Not By Works

[PHart]

And what does the oil represent?
Works?
No, absolutely not!
The oil is representative of the Holy Spirit!

That's right.

And we can tell who has oil in their lamp and is prepared to meet the Bridegroom by whether they live in a lifestyle of disobedience/unbelief or not. But so many in the church think disobedience goes along quite well with, and has no relation to, having the Holy Spirit inside of you. John calls that person who 'believes' and lives that A LIAR. That's how works have to accompany salvation in order for you to be saved at the Judgment.

Works don't literally earn you salvation. But rather, work is the expected and obligatory sign the the faith you claim exists in you really is there. Jesus won't be listening to these kinds of arguments being leveled here in this forum for works-less faith at the Judgment. You either can prove by your life that you love him (remember love is action, John said), or you can't prove it. Like any Just Judge, Christ will condemn or acquit you on the basis of EVIDENCE (see Matthew 25). Don't get to the Judgment having followed a deceitful doctrine of works-less faith. You'll be sorely sorry you did on that Day if you do. Jesus warned us ahead of time.

 

[FranC]

no pride here..

LOL

Oh lighten up!

You're soooooo serious.

EXCEPT FOR WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE SERIOUS ABOUT.

 

[PHart]

LOL

Oh lighten up!

You're soooooo serious.

EXCEPT FOR WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE SERIOUS ABOUT.

It's ironic, isn't it.

 

[FranC]

I do not see how you can not see it

The people of matt 7 used their works as a basis for why Jesus should let them in, If they had faith in God and his work, they never would have boasted of their work, they would have boasted in Christs work.

They were not let in because they trusted in their deeds to make them righteous, and rejected the grace of God.

If you plan on standing before gOd and using your works as the reason God should let you in, or to defend yourself as to why God should let you in you will be in for the same answer.

Depart. FOR I NEVER KNEW YOU.

These people were NEVER SAVED, proven by the fact JESUS NEVER KNEW THEM, he could not say that to a person who was saved, then lost it. For he would be a liar.

Do the no-workers for have a problem with English?

WHEN did PHart EVER say that our works are getting us saved?

We ALL maintain that FAITH saves.

Seems easy. Maybe people hear what they want to hear and not what is being said...

 

[UnderGrace]

I sleep perfectly well.

If you are not sleeping well try eliminating gluten from your diet.

Welcome to the club .
Intelligent persons don't sleep well...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then why do you people keep tearing us down?

so when you correct us, it is correction, but when w correct you it is tearing you down,

that is being dishonest my fr no,

Out one side of your mouths you say that truly saved people have works because they are born again (which we are saying). But then you say out the other side of your mouth those works aren't necessary because they are born again. You can't have it both ways.

are you serious, if Gods people WILL work, why are workers necessary? If all of Gods peopl obey why is obedience necessary? Since it ALL comes from faith, why is it faith plus works? Can you not comprehend that fact that saying works are a given is much different than saying works are required, making works required places th focus and responsibility and th credit on the person, saying they are a given keeps the focus on god,

and thats ATS a bad thing?

We're simply saying the first argument: Born again people, by virtue of being born again, will have works to accompany their salvation. You 'seem' to agree, but then you turn right around and negate that by saying by virtue of being born again you don't have to have works. Worst of all, you people ignore the plain, understandable words of the Bible that explain how it is that you must have works to accompany your faith if you expect that faith to usher you into the kingdom on the Day of Wrath.

I blame the church for your duplicitous confusion. The church is passing this confusing deceitful teaching down generation to generation in it's seminaries. But I blame the individual member of the church themselves for not bowing to what the Bible actually says the truth is about this matter of works in salvation. It's disheartening to see people not give in to the word simply because they can't bear to be corrected.

if this were true, you would not fight against those who preach gods people will have works, thus they are eternally secure, instead you say peopl can lack works, and due to this lack of works, lose salvation, which again puts the responsibility and focus on the man, so he may boast, and not God,

 

[NoNameMcgee]

2 Timothy 3:16

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”

Proverbs 12:1

“Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.”

 

[FranC]

john 3, john 6, how many more do you want?

PLEASE BE NICE AND POST THE SCRIPTURE THAT DOES NOT EXIST.

Thanks.

 

[UnderGrace]

So is Faith a work then?

Do the no-workers for have a problem with English?

WHEN did PHart EVER say that our works are getting us saved?

We ALL maintain that FAITH saves.

Seems easy. Maybe people hear what they want to hear and not what is being said...

 

[FranC]

I sleep perfectly well.

If you are not sleeping well try eliminating gluten from your diet.

Eliminate gluten!!!

Are you serious???

I live in ITALY.

The gluten capital of the world.

 

[FranC]

So is Faith a work then?

Haven't lost any sleep over the answer.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

YOU.

Since you are not WILLING to say that WORKS ARE NECESSARY as Jesus said.

BTW, what are YOU here for ?
To teach that we are NOT to do what Jesus preached?

me? I say works are a given all Gods people work, all false children will not,

so your wrong
your a liar
you have falsely accused me

you teach work are required offering men the ability to boast of their works, because they saved themselves.


I will never say works are required because that would mean I am attempting to save myself by my works. Which makes my works works of the flesh not of the spirit.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Who do you follow?

THE FIRST LIE IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN

Gen 3:1,

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?


Gen 3:2-3,
And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.


Gen 3:4,
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Gen 3:5,
God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Key points from scripture:


· [FONT=&quot]The original deceiver the devil (v1)[/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]Eve told the serpent that God commanded them not to touch or eat the fruit lest they die (v 2-3)[/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]The serpent lied to Eve saying that you will not surely die if you don’t do what God asks. You will be like God knowing good and evil (v 4-5).[/FONT]

Putting it all together:

The fall of mankind was from the original lie (John 8:44; 1John 3:8). When God commanded mankind to follow him lest they die. The Devil’’s original lie was that you can break God’s Law and not die. The teachings of many false religions today is the same as the original lie. If God asks us to do something and you do not do it…. “Ye shall not surely die” (Gen 3:4). But God's Word says we will die if we break God's Law (Rom 6:23). Who do we follow God or man?


God bless you all

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God forbid my IPAD is auto correcting me again.. I hope people understand what I tried to say in a few posts.. GRR..lol

 

[FranC]

Here's a link to a resource that shows how 'disobedience' and 'unbelief' are represented in scripture using the exact same Greek word: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G543&t=KJV

Disobedience and unbelief are intrinsically intertwined. That's why works must accompany salvation for you to be saved on the Day of Judgment. The one who says they are a believer in Christ, yet lives in disobedience is quite frankly and to the point, a liar. (I didn't say it, John said it.) And they will be lost on the Day of Judgment despite any confession of knowing Christ that they might make now, or on that Day. We've been warned, folks. The wise virgin will heed the warning and be prepared to meet the Bridegroom when He returns. The wise virgins keep their lamps filled with oil to the very end.

I know this PHart.
Believe and Obey come from the same source word.

Just because I don't like going to the Greek, doesn't mean I know nothing about.

THIS IS WHY NO ONE HERE WILL EVERY EXPLAIN WHAT BELIEVE MEANS....

Although they'll go to the Greek for any other word that they think will be of help to them ...
Even if NOTHING comes of it because the translators did a pretty good job.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL

Oh lighten up!

You're soooooo serious.

EXCEPT FOR WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE SERIOUS ABOUT.

I am serious about everything.. Especially the gospel of Christ.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Sure, I could have. So what did you mean?

Same as you...instead of putting your own thoughts into my post and stating that is what I mean. So neither of us are acting right.

I just said you were wrong.

I agree. Both of you do it to each other. The one who can see it is blessed because they didn't see it with blind human eyes. The one who sees it and confesses it is the one walking in the light and giving an honest assessment of themselves.

Walking in the light doesn't mean being perfect. Walking in the light means seeing clearly and giving a truthful assessment of things. From that little bit of honesty we ask for what we need, He makes the necessary changes to bring about our renewal, and then we are ready to bear more of the beams of love. We didn't make ourselves able to bear more of them because we can try for decades to obey because we know we should and find years later that we were stupidly spinning our wheels (been there.)

Fran is not without some honesty too because she answered Rosemary and said: yes, I wish we could act this way toward each other, ME INCLUDED.

Stones just took you another part of the way from that hunger for righteousness fran earlier expressed when she said, neither of us is acting right.

Going by my own experience, the problem for me is usually a lack of love. But we have to see it first and admit it, confess it. Because a man who thinks he doesn't need help is not going to do the very simple work of ASKING anyone for what he lacks. He will say, I am rich and in need of nothing instead of admitting his poverty of spirit and pleading for what he has need of.

You are not blessed because you ARE poor in spirit. You are blessed because you can SEE and ADMIT that you are, because that blessing of seeing the truth IS a blessing from God.

Stones, it is such freedom to walk this way, in the light, instead of in defense of ourself as if we are not just like our fellow in poverty. A man said, you never know what a burden your "reputation" is until you have the freedom of having no reputation to protect.

We won't have any victory until we ask for what we see we lack. All will just go on in the same manner. It's the one who sees and admits their poverty and weakness who will go away justified. And since that one was true and honest with a little, he will be given more.

I'm very encouraged and edified by your example of honesty here Stones. And by frans earlier lament and hunger for righteousness. You are both in poverty/lack of spirit - we all are - but His strength is made perfect in our weakness, so we should glory in our weakness like baby birds in a nest crying out for what they need and cannot supply for themselves.

It is strange to go from defense of self to glorying in our weakness but once we begin to see the riches and wealth of spirit He is willing to give us freely if we will walk in the light of truth about ourselves, we won't want to go back or shrink from the light of truth ever again! Who would have ever thought that the way to strength is through glorying in our weakness and poverty?? It's not the way the world works!

Paul was onto a great discovery when he said, therefore I will glory in my weakness! He had found the way up was by going down!

 

[UnderGrace]

Well I am Italian, so I know all about pasta, I have been to Italy ....I had no pasta while I was there.

It is strongly connected for many. Present day wheat is a health hazard. Just sayin.

Eliminate gluten!!!

Are you serious???

I live in ITALY.

The gluten capital of the world.

 

[FranC]

God forbid my IPAD is auto correcting me again.. I hope people understand what I tried to say in a few posts.. GRR..lol

LOL

Can't you even control your iPad??
That's what you get for buying an Apple.

Mine cost $99.
It doesn't auto-correct!

 

[FranC]

Well I am Italian, so I know all about pasta, I have been to Italy ....I had no pasta while I was there.

It is strongly connected for many. Present day wheat is a health hazard. Just sayin.

You were in Italy and didn't have pasta?

WHAT DID YOU EAT !!!!!!!!!!

JK