke!!!
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I see this happen A lot..,folks joke around and then someone comes in who don't get the joke, takes it seriously and starts attacking.

Kind of sad, cuz you get the name calling like "liar" (by the person who doesn't get the joke) and "slanderer" (by the person being attacked for joking around) when this occurs.
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

Senior Member
#25,813
Jul 17, 2017
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#25,813
UnderGrace said:
I agree with you in part.

That is what so many people just cannot accept God does not discard a person who has been justified by faith and has believed in His Son

But I do believe that there are many saved people who do not work. A justified person is justified whether they work or not.

I give no in roads to the workers and those who preach against eternal life presently available in Christ Jesus.

It is grace that brings forth good works, so if they have not been taught in grace properly they may not work, or they may work out of guilt and not faith, thinking they must work.

Work that is not from within our life in Christ will diminish grace.

They have a dead faith, it was once alive but now it is dead, does not mean they have lost salvation, that is not what James was teaching. He was teaching that works will invigorate our faith. Why because faith is belief in action with confidence.

You know I was there once, maybe a few times, been born again since I was twenty, but I can tell you God always finds a way to kick start that faith again when it has stopped working (dead).

James is teaching do not let that happen, but it does, and this is why James teaches it, because it is about a victorious life in Jesus, that is why we work, not for salvation, that is a fait accompli in Jesus, but a steady walk in the grace of Christ is not a
fait accompli.

pardon my french
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fait accompli. - Done deal
I can live with that :)
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#25,814
Feb 10, 2017
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#25,814
Ariel. are you native to Cambodia? I just did a google on Christianity there:

"Cambodians are flocking to the faith, but the rapid growth of the religion has been largely overlooked."

Hallelujah
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#25,815
#25,815
That is true for sure, and quite unnecessary.

Ariel82 said:
I see this happen A lot..,folks joke around and then someone comes in who don't get the joke, takes it seriously and starts attacking.

Kind of sad, cuz you get the name calling like "liar" (by the person who doesn't get the joke) and "slanderer" (by the person being attacked for joking around) when this occurs.
Click to expand...
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#25,816
#25,816
Locutus said:
Ariel. are you native to Cambodia? I just did a google on Christianity there:

"Cambodians are flocking to the faith, but the rapid growth of the religion has been largely overlooked."

Hallelujah
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My family is Cambodian. We emigrated to the US when I was 2 but I have found that I often view the world and things very differently from my peers. At first I thought it was cultural differences, but I come to figure out that it's because of what God has taught me.

We can focus on the bad and the negatives of the world or we can see God and how He is working in each of our lives. We see how people are today but God allows us to see who they can become in Him and we are to encourage each other to grow into the people God would have us become in Him.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#25,817
#25,817
Checkin out my righteousness rags are ya....tsk tsk. Yup mine is dirty but it is okay Jesus gave me a clean one, thank you Jesus!!!

I hate it when I go out in my dirty rags

just playin with ya :D




Stunnedbygrace said:
Hear ye, hear ye, all take note: I just caught UG in a fib! She said she never gossips and then said she sometimes gets pulled in!
I like the confession. It's GOOD for us to admit our fault! I just melt in love for someone who walks in the light of truth instead putting on airs that they aren't like others. They help me by their honest example. They spur me on to more honesty. They help to free me! I catch a whiff of that honest air and want to stay in it! :) I don't WANT to go back to the polluted air of my own self-righteous stink. Dog back to the vomit.
Click to expand...
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#25,818
Nov 12, 2015
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#25,818
eternally-gratefull said:
She can say it until she is blue in the face, It does not make it a reality

As long as she claims works are required to maintain salvation then she does not in reality believe what she said to begin with.

If a lack of works causes loss of salvation, then works are required to keep salvation. It is all the same, a works based. (not grace based) salvation.
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So the problem is that you do not think she really believe what she is saying?
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#25,819
Nov 12, 2015
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#25,819
UnderGrace said:
Checkin out my righteousness rags are ya....tsk tsk. Yup mine is dirty but it is okay Jesus gave me a clean one, thank you Jesus!!!

I hate it when I go out in my dirty rags

just playin with ya :D
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You would have been truly stunned if you heard the loud shout that came out of me when you went from: I never gossip to, I sometimes get pulled in. It was like watching an exciting ball game when the team you like gets a score.

I like to see my team get past the fake out and score. It was a blessing to watch that same struggle of the flesh that I am in be won in you by our Lord. How quickly He can take us from walking in darkness on something to walking in the truth in it! And how addicting walking in the truth begins to become for us after we see a few small victories He gives us!

Keep walking in the light!
 
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Ariel82

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#25,820
#25,820
A faith that does not produce good fruit or works is a dead faith...,true or false?
 
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